Spoke Too Soon About LED Headlights! Check It!

Check it out, FRONT and rear LEDs!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.audiworld.com/news/03/geneva/nuvolari/content2.shtml

Sweet... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

between the LS LEDs (they gotta be, to put out enough light, and they are actively cooled!) and the probably peltier cooler to run them, why not just HIDs, or a central HID source routed w/ fiber optics? Oh, and i wonder if the IR sensors that determine taillamp output will also trigger a "clean tail lamp" message or if they will get a heater high pressure "bidet" for the car's butt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Re: Spoke Too Soon About LED Headlights! Check It

I have a feeling the LEDs won't make it to production. Cadillac has a concept with LED headlights too. Wait and see...wait and see...

If they DO make it I know what car all 3000 of us will be going out to test drive (at night)

That is SOOOO sweet. I hope the car makes it to production and sells like crazy. Maybe LED headlights will be standard in years to come.

led's don't throw far enough, or, are white enough. the benefits of led's are lost when you make them as good as incandescents.

what fun is that?!

i want a nice car that i can *put leds into* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: Spoke Too Soon About LED Headlights! Check It

Hm, they claim 18 LEDs per side, and 10 times less electricity consumed. Something's not right. If they were 5W LSs that would be a healthy 1800 lumens per lamp, but also 90W each. And if they're only 1W LSs then they're too dim.

They may not be Luxeons. But either way, HID still beats it for light output and efficiency.

It seems to me that 18 5 watt Luxeons can't even come close to the output of an HID lamp, and that's what all of the high end Audi's have. Much as we'd like to see it, the future of automotive headlamps is going to be HID's. Tail lights and turn signals are another matter; LED's offer some real advantages here, and we'll be seeing them on more and more cars in the next few years. The more expensive cars, of course.

But LED headlights? We all know the physics of the LED emmiters available now, and what's likely to be available in the next few years. I just don't see LED's replacing the massive amount of focused light available with the current HID head lights.

This is a concept car, and we all know how neat they look at the Auto Show. But how many of them make it into even limited production? Not very damn many.

And today's auto's are using incandescant lamps that don't even have a *base*, just to save 5 cents a lamp.... We won't be seeing LED's in very large numbers on very many cars anytime soon, I'm afraid. First on the more expensive cars, but it'll be a pretty long time before we see them on a Honda Civic, or Toyota Corolla, much less the crap that rolls out of Detroit.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif

LED's starting to make it into cars now?

Does this mean i could stop using my ARC LS as a temporary headlight? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

If they are using 5 watts bin x with average output of 200 lumens per LED, we are looking at 90 watts with 3600 lumens per side for a total of 7200 lumens @ 180 watts. 40 lumens per watt seems to be on the high side of Incandescents' efficacy. What do you guys think? Asuming $20 per LED it's $720 for the front head lights alone.. woo hoo..

Ha, maybe in five years. I don't think Lumileds can have enough yield on the X-bin (has anyone seen one) to RELIABLY supply the automotive industry. Just imagine after ordering your new Audi, "sorry sir, you'll have to wait six months unless you want dim, green headlights" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif HID's still kick's LED's butt in terms of efficiency, throw, and more importantly, consistency. But as I said, that's today. Who knows 5, 10 years from now.

Actually...

[ QUOTE ]
Nerd said:
What do you guys think? Asuming $20 per LED it's $720 for the front head lights alone.. woo hