Cold Steel Brute 7aa flashlight

[bykfixer]

So an alkaline says 1.5 volts but under load it generally begins at 1.2 and falls from there.

As you can see in the chart (in your link) the lithium can be at 1.4 volts for 3 hours.

So that's 9.8 volts pretty steady versus 8.4 and falling.

You can probably make a tightly wrapped paper sleeve and load/unload it like a magazine if worried about leaks.

Eneloops begin at about 1.0 volts but hold that steady so dimming will be less noticed. Run time eneloop vs alkaline? Got me. If opt for high demand uses from an eneloop I buy eneloop pro.

 

[aznsx]

So an alkaline says 1.5 volts but under load it generally begins at 1.2 and falls from there.

As you can see in the chart (in your link) the lithium can be at 1.4 volts for 3 hours.

So that's 9.8 volts pretty steady versus 8.4 and falling.

You can probably make a tightly wrapped paper sleeve and load/unload it like a magazine if worried about leaks.

Eneloops begin at about 1.0 volts but hold that steady so dimming will be less noticed. Run time eneloop vs alkaline? Got me. If opt for high demand uses from an eneloop I buy eneloop pro.

Well, I don't mean sort of 'ready', I mean really ready - to grab and go - as in 'right now'. No un-screwing / screwing tailcaps, etc. Theoretically, I don't have any time to sacrifice, but also don't want to compromise any of the modest output of the light.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but sounds like you think the risk w/ 7 L91s might be significant(?), which I was suspecting it might be. I think the Eneloop Pros in it now may be under-performing vs alkaline (?), but don't have any alkalines to test with; not to use, but to test with. Frankly, I'd rather not even waste any money buying any.

I have plenty of L91s. Do you think 6x L91s and a single cell spacer is a viable solution? It sounds like it might be ideal for me, if that would yield similar performance to the dreaded alkalines, but would rather not be frying any of the OE bulbs I have.

The output of this light is not such that I want to compromise / lower it. I'd rather not retrofit it to LED, but also don't want to degrade stock performance. There's not enough output for me to be willing to degrade / sacrifice any of it. I'm after max (full stock) performance, with max reliability here, and ready to rock in an instant. Remember - mine's a 'user', and when I grab it, things may not be going well.

Asked another way: What would you do if your requirements matched mine?

EDIT: I don't know the over-voltage tolerance of the bulbs in the first place. Battery-powered devices are not typically designed with much if any over-voltage tolerance, just under-voltage, so I assume it is minimal. Also, run time is not a high priority.

 

[hsa]

Just as a reminder, the L91s start off at a little over 1.8volt. Don't know if that helps.

 

[xxo]

Who made these for CS? Are there any markings?

 

[bykfixer]

It probably won't poof the bulb right away to run it at a bit over 9 volts but it would likely decrease bulb lifespan by over driving it. Kinda like using a 3 cell bulb with 4 alkalines.

If you have a nice stock of 7 cell bulbs no biggy.

Here's my home made cartridge.
I ran 'lectrical tape down each side and it slides in/out no problem.

 

[aznsx]

Who made these for CS? Are there any markings?

Absolutely no markings that I'm aware of. As with some other of CS/SP products, particularly the more 'edgy' ones (no pun) they appear to be 'sterile'. Manufacturer / fabricator unknown to me.

 

[xxo]

Absolutely no markings that I'm aware of. As with some other of CS/SP products, particularly the more 'edgy' ones (no pun) they appear to be 'sterile'. Manufacturer / fabricator unknown to me.

Interesting.

What kind of packaging did they come in? Were there any instructions?

 

[glockboy]

Oh do tell please.
Is that a modified P60 type module?

It's a P60 type module 3v-18v Solarforce. I brought it over 10 years ago.
I ask mine friend with the lathe machine to make the drop in fit.

 

[bykfixer]

Well, I don't mean sort of 'ready', I mean really ready - to grab and go - as in 'right now'. No un-screwing / screwing tailcaps, etc. Theoretically, I don't have any time to sacrifice, but also don't want to compromise any of the modest output of the light.

