Backups

I spent a major part of this weekend getting a friends new box (3800+ AMD64 HP on sale at Fry's) up and running. I built his previous one and the HDD (WD ) failed after he pulled the plug due to a cursor freeze. (prolly cordless bats) I had a back-up drive in his box, but the last time I did my best effort at a back-up for him was in january.

I pulled the HDDs and tried to add them one at a time to his new box in the hope of recovering some files. His new box insists on trying to boot on the added drive. BIOS (Award) will NOT let me change boot priority!! Let me add that his box came with a SATA drive. My previous box was SCSI and I wonder if this is why I can't add a second IDE drive to his?

I brought his two drives home and swapped his main for my backup after setting it to slave on the #2 IDE optical's bus. My fairly new box didn't like it!! His main drive is pooched! (Yes I've read the data recovery thread here.) His back-up drive was readable, and I was able to save a bunch of stuff, and burned a DVD for him. Problem is, I lack sufficient clues as to what to back-up! I was fortunate to get advance notice of the imminent failure of the SCSI Seagate drive in my previous box, and saved all my emails. I missed my address list! :

We're both running XP, and I hear there is a back-up utility built-in. What I propose is for both of us go down to Fry's and buy external HDDs (USB2 or FW) and plug them in once a month or so and run the back-up utility. Does the back-up utility grab things like .wab files, Firefox bookmarks, Outlook exp inboxes, etc? Where does the utility hide?

Any user-friendly, external, back-up solutions for a complete idiot and a near idiot (me) would be appreciated! Creeping senility really sucks!

Larry

Will your computer see his old main drive in BIOS? Also does his new computer have the most recent BIOS flash? A new computer doesn't mean the latest is on it.

Western Digital has some disk tools on their website that can help sometimes recover a bad drive. Also if his new computer is trying to boot to his old drive why not let it? (I know it won't actually boot since it's not the same machine, I just want to see what happens) Is it giving an error when it tries and if so what is it?

-LT

I found that imaging a drive is more efficient/effective for me. I partition drives so that system/OS files are on one partition, and the rest are "data" files that I periodically backup. I image the system drive using Symantec Ghost. It usually consumes two DVD data discs, and I also have a separate drive on my network that contain the ghost image files. If a mishap occurs, I restore to a previous image. Usually take half an hour to restore back to a known good state.

Lunal_Tic, his previous computer's failure was inability to boot at all- infinate loop error msg of boot failure. Couldn't boot in safe mode or at all. My box saw his drive but will not let me into it-error msgs left and right, even on my boot. Everybody is NTFS. His new box didn't see the old one's HDD, but mine did. Errors prevent me from access. I can read his back-up drive, but due to my lack of skills, last january's manual back-up by me lacks a lot! His new computer isn't remotely dying! It's close to bleeding edge and I suspect it has something to do with being serial ATA that prevents me from connecting either of his old drives on the IDE bus. Did you read the last paragraph of my post?

Larry

CM said:

I found that imaging a drive is more efficient/effective for me. I partition drives so that system/OS files are on one partition, and the rest are "data" files that I periodically backup. I image the system drive using Symantec Ghost. It usually consumes two DVD data discs, and I also have a separate drive on my network that contain the ghost image files. If a mishap occurs, I restore to a previous image. Usually take half an hour to restore back to a known good state.

Click to expand...

Chris, that's not an option for a complete idiot and a near one! (me!) Pls read my last paragraph again.

Larry

second vote for GHOST (a total copy of a partition to an image file)

Also because of the ease & speed of restoring post-failure.

The manual (world's most terrible manual) covers all the "corner cases" and not clearly cover what you'd normally use the program for, but Ghost is fairly intuitive in DOS anyway (Create -> Image from Partition) If you're comfortable cruising through a BIOS to change boot order of drives it's a familiar enough interface to that kinda thing. The latest Ghost kinda sorta lets you do some of that in the Windows GUI before requiring a reboot to PC-DOS where the actual copying will take place.

If you copy to an external drive (USB or 1394) that's easy. If what you have is small you could copy to a DVD and make the DVD bootable into PC-DOS for Ghost (Ghost creates it for you).

With a standard backup program you're saving some folders/files that you can later copy back to your totally rebuilt Windows partition, but you've got to load Windows, all your apps, your configurations, all the updates from ground zero, etc first before you restore your folders/files. That's so much more of a pain than restoring an entire copy of the partition then you just run a few updates and whatever frequently-changing files you need. So with Ghost you'll still want to backup your frequently-changed/created files in addition to creating the Ghost image, but at least you don't need to totally rebuild your partition from scratch with at the point of popping in the Windows setup disk.

Hi Larry,

I don't think I said anything about his new computer dying. I did say that the BIOS in the new computer might not be the latest one. I was just trying to see if his old main drive has really failed or just has bad attitude. If it can be seen in the BIOS it might not be dead. It is also possible that the BIOS is Write protected by a jumper on the mobo which might preclude you from changing the boot order. On his new box it is possible that the default boot order is IDE, SATA, SCSI or add in board.

