Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrier...

[LEDAdd1ct]

Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrier...

While there are a number of threads detailing power sources for six volt lanterns, I did not not see a recent, comprehensive guide comparing a high capacity 1.5v alkaline "D" cell with published specifications and a high quality alkaline quad "F" cell, wired in series to produce a 6.0v source. With the availability of a battery carrier to convert four alkaline "D" cells into a 6.0v alkaline battery, I thought I would run the numbers and publish the results.

According to this page here (go all the way to the bottom and then scroll up), four alkaline "F" cells in series, which comprise the Rayovac 808 6v lantern battery, have 26000mAh capacity.

Google "Rayovac 808A" and check out the first link to buy it straight from Spectrum Brands (Rayovac) at an excellent price.

However, this PDF spec sheet here indicates the Energizer EN95 "D" cell has 20500mAh at 25mA discharge current.

So, what to do?

A Rayovac 808 battery with four alkaline "F" cells in series, or, a four cell holder which will convert four alkaline "D" cells into a 6.0v battery?

1) The datasheet here for the Energizer EN95 specifies that the 20500mAh capacity is at 25mA discharge current.

2) I can find no information as to what discharge current the figure of 26000mAh capacity for a single alkaline "F" cell came from.

However, even without that figure, we can do some guesswork as to which is the better deal:

1) Energizer EN95 alkaline "D" cell is rated from 0°F to 130°F, while the Rayovac 808 quad alkaline "F" cell battery is rated from -20°F to 130°F.

Score one for the Rayovac.

2) Both the Rayovac 808 and the Energizer EN95 are rated at a seven year shelf life.

Tie.

3) The Rayovac is supposed to be sealed against leakage.

I'll believe it when I see it.

I'll call it a tentative tie.

4) Convenience—I'll call this one a "no contest." You can get alkaline "D" cells anywhere. Unless you are absolutely certain you are buying a 6v lantern battery with four alkaline "F" cells in series, the EN95 wins.

Score for Energizer.

5) Price

Spectrum Brands (Rayovac) sells the 6v quad "F" cell battery for $7.00. If you buy three, with shipping, it comes out to about ten dollars a battery.

A 12 pack of Energizer EN95 cells can be had for about one dollar per cell, delivered.

So:

a) One 6.0v battery for $10.00.

vs.

b) Three sets of four for $12.00.

Score for Energizer (or quad 1.5v alkaline "D" cell equivalent).

6) Capacity

While I could not find a published test current for the Rayovac 808 quad "F" cell battery, I did find published discharge current specs for the Energizer 529, the Energizer alkaline quad "F" cell equivalent to the Rayovac 808.

Here we go:

Link to Energizer EN95 Alkaline "D" Cell PDF with Discharge Test at 25mA

Link to Energizer 529 Alkaline quad "F" Cell Battery PDF with Discharge Test at 25mA

Link to Single Energizer 3-361 Alkaline "F" Cell PDF

In terms of pure capacity, the quad alkaline "F" cell, either Rayovac 808 or Energizer 529, wins.

My Opinion:


It is my opinion that the Energizer EN95 in a quad-cell carrier is a better deal than the Rayovac 808 quad alkaline "F" cell battery or the Energizer 529 quad alkaline "F" cell battery for the following reasons:

1) Cost for a 6.0v power source
2) Cells can be separated into multiple applications if needed

There are two reasons I can see to get the Rayovac 808 or Energizer 529 instead:

1) If those extra six amp hours are absolutely needed that may reasonably sway your decision.

2) The ability to function to -20°F within spec may be invaluable to those in colder climes.

**Please note that while the Rayovac 808 quad alkaline "F" cell battery is rated to -20°F, the Energizer equivalent, part number 529, is rated only to 0°F. While this may not matter to 90% of potential users, no doubt there are some, on this forum or outside it, who would benefit from that extra temperature range. While this is pure speculation, the fact the published specifications indicate an ability to function at lower temperatures may indicate a cell chemistry of overall higher quality.


For those applications requiring a 6v lantern battery as a power source, I recommend four Energizer EN95 or equivalent cells.

Disclaimer: No affiliation with either company.

I hope this guide helps someone.

If any of my numbers are off, please let me know and I'll update the thread.

 

[broadgage]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

I have no reason to doubt the figures given above, but overseas readers should note that it refers to batteries for the USA market.