<snip>

Asked another way: What would you do if your requirements matched mine?

If I were in your shoes I'd stick with the eneloop pro cells you use now vs L91's or alkalines. It may start out not quite as bright as alkalines or a set of lithiums.
However the alkalines will soon sag enough to put out less than the pro's do since they hold a constant 1.0, and the L91's may lessen the lifespan enough that when you've finished playing with the light and end up needing it "poof".

Now me? I'd keep an Elzetta Alpha ready as the blinder and if I need "whap" mode the Brute would go into action.

 

[chillinn]

Eneloops begin at about 1.0 volts

FYI, not even at 10A for the first hour of discharge. Eneloop might not be ideal for alkaline-designed incans due to less voltage sag and overdriving rather than underdriving. I think HKJ's tests start with a cell hot off the charger. Well-rested Eneloop sit around 1.44V-1.34V, depending how many hours or days since charge termination. As always, YMMV

 

[aznsx]

Interesting.

What kind of packaging did they come in? Were there any instructions?

Keep in mind this was 2 different packages, from 2 different vendors, at 2 different times, 30 years ago.

To summarize the essence of what I recall, other than being happy to see the lights, is that they were shipped with no product-specific (or vendor-specific) packaging of any type, and included no information on the lights and nothing on paper except the order invoice / receipt. Even the CS-sourced one(s) had no typical CS silver on black 'Cold Steel' box with an info sticker on it like many of their other products. I recall that most, if not all were simply wrapped with 1-2 layers of that pink, poly foam(?), dense, thin, sheet-type packing material and taped to keep it on. These were shipped in nondescript standard shipping boxes appropriate for the length of the light, with standard packing material.

So, if these turn up somewhere, they will come with absolutely nothing else product specific. If you do find that mythical crate of them languishing in the back of a connex somewhere, they may not be easy to spot, except perhaps for that pink foam wrap, if that was perhaps applied by the actual source manufacturer. That well could perhaps be the case, as that's what I would likely use / do for surface protection if I manufactured them.

 

[aznsx]

If I were in your shoes I'd stick with the eneloop pro cells you use now vs L91's or allalines. It may start out not quite as bright as alkalines or a set of lithiums.
However the alkalines will soon sag enough to put out less than the pro's do since they hold a constant 1.0, and the L91's may lessen the lifespan enough that when you've finished playing with the light and end up needing it "poof".

Now me? I'd keep an Elzetta Alpha ready as the blinder and if I need "whap" mode the Brute would go into action.

Thanx. I appreciate your thoughts / opinions, as always.

I've been looking at some graphs 'til I got cross-eyed, and I'll look at them some more later and do some more analysis. These graphs, and others linked or otherwise on this site are useful, and some have data difficult to find anywhere else (as I'm sure you know). Try finding Eneloop discharge graphs. I don't think their manufacturers even publish that (nor max continuous or pulsed current specs either from what I've been able to find).

Comparison of AA battery chemistry

Sure, the info is getting a bit old (like me), but is still fairly valid for comparative data on the different chemistries, even if less so for absolute data on each, which may well have changed with product revisions. Like me, it's old but better than nothing.

I will say that leaving Eneloops in mine would provide one clear advantage. This Summer at the BOA (Brute Owners Assoc.) annual picnic, their higher weight would give me a real leg up in the watermelon smashing contest vs the alkaline users, and the L91 users wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[dc38]

I will say that leaving Eneloops in mine would provide one clear advantage. This Summer at the BOA (Brute Owners Assoc.) annual picnic, their higher weight would give me a real leg up in the watermelon smashing contest vs the alkaline users, and the L91 users wouldn't stand a chance.

I'd stick with primaries, NiMH don't like physical abuse...

 

[aznsx]

I'd stick with primaries, NiMH don't like physical abuse...

I might need to consider that - especially if the watermelon smashing contest is run under ANSI FL1 regs, under which the light must still function at the end of the contest!!

