How do you put Shoppe components together?

[TigerhawkT3]

I've been wanting to try out some LED modding (only worked with hotwires so far), but I'm confused by what's required. If I want to make, say, a bike light, what would I need to buy? I can (mostly) figure out the emitter and driver, but what else? Where do I stick the emitter, and how does it connect to the driver? If I want to use a Downboy, I'm not supposed to use the "Connector and Bare Emitter Board," so what do I mount the emitter on, and how does it connect to the Downboy? Where do I mount the reflector (and which one should I choose)? I'm getting the impression that Shoppe components are intended to be installed in existing lights, not to make full assemblies from scratch. It would just be so cool if I could build my own light from the ground up.

So, where do I start?

 

[nein166]

Well if you want to make a bike light you

I've been wanting to try out some LED modding (only worked with hotwires so far), but I'm confused by what's required. If I want to make, say, a bike light, what would I need to buy?

Well if your modding an existing light;
LEDs
Driver board (depends on power supply)
Optics/Reflector (an SSC P4 may work with stock reflector)

Then you'll need to mod the light to hold these components.
Consider heatsinking the LED, wire them together.

I'm not supposed to use the "Connector and Bare Emitter Board," so what do I mount the emitter on, and how does it connect to the Downboy?

In a sandwich configuration this is true. The included pins connect the emitter board to the driver board and supply the LED with +/- power paths.
However in a custom setup you can just run wires between them.

I'm getting the impression that Shoppe components are intended to be installed in existing lights, not to make full assemblies from scratch. It would just be so cool if I could build my own light from the ground up.

So, where do I start?

Although the components are made for certain applications in existing lights,
Everything can be MODDED!

 

[TigerhawkT3]

So, I could just AA a Downboy and an XR-E to a pair of finned Al or Cu blocks (like CPU heatsinks or something), epoxy an IMS reflector over the emitter and a lens over the reflector, and wire it all up? I can hardly believe it would be that easy...

And what about those sense resistors - can I order the reistors separately and stick them on myself, or are they so unbelievably minuscule that I would be better off having the Shoppe install them for me?

Do smaller reflectors mean a wider hotspot, or vice versa? I was hoping for a beam like the FT-01XSE P4, which has a wider hotspot surrounded by a Cree ring shadow.

EDIT: And will the MCPCB650 isolate the emitter? Do I need to electrically isolate the driver as well?

 

[yellow]

parts from the Shoppe

You asked, and thus You get these large pics here

what can I type? :thinking:

1. IMS and cree is a No-go (see pic, rings much worse in reality than in pic).
2. with the McR-XRs there are NO RINGS at all
3. the larger the reflector, the more focused it is (but not this much of a diff.)
4. the 16 and 17 mm are easy to install, the 19 has to be centered carefully and the 27 mm is a pita to place
5. even if not showing good here, the optic makes almost no spill (at least no useable one), output seems dimmer also
6. You can mod most any board with the tiny sense resistors (best to do that, if the one You would like is not available)
7. every time I tried a Downboy, the mod did not work, dont ask me why. BBs and MMs work great (with point 8)
8. the "largest" resistor onto the board (if a connection fails, baord does not get cooked), wires to outside switch with "smaller" values to get several levels
9. complete light --> easiest: maglite head, three / quad cree heatsink for maghead, quad emitters (connected in series), Shark board (with outside switch), if money does not count: McR-XR reflectors else Cree optics, battpack voltage under the emitter vf (shark is a step up)

PS: there are often some sinks or emitters together with a number of reflectors

vertical black stripes coming from the rubber band holding the reflectors in place temporarily

another pic (copied out of a larger one) with 2 Crees, left optic, right McR-XR 19mm, no rings at all
(both same current! In reality the reflector seems brighter and a large spill ring around the hotspot, that the optic does not have)

an older pic with some optics and flashlights as well,
if You want to compare focusing and such
(cam to automatic, so NO brightness comparison)

 

[yellow]

but You can also do anything from scratch, why not?

ex.: quad cree bikelight (in the build):
should fit into a cheap D-cell light-head I have here,
2 McR-XR 16 for side (placed to shine down and outside over cross)
1 McR-XR 19 for normal middle (facing 2 deg. down)
1 McR-XR 27 for high speed
(everything running on a dynamo with automatic switching 2-3-4 emitters)
emitters placed on a massive heatsink (with option to active passive cooling with air moving in the 4 channels shown)

thats the state i'm in (because of probs with placing the 27 mm reflector)

 

[AndyTiedye]

Adding to Bike Light Thread Links.