D cells of reputable brands seem to be much the same everywhere, but 6 volt lantern batteries are not.
UK spec duracell lantern batteries are only 13 amp hours, or appreciably less than 4 D cells.
The larger lantern batteries with screw terminals are 27 AH for the UK market, but 54 AH for the USA.

 

[jebatty]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

Doesn't a 25ma discharge rate seriously distort and over-state battery capacity? And shouldn't battery capacity discharge rate relate to discharge rate in typical use? My 6-volt lantern sealed beam bulb draws over 1 amp, more that 40x the 25ma test discharge rate. Since I do not use it much and then not for long periods, I replaced the 6-v lantern battery with 5 Eneloop AA's, which I now use for almost everything. Very happy with the results.

 

[LEDAdd1ct]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

I have no reason to doubt the figures given above, but overseas readers should note that it refers to batteries for the USA market.

D cells of reputable brands seem to be much the same everywhere, but 6 volt lantern batteries are not.
UK spec duracell lantern batteries are only 13 amp hours, or appreciably less than 4 D cells.
The larger lantern batteries with screw terminals are 27 AH for the UK market, but 54 AH for the USA.

A few points:

1) One can only discuss with accuracy and relevancy a given model; whether or not that particular model appears in a given market is a second order proposition. If there is a separate model of the Duracell six volt lantern battery available in the UK market with a different set of published specifications, then I would be happy to add it to the list, along with a link to the relevant PDF. However, I have no idea what "UK spec duracell lantern batteries" mean, as I do not mention anywhere in the thread the existence of a Duracell branded alkaline quad "F" cell 6.0v battery for the explicit reason that the Duracell branded 6.0v lantern batteries I was (easily) able to locate were using alkaline "D" cells sealed inside. I do not believe there is anything specific to the UK about this. If you visit http://google.co.uk and use the advanced tools to display only results from the United Kingdom and then enter as your query "Energizer 529" you will find (as I did a moment ago) a plethora of merchants who will happily sell to you the exact 6.0v alkaline quad "F" cell examined in this thread. I specifically discussed Rayovac model 808 and Energizer model 529 because those two particular models are known to house four alkaline "F" cells in series; many inferior models with lower published capacity, by those brands, Duracell, and others, contain four "something" cells, and therefore, are outside the purview of my investigation because of their smaller capacity and unknown contents.

2) With respect to "The larger lantern batteries with screw terminals are 27 AH for the UK market, but 54 AH for the USA" please be specific as to which models you are speaking of. Unlike tuners with different de-emphasis on the FM band, mains voltages, or AC outlet plug shapes and sizes, I do not believe there is anything "special" about the market for these batteries. We can compare one model to another, but...

If there is a specific model to which you are referring then we can investigate further—please post the exact model.

Doesn't a 25ma discharge rate seriously distort and over-state battery capacity? And shouldn't battery capacity discharge rate relate to discharge rate in typical use? My 6-volt lantern sealed beam bulb draws over 1 amp, more that 40x the 25ma test discharge rate. Since I do not use it much and then not for long periods, I replaced the 6-v lantern battery with 5 Eneloop AA's, which I now use for almost everything. Very happy with the results.

1) When we compare cells, we need to compare them at the exact same discharge rate, or the comparison is meaningless. Sticking to one brand, Energizer, I chose the first line on the bar chart, the 25mA discharge rate. It is arbitrary that I chose that rate, but, it provides common ground for comparing cells from the same manufacturer.

2) It does not over-state battery capacity: it states precisely the battery capacity at a 25mA draw, nothing more and nothing less. In the first post, you can peruse links to the PDF files for both the 6.0v Energizer 529 alkaline quad "F" cell and the 1.5v Energizer EN95 single alkaline cell. If you desire, you can move to the next discharge figure on the bar chart for a higher rate of discharge.

3) We can go investigate which one is the better buy at a higher discharge rate. Let's have a look.

Opening both PDF datasheets in parallel, the highest published specification is that farthest to the right in the bar chart. The highest shared discharge rate is at a current of 100mA. While this is not the one amp rate you were hoping for, it is still four times greater than the 25mA discussed in the first post. Reading these PDFs is not an exact science, but for the Energizer EN95 at a discharge rate of 100mA, I read approximately 16000mAh of capacity, while the Energizer 529 reads about 20000mAh of capacity.

Therefore, at higher currents, or in the least, at four times the initially discussed 25mA discharge rate, the Energizer 529 alkaline quad "F" cell has a higher capacity. We cannot speak of absolute capacity, only capacity at a given discharge rate.