 

[xxo]

Keep in mind this was 2 different packages, from 2 different vendors, at 2 different times, 30 years ago.

To summarize the essence of what I recall, other than being happy to see the lights, is that they were shipped with no product-specific (or vendor-specific) packaging of any type, and included no information on the lights and nothing on paper except the order invoice / receipt. Even the CS-sourced one(s) had no typical CS silver on black 'Cold Steel' box with an info sticker on it like many of their other products. I recall that most, if not all were simply wrapped with 1-2 layers of that pink, poly foam(?), dense, thin, sheet-type packing material and taped to keep it on. These were shipped in nondescript standard shipping boxes appropriate for the length of the light, with standard packing material.

So, if these turn up somewhere, they will come with absolutely nothing else product specific. If you do find that mythical crate of them languishing in the back of a connex somewhere, they may not be easy to spot, except perhaps for that pink foam wrap, if that was perhaps applied by the actual source manufacturer. That well could perhaps be the case, as that's what I would likely use / do for surface protection if I manufactured them.

Lack of some sort of item specific packaging is unusual for Cold Steel - even the $6 machete I bought from them had a sticker and a poly bag with a specific cardboard hanger. I'm sure there's a interesting back story on these lights!

 

[aznsx]

Lack of some sort of item specific packaging is unusual for Cold Steel - even the $6 machete I bought from them had a sticker and a poly bag with a specific cardboard hanger. I'm sure there's a interesting back story on these lights!

Well, a machete isn't really as "edgy" as these lights, which were edgy enough that USC wouldn't even ship them to CA, etc. Examples of other edgy products they sold are things like what was essentially a duplicate of their popular regular Tanto fixed-blade, but was constructed entirely of glass-filled Zytel (nylon variant), and which were extremely strong and capable, although obviously being completely non-metallic - along with some 'delta darts', etc. made of the same material. Those are other examples of 'edgy' products, and they sold a few such things; all 'sterile' and with no documentation / packaging as I recall.

 

[xxo]

California law may be the answer. If these lights were considered to be batons, CS couldn't sell them in CA where they are based. CS had a special warehouse in Texas to sell things that were illegal in CA, but that was a decade or so after these lights were made.

 

[dc38]

I might need to consider that - especially if the watermelon smashing contest is run under ANSI FL1 regs, under which the light must still function at the end of the contest!!

Realistically, how tight is the tolerance? Do the batteries rattle?

 

[hsa]

@aznsx here is a graph that lets you plug in different batts and amperages and compare them. You are probably going to have to get a baseline with alkalines and figure out the amp draw with batteries it was designed for.

Battery test-review 18650 comparator

 

[aznsx]

California law may be the answer. If these lights were considered to be batons, CS couldn't sell them in CA where they are based. CS had a special warehouse in Texas to sell things that were illegal in CA, but that was a decade or so after these lights were made.

There's no mystery in this. This gets at precisely the 'edge' I keep referring to; the 'edge' of legality. Other poly-cell lights such as Mag and Kel sold were designed with a priority on flashlight performance (and quality/ruggedness) given the battery ('D' cells, etc.) and emitter technology (incan) of the day, while also being very useful as a self-defense tool in some situations. D. Keller has commented that his move from 'sprinkler pipe' to a lighter and more compliant housing was Edit: specifically in large part to move his products a little further away from that edge. The Brute made no such concessions, and was clearly and brazenly designed to the opposite of the above priorities, which made it much more edgy than even those other lights. Its dimensions based on the choice of AA cells, the thickness of the housing, etc. all underscore those priorities. It was clearly designed to be a defensive weapon first, and a high performance flashlight second. It was no doubt considered by some to be 'over the edge' of legality in CA (no surprise), but I suspect it would also be considered 'over the edge' in other jurisdictions as well. Again, no mysteries here. EDIT: There may have additional locations to which USC would not ship those lights. I only recall CA was one (perhaps the main / only one), and that TN was not on such a list (as that's where I had my order from them shipped to). I suspect there could have been other states (probably in the N.E. U.S.) on the banned list too, I just can't recall.