You may find some useful information on building bike lights at the above link.

 

[nein166]

So, I could just AA a Downboy and an XR-E to a pair of finned Al or Cu blocks (like CPU heatsinks or something), epoxy an IMS reflector over the emitter and a lens over the reflector, and wire it all up? I can hardly believe it would be that easy...

Yes Downboy and XR-E on heatsinks wired properly will work.
As yellow said You need a reflector specific for XR-E's
Seoul P4's will work with IMS reflectors but I think XR-E's are better with the right reflector.

And what about those sense resistors - can I order the reistors separately and stick them on myself, or are they so unbelievably minuscule that I would be better off having the Shoppe install them for me?

Buy them pre-soldered from the shop, if you haven't soldered SMT components don't try it out on an expensive converter.

EDIT: And will the MCPCB650 isolate the emitter? Do I need to electrically isolate the driver as well?

If you buy the XR-E on an MetalCorePrintedCircuitBoard it will be Isolated.
You don't want to put an emitter on one yourself. Its like putting a soufle (pardon my bad french) in an EasyBake oven.
If you put the driver on an anodized heatsink(CPU) theres no worries. Check the heatsink for conductivty.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

These are such awesome responses! :thumbsup:

I thought about using a Shark and 4 XR-Es, but the complexity (and cost! :sweat: ) started to snowball. Plus, I'm just not comfortable with wiring LEDs in series (example - I was probably missing something there, or several things).

I think I'll go with a Downboy and a single XR-E. It sounds like the McR17XR would be a decent reflector for a wide spot. As for the IMS reflectors, I really don't care if there'd be rings, just as long as there was a smooth hotspot wide enough to light up an entire bike lane or sidewalk.

So, how does a Cree/MCPCB fit under a reflector for proper focus?

How do you mix and use AA epoxy?

My "plan" right now is to have a 12V SLA powering a Downboy1500 (.05 and .10 ohm sense resistors installed by the Shoppe) powering a P3/P4 XR-E on an MCPCB, focused by a McR17XR (or whatever reflector would give my desired hotspot profile for less money), with the emitter and converter AAed to Zalman fanless aluminum Northbridge CPU heatsinks. I thought I could make a crude body by using aluminum tubing (0.745" ID, 0.875" OD) and popping it on the emitter heatsink, surrounding the reflector. A 22.5mm mineral glass window could then be epoxied to the tubing, environmentally sealing the LE. If necessary, I could make a similar "body" to protect the Downboy.

Now my only problem is mounting these components to a bicycle. I checked out some of the links in the bike light master thread (thanks, Andy!), but the mounts are mostly for standard tubular lights. Ideally, I'd like something that can hold the setup securely, allows aiming, doesn't require permanent alterations, and can be easily detached and reattached for storage or when locking the bike to a post.

 

[yellow]

just the very basic things:

the 17 and 16 mm reflectors feature a "seat".
Just with placing it over the emitter, its perfectly located. Glue in with (as much less as possible) epoxy glue. By now I have a small piece of foam put over the metal ring of the emitter (large enough to touch the base and the reflector), give a very tiny bit of epoxy inside the seat thing, move the reflector in place and turn it to have the glue be around the led (carefully not to get too much of it into the reflector, does not really hurt beam, but You see it when looking into the finished "product"). Have it cured and then fill the foam with a 2nd batch of epoxy.

the IMS (20 mm works best) will need a lot of "machining" to make it fit onto a cree --> bore out the emitter hole, cutting the legs an cutting the room between legs and hole for that metal ring.
Did this with a Dremel, but ...

I tend to use heat transfer paste onto the slug (or the back side of the star). Greatly increases heat transfer AND fixes the led a bit. Press in place and check again, then use normal 2-component epoxy glue around to finalize placing.
AA is not better in heat transfer than epoxy glue, when both are applied thin, but mosts more.