4) Eneloops make many people happy, and are a great way to save money.

 

[LEDAdd1ct]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

One more piece of data:

PDF Of the Rayovac 808 Battery Spec Sheet

 

[broadgage]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

This page from a UK supplier shows a Duracell 6 volt lantern battery as being only 13 AH, which IIRC is about half the capacity of similar batteries sold in the USA.
Only 13 AH suggests not even D cells inside it, let alone F size. Wonder what it contains ? C cells ?

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/cpd/1141792/

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

This page from a UK supplier shows a Duracell 6 volt lantern battery as being only 13 AH, which IIRC is about half the capacity of similar batteries sold in the USA.
Only 13 AH suggests not even D cells inside it, let alone F size. Wonder what it contains ? C cells ?

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/cpd/1141792/

If you look closely it is a SCREW TOP battery and has been discontinued for who knows how long the battery according to Duracell is Rated Capacity
13000 mAh on
15Ohms to 3.2V. I looked around a little and different batteries have different ways to "rate" them using different loads and different ending voltages. I'm guessing 25Ahr rating is at a rather unuseful load probably less than 50ma in use as I looked at the 808 specs and it quotes about 15Ah at around 15 ohms (my guestimate) and it purported to have 4 F cells in it.

 

[LEDAdd1ct]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

Unfortunately, we are looking at only part of the equation.

There is no such thing as absolute capacity, only capacity under a given load.

For example, the PDF Of the Rayovac 808 Battery Spec Sheet as linked has a table inside, which looks like this:

As we can see, from 4.8 volts through 3.6 volts, when presented with a load of 527mA, the battery is able to provide 15800mAh.

Rayovac did a great job of breaking down the mAh the battery is capable of providing under various loads.

Now, let's take a look at the spec sheet for the Duracell PC915, which is the battery to which you refer.

The date on the Duracell PDF is August 30th, 2001, which means that it is likely the discontinued model with "only" 13Ah capacity described in your post.

If we compare it to the table above, we see:

Two thoughts come to mind:

1) The Rayovac is definitely a better battery than the Duracell.
2) The question is, how much better is it?

So, who wants to take a guess and approximate the capacity of the Duracell at 527mA or of the Rayovac at about a 15 ohm load...? ;-)

 

[broadgage]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

If you look closely it is a SCREW TOP battery and has been discontinued for who knows how long the battery according to Duracell is Rated Capacity
13000 mAh on
15Ohms to 3.2V. I looked around a little and different batteries have different ways to "rate" them using different loads and different ending voltages. I'm guessing 25Ahr rating is at a rather unuseful load probably less than 50ma in use as I looked at the 808 specs and it quotes about 15Ah at around 15 ohms (my guestimate) and it purported to have 4 F cells in it.

Yes I know it is a screw top battery, but the stated capacity of the spring top version is the same.
AFAIK Duracell still make these. "discontinued" does I think mean that the supplier that I linked to no longer stocks them, rather than that production has eased.

 

[Poppy]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

LEDAdd1ct,
Thank you for taking the time and sharing your findings.

I recently used HKJ's tests of various batteries, and compared, D cells (NiMH and alkaline), 18650 LiIon, and AA NiMH batteries.

I posted the comparisons, with links to his discharge charts HERE.
Actually in that post, and the followup post.

It seems to me that alkaline cells regardless of size perform well under low loads, and that D cells compare about equally well to a 3400mah 18650 at about 600ma or less, but fail above that rate. D NiMH cells, perform nearly as well as 18650s at both low and high loads.

I suggest that if a person has low temperature requirements at more useful loads (than a mere 25ma) then, he may be better served with a 4 pack of D NiMH than a 6V F cell battery. But I really do not know.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

I suggest that if a person has low temperature requirements at more useful loads (than a mere 25ma) then, he may be better served with a 4 pack of D NiMH than a 6V F cell battery. But I really do not know.

Unless you absolutely need the extra runtime of a 6b F cell alkaline battery IMO you are better off investing in a 6v to 4D lantern battery adapter and buying D cells for it as in the long run it will save you money.

 

[Poppy]

Re: Rayovac 808 Quad "F" Cell Lantern Battery vs. Four Energizer EN95 Cells in Carrie

Yes, and if I recall correctly IIRC NiMH batteries perform better in the cold than alkalines.