Western Digital can be really picky about their jumper settings, try several.

As for reading the last paragraph, if you mean the one that includes "Where does the utility hide?" then yes I read that one too. The Windows XP backup program is Start>Programs>Accessories>System Tools> Backup It can also be set up to automagically backup at intervals on a schedule.

Regarding what to back up, try "Documents and Settings" to start. It is a blanket that should catch most of the items you want to save. A less inclusive blanket would be just "My Documents"

If however you are referring to the paragraph that includes "Creeping senility", well be thankful it's not raging senility. Also I've read that idiots can be very ingenious. (but I still haven't found the perfect backup system, sorry)

-LT

tvodrd said:

Lunal_Tic, his previous computer's failure was inability to boot at all- infinate loop error msg of boot failure. Couldn't boot in safe mode or at all. My box saw his drive but will not let me into it-error msgs left and right, even on my boot. Everybody is NTFS. His new box didn't see the old one's HDD, but mine did. Errors prevent me from access. I can read his back-up drive, but due to my lack of skills, last january's manual back-up by me lacks a lot! His new computer isn't remotely dying! It's close to bleeding edge and I suspect it has something to do with being serial ATA that prevents me from connecting either of his old drives on the IDE bus. Did you read the last paragraph of my post?

Larry

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Larry you ran things like scandisk on the old drive, right? What did that report?

Also, I'm sorry for being dense but I can't quite figure out what drive types are in what machine. As far as I can tell you're saying ...
Friend's old pc: old-style IDE (parallel ATA drive) no SCSI
Friend's new pc: SATA on main bus, old-style ATA on 2nd bus
Your pc: SCSI and parallel IDE/ATA

Is this right?

[edit] oops -- LunalTic sounds like he knows what he's talking about more than I can do and anyway I gotta get to sleep now (sorry)

Forgot to mention that his new computer might also have one or both IDE plugs turned off in BIOS. Might be another reason they weren't read.


Blinky, IIRC WD stopped making SCSI drives a while back so I've been going with the WDs were ATA drives.

-LT

If the backup utility is not installed, try looking in the valueadd\msft folder on the XP installation CD.

We use a DVD burner and the backup utility that came with that. We back up the sytem disk to a 8 gig double layer DVD.

For my linux workstation, I drop the important files (my working directory and all config files) to tape every night. I also have a backup copy on a second hard drive on a seperate controller. The program is Amanda, though I most frequently use home brewed scripts.

Daniel

tvodrd said:

Any user-friendly, external, back-up solutions for a complete idiot and a near idiot (me) would be appreciated! Creeping senility really sucks!

Larry

Click to expand...

Larry, you may want to check out the OneTouch external backup solutions from Maxtor. Very user-friendly, set it up, schedule it even and also can be protected in case of theft.

You will have to make some decisions on exactly what you want it to backup. It can do the whole machine or a subset of files.

Operating system recovery will need to be recovered or re-installed if necessary.

This type of solution and many like it are for your data files and not for the operating system.

If you want to skip the operating system and do complete system protection then Symantec Ghost a very good way to go.

Hope this helps.

Curtis

tvodrd said:

Chris, that's not an option for a complete idiot and a near one! (me!) Pls read my last paragraph again.

Larry

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Larry,you are far from being an idiot. I was thinking since you were kind enough to spend a better part of the weekend for your friend, you are probably going to be called upon to "rescue" him again in the future :nana: and that using ghost will only cost you half an hour to an hour of time. You can store the backup on an external drive as you desire also. I have an external drive to hold backups for my family members, and a few close friends as I also get to spend a good part of my time as IT/Tech Support for them.

I use an external HD USB enclosure, with a built in fan, and a 200 GB Seagate drive.
I have a backup program running on it, and backup my files every night.
I take too many photos, etc, to be loosing crap.
CDs and DVDs are junk, and dont last.
I dont want/trust tapes.

Once this drive fills, (and it will, I have over 25,000 digital photos) I will buy another, and another, and another, will theres a stack of them sitting there.

~John

I also take a slightly different approach to backups. I don't backup my OS or programs. Heck, it's been over two years since I put this machine together. If I have a catastrophic failure then it is overdue time for me to re-format and reinstall all the programs I need anyway. Also, if I have a failure I am just as likely to re-build my machine or build a new one so a ghost disk of the OS won't be very useful.

I am anal about my data, photos, spreadsheets, mp3's etc. I don't use the default sotrage locations that most programs want to put things in. I have a few directories on different drives that hold those kind of files. I made a simple batch file using xcopy to back up modified files from thise drives to a network attached storage drive. Everytime I add photos or modify a file I just run the batch file. Quick and painless.

Not sure if you're forever put off WD drives but maybe one of these WD external drives with built-in backup software & smart power management might be good.

I postdate DOS and have to be running a major cheat sheet to use it. Can you even run a DOS program under XP? I don't think you could with '98 and I am challenged enough by Windows!