PS: doesnt hurt to have some "heavy" metal part on the emitter or the reflector when the glue cures
PPS: NO superglue --> tends to brun on higher temp and will make emitter and reflector/optic bad

mounting: "we" all here use this one:
Cateye H-24 G
oder-No. #533-8605
check if the mounting plate is included there, It should be the bar clamp (which is movable to the sides a bit) and the mounting/quick release plate

as to tubing, I dont have too much of "hands" in machining, and just some files and a drill press, so I now follow this route:
look for a cheap flashlight with a head that is removable and can be opened from the front also. Measure things up and make round sink as thick as possible to press fit into (if not enough space, make more room in the inner part of the head).
Mount emitters and reflectors, solder circuit into behind the sink, then have the sink be put into the head and glue it in place also (should make contact to the head at the sides and at the "seat").
Make some end cap where connectors and switches are mounted and put it in place.
Looks very professional
Having access to a mill would be a bonus, for this idea or for making totally individual housings.

 

[nein166]

My "plan" right now is to have a 12V SLA powering a Downboy1500 (.05 and .10 ohm sense resistors installed by the Shoppe) powering a P3/P4 XR-E on an MCPCB

Be advised that 1500ma is a lot to drive a Cree at. 1000ma is the maximum advised current, above this you will be overdriving the led and possibly overheat/burnout the led.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

I know it's a lot, but I thought that as it would be on a bike with the cold night air blowing past the heatsink, it would be okay. Should I stick to a maximum of 1A for all applications?

 

[nein166]

I know it's a lot, but I thought that as it would be on a bike with the cold night air blowing past the heatsink, it would be okay. Should I stick to a maximum of 1A for all applications?

You should probably keep to a max of 1200ma, there is a point where you won't see much difference in output. Its probably ok with the heatsink with wind blowing across, but it could burn too.

 

[AndyTiedye]

There won't be much wind blowing past the heatsink while you're grinding your way up a hill.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Me? Grind up a hill? "Fat" chance. :laughing: If I start really slowing down, I can either turn off the light (good excuse to rest) or sprinkle some water over the heatsink fins.

It looks like the only configurations in the 1A+ range are 1A and 1.5A. The smallest resistor is .05ohm, and the next step up is 0.10ohm, with nothing in between. Digi-Key has surface mount SMD/SMT 0.082ohm, 0.125W resistors. Is it possible to practice with a few of these things and get good enough at it, or is it like trying to solder a speck of dust? If it's really not even worth trying, I'll probably just go for the DB1000.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

So, is it reasonable to think that I could install my own sense resistors? I recently repaired an E0 circuit board, and it wasn't that bad. Does anyone have advice regarding soldering on those tiny resistors?

 

[yellow]

I put a small solder blob on one side of the pads, put the resitor on, while holding it in place with some stick, heat the blob (the resistor moves noticeably when the solder is hot enough), then heat the other side of the pad and put solder in there also
just like any normal sized component
(if any side does not look nice, I heat it again + add a bit of new solder)

 

[TigerhawkT3]

Cool... That doesn't sound too bad at all. I think I'll start ordering components soon.

 

[Greta]

Originally posted by TigerhawkT3 on 6-2-07 HERE.

Now that CPFMP is letting me post, it's update time!

I ordered the following from the Shoppe:
-SOB750
-Connectors/emitter board
-XR-E P4
-McR17XR
-AA epoxy
-glass window

I also ordered some steel hardware for a body, but I ordered it to fit the glass window (22mm instead of 17), but now that everything's here, I think I'm going to order narrower hardware.

I've been playing around with the components, and I'm a bit confused as to how the emitter is attached to the emitter board. I'll attach one of the emitter's terminals to the main base, and that will go to one of the connectors, which goes to the converter. Do I need a very small wire to attach the emitter's other terminal directly to the other connector?

Also, the black rectangular SMD component right above the LED- connector holes blocks the connector from going down all the way, resulting in a lopsided sandwich module.

Of course, all this may be moot, as I'll see Mr. and Mrs. SS at the BBQ tomorrow (w00t! ).

 

[Greta]

Originally posted by TigerhawkT3 on 6-16-07 HERE.

Well, I fried it. After sloppily soldering everything together, I hooked it up to a 12V SLA and it lit - wonderful. Then, when I tried to put the McR17XR onto it, the reflector shorted my connections and , magic smoke, and there goes a $70 project. Now I know why I prefer hotwires: they're cheaper and bigger. :scowl: