Able to tell if a Surefire is waterproof or not?

AlecGold · Jan 8, 2009

IRC there where Special Ops lights that where special made and had extra o-rings and where tested for special operation teams to specific depths. I believe up to 40 meters or 120 feet. Happy consumers could order them as well, but it was a special order and could take some serious time.

All regular lights are water resistant, or perhaps more weather resistant, but I have to admit I have 6P and what was it, I guess an A2, that I had on my body and pack when I crossed a river, swimming. And that without problems. Several times. Did it with a McGizmo Ti as well. Nice stuff. One thing you DON'T want to do is take a really hot light and dunk it in the water. The hot air inside will cool, creating a vacuum. Together with the water pressure on the outside and the vacuum inside is a guarantee to get the insides wet and not functioning anymore. But cool or cold lights? Haven't had a problem with them yet. Swimming isn't diving, but I thought it was pretty decent performance.

Edit: a bit of searching showed me on the SureFire website that the X300 is 22 meters waterproof. Not bad...
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main...=6&prrfnbr=24462&sesent=0,0&search_id=1211455

Superdave · Jan 8, 2009

My A2 took on water after being submerged but suffered no real damage as a result. There was a little white residue in the reflector but a 90 degree bent dry, clean Qtip took care of that. I was going to send it in to SF to get the head replaced but never got around to it. All my orings are good/lubed as well.

All of my other SF lights have been submerged to several feet w/o problems. :)

AlecGold · Jan 8, 2009

Now I'm wondering what the other light that I had with me was. I still think an A2, I know I had one at the time, but I'm not sure.
But the 6P was on of the first, with California on the back around the clickie, that wasn't a clicky, but a rubber hat with a solid piece of aluminium behind it for making contact. And still it was water tight. OTH there wasn't much to destroy: the batteries would need to be replaced and the lamp assambly if it was dirty, but what else could get stuck? No electronics :D
I still have that light, but it has now a Turbo reflector. That is one nice super throwing light with only 65 lumens!!!!

rtt · Jan 8, 2009

I looked in my SF box of parts and found a Model Z41 tailcap still in the sealed plastic bag. On the Users Manual it states the following " Model Z41 Waterproof tail cap for flashlights".

I was wondering if all Z41 tailcaps have a membrane to make the tailcaps waterproof or are there waterproof and non-waterproof versions of the Z41???

I have looked at some current Z41 tailcaps and compared it the Z41 tailcap that on the package states waterproof but could not see any difference between them. Anyone know for sure???

Size15's · Jan 8, 2009

SureFire LockOut TailCaps are sealed so they are 'waterproof'.
The Z41 was originally labelled as such because the Z40 wasn't sealed.
The Z40 was quickly withdrawn so there was no need to label the Z41 as waterproof.

In the olden days there was the Z14 TailCap that didn't lockout, and wasn't sealed. And the Z23 that didn't lockout but was 'Diaphragm Sealed' waterproof.
And then was the Z31 which has the now normal raised, knurled rubber switch boot rather than the more flush, perhaps even originally smooth (like the 9N) rubber switch boot of the Z14.
Difficult to know for sure since no specific photo of the Z14 is available (AFAIK)

rtt · Jan 8, 2009

Size15's....Thank you for the definitive answer to my question. Looking through the SF parts box brought back many fond memories of various SF lego lights I had in the past.

greenLED · Jan 8, 2009

For those of you using those delrin rings in the L1/A2 tailcaps... the threads on those may not bottom completely against the switch' rubber boot, which allows water to easily seep into the light.

danpass · Jan 13, 2009

it would be pretty dumb for a marketer of "tactical" flashlights to not have some effective water resistance in their lights, at least 3feet ya know ..."dunkable".

yet the original G2 ...... :rolleyes:

looking forward to my new-to-me A2 being "dunkable" (just in case).

where can one get replacement o-rings and lube for surefire lights? their website doesn't seem to have it.

Size15's · Jan 13, 2009

danpass said:
where can one get replacement o-rings and lube for surefire lights? their website doesn't seem to have it.

Just give SureFire a call! :)

Illum · Jan 13, 2009

Sw1tch said:
I recently purchased a used Surefire A2 off eBay, and absolutely love it. It's one of the older 4 sided models, and I know SF confirmed their lights waterproof after a certain point but I cannot figure out if this one is or not.

Is there a way to tell if the one I purchased is waterproof based off features or the serial number?

The only way I know of is to dunk it in and see if it burps...:ohgeez:
Some folks here, like Craig Johnson [Aka The_LED_Museum] utilizes a suction test to determine whether the flashlight is airtight.

Prior to the dunking, verify the following visual checks
O-rings are not damaged: in one piece, not flaking, no swelling is detected.
O-rings are lubricated both bottom and top, along with the threads
Areas that are not user accessible is snug and not loose.

Surefire guarantees that their flashlights are waterproof to 33feet/10 meters, what they fail to mention [or occaisionally emphasize] is the shelf life of flashlights before the standard cannot be guaranteed, due to the aging of waterproofing components and seals. :sigh:

Lighthound offers replacement O-ring for surefires and lube
O-Ring - SureFire A / L Series Tailcap o-ring
O-Ring - SureFire C / M Tailcap
O-Ring - SureFire C Bezel
O-Ring - SureFire E Series Bezel
O-Ring - SureFire E Series Tailcap
O-Ring - SureFire M Bezel

In the past several Emails concerning lube was fowarded to surefire from folks here and apparently nyogel is what surefire prefers.
Lighthound has 760G and 779ZC available on their website, 759G is no longer available. regarding the difference between the two, read this excerpt quoted from Liththound's site

Lighthound said:
NyoGel® 760G is a silica thickened, medium viscosity, synthetic hydrocarbon grease for lubrication and protection of tin-lead electrical connectors. Benefits include good water resistance. By preventing environmental and fretting corrosion, it extends the life of electrical contacts. We recommend this grease for use on the threads of all aluminum-bodied flashlights. NyoGel® 760G is a relatively "thin" grease and rated for -40°C to 135°C temperature ranges. Note that NyoGel® 760G is not conductive, but it was designed for lubricating surfaces that are conductive.
NyoGel® 760G lubricant for surfaces of electrical contacts - EXCELLENT for SureFire® Flashlights. This is the lubricant that is recommended for all metal-bodied flashlights, including SureFire®, Fenix, StreamLight® and Maglight® Flashlights
NyoGel® 779ZC is silica thickened, light viscosity, synthetic hydrocarbon grease intended for mechanical components. It contains special additives for reducing wear of aluminum surfaces. NyoGel® 779ZC is a thicker grease that has a higher level of damping and water protection than NyoGel® 759G. It is rated for temperatures from -20°C to 125°C. It works well in the connection between the o-rings and the bezel and tailcap on the flashlights. It also works great on Nitrolon-bodied flashlights like the G2, G2Z and 8NX.

danpass · Jan 13, 2009

Size15's said:
Just give SureFire a call! :)

this is a no-logic zone!

edit:

Well ..... I tried to buy a set of o-rings for the A2 as well as three G2s I have.

They don't sell them ................. but they are sending replacements for all my lights free of charge lol

By the way: SF uses Nyogel 760 as thread/o-ring lube.

.

TITAN1833 · Jan 13, 2009

unless the light is certified dive rated I would suggest it is more water resistant i.e able to take light showers of rain and maybe dunkable,but I would air on the side of caution when dunking old lights :D

danpass · Jan 13, 2009

carrot · Jan 13, 2009

Even if water comes into the G2, will it still work and function properly? My guess is yes, it will work 100%. To me, that's what a tactical light is about. If it still works when things go wrong, who cares if a little water gets inside?

danpass · Jan 13, 2009

carrot said:
Even if water comes into the G2, will it still work and function properly? My guess is yes, it will work 100%. To me, that's what a tactical light is about. If it still works when things go wrong, who cares if a little water gets inside?

Many of our troops use SFs. I know some SF gear is issued but most is personally owned.

I don't expect our troops to baby their equipment and neither do I expect them to have to treat their lights as disposable as would be the case if they got wet inside and had to remain that way for some time (for whatever reason).

Mjolnir · Jan 13, 2009

Some non dive lights claim to pass the IPX8 standard, which means:
"The equipment is suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which shall be specified by the manufacturer." (from Wikipedia). My eagletac light claims to be IPX8, and the manufacturer says that it is "dunkable in two feet of water for up to 10 hours." It definitely is not a dive light, but it is apparently fully waterproof.
I am sort of surprised that surefires aren't guaranteed waterproof, since they cost a lot more than other lights. I would expect them to be MORE durable (and waterproof) than my 70 dollar light, not less.
I would think that surefire wouldn't keep quiet if their lights were completely waterproof, as it would be one more thing they could advertise. The fact that they don't seems to indicate to me that they haven't passed any sort of standard (this doesn't mean that they AREN'T waterproof, they could very well be).
Or, surefire could just be incredibly modest. However, I doubt that.

jayhackett03 · Jan 14, 2009

carrot said:
Even if water comes into the G2, will it still work and function properly? My guess is yes, it will work 100%. To me, that's what a tactical light is about. If it still works when things go wrong, who cares if a little water gets inside?

i twisted my G2 tailcap underwater, got water in the tailcap, and caused it not to work. Surefire sent me a new one though.

matt0 · Jan 14, 2009

I was browsing around the SF website and was reading the description on the G2Z-NRA and saw this:

G2Z-NRA

Constructed of Nitrolon®, a corrosion-proof proprietary polymer that absorbs shock more efficiently than aluminum, the new G2Z shares all of the features of the best-selling Z2 CombatLight®, yet is lighter and more water-resistant.

I wonder if there is any truth to that. I know of a few reports here on CPF of G2's leaking so who knows...

Size15's · Jan 14, 2009

The G2Z has a different TailCap so the fit and seal could well be nominally better...

danpass · Jan 14, 2009

matt0 said:
I was browsing around the SF website and was reading the description on the G2Z-NRA and saw this:

I wonder if there is any truth to that. I know of a few reports here on CPF of G2's leaking so who knows...

the G2 tailcap is nearly worthless in terms of water resistance UNLESS you cinch it down tight all the way (which of course leaves the light on).

I'm talking about immersion though, 1-3ft, though a heavy rain would do it too.

Able to tell if a Surefire is waterproof or not?

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