My previous box was cool hardware- SCSI Seagate 10kRPM ($800!) HDD and opticals, water cooled and every cable in it made by me. The Seagate finally said enough after 5 years and 2 computers, but gave me enough warning to save a lot of stuff! Some pics of it here. That was just hardware which I can deal with. My current is a Crashpak I bought at Fry's, and I think it's pretty bitchin. I'll build a RAID 1 sys some day.

I did copy my friend's "my documents" onto the surviving drive back in Jan, but he had a lot of stuff in other desktop folders and what he added since then is lost. I built his previous box and the mobo failed abt a year ago. I replaced the mobo and added another HDD with his old one going to "backup" status. He got virused/adwared beyond repair a few months ago, and I sent him to a shop. They formatted his main drive, and managed to save a fair amount of stuff.

cue003, I like your recommendation best!! I don't plan to have the back-up automatic or running all the time.

Lunal_Tic, Start>Programs>Accessories>System Tools> I don't see anything that says "backup." There is a "system Restore," but I guess I would have to set the "whens?" :meclueless:

I apoilogize for being a little short with folks trying to help last night!!! I plead rough (for me) weekend. I really am computer Thanks to those that tried!!

If somebody would like a crack at recovering some of my friend's data, the HDD is available.

Larry

Hi Larry,

Here is a link that may be helpful on the XP backup software. I think maybe you are using XP Home rather than Pro so this should help. XP backup software

I wish I was in the States. I'd give the hard drive a shot but shipping is both pricey and might be a bit rough on the drive.

The Maxtor setup looks good on paper l but I've killed every Maxtor external that I've ever had inside of one year then their replacement just outside of warranty and their support guys weren't too nice about it. Their comment was that drives don't last forever so get used to it.

I have a WD external that's been cranking for 2-3 years now and just picked up a Buffalo TeraStation for additional storage that I like. I run it RAID 5 so it cuts its capacity but really protects my data from mechanical failures at least.

Don't worry about getting "short" after a long weekend of computers, I deal with them everyday and I think I've lost about a foot and a half making me permanently short.

Good luck on the rest. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me via email.

-LT

I bought a Maxtor OneTouch a few years ago. No fan. Virtually hermetically sealed drive. If you use it for an hour it will get hot enough to fry eggs. All data will be lost.

Now I buy my own enclosures with fans, and install a drive of my choice. The AMS Venus is a pretty good enclosure. Mine are IDE though. There haven't been many SATA enclosures, but their numbers are increasing.

I wouldn't archive data on a double layer DVD. I believe those burns are invariably of a lower quality than single layer DVDs. The quality of a CD or DVD burn depends on the quality of the media and the quality of the burner. It can vary greatly. I pretty much look for the Verbatim brand these days.

If you are archiving on optical disks, you must at least read back the entire disk to a temporary folder on the hard drive, to see if it's readable. And never depend on one disc. Make more periodically and it wouldn't hurt to try reading the old ones occasionally. I check the quality of the burns with Nero's CD speed program. I also do backups on other hard drives. I guess I'm paranoid.

It's possible to make reliable backups on CDs or DVDs if you are using good media and have a good burner. But unless you know the burn quality you are getting, it's a crap shoot.

Lunal_Tic said:

Hi Larry,

Here is a link that may be helpful on the XP backup software. I think maybe you are using XP Home rather than Pro so this should help. XP backup software

I wish I was in the States. I'd give the hard drive a shot but shipping is both pricey and might be a bit rough on the drive.

The Maxtor setup looks good on paper l but I've killed every Maxtor external that I've ever had inside of one year then their replacement just outside of warranty and their support guys weren't too nice about it. Their comment was that drives don't last forever so get used to it.

I have a WD external that's been cranking for 2-3 years now and just picked up a Buffalo TeraStation for additional storage that I like. I run it RAID 5 so it cuts its capacity but really protects my data from mechanical failures at least.

Don't worry about getting "short" after a long weekend of computers, I deal with them everyday and I think I've lost about a foot and a half making me permanently short.

Good luck on the rest. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me via email.

-LT

Click to expand...

I've also gone off Maxtors after a no. of failures. Plus Maxtor will soon be history with the Seagate takeover - you'll see alot of Maxtor products going cheap.

You can look at this Calvary external one-touch backup HDD enclosure that runs a Seagate HDD.

To try and asnwer your question about what to backup:

1. outlook express address book:
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\Microsoft\Address Book

2. outlook express data:
Don't know. I moved mine to an easier to find location, but I think the ORIGINAL location was almost the same as #1 above.

3. my docs:
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\my documents

4. quickbooks:
c:\program files\intuit\
or c:\qbooksw for old versions

5. firefox/netscape:
don't know

6. In general, get c:\documents and settings\<your user name>
Get the WHOLE folder if you can. Make sure to get hidden and system files. But BEFORE you do this, purge your internet cache. Those files are in a subdirectory and have the ability to take up a large amount of space. This folder will also get your desktop files for you.



7. Palm desktop:
c:\program files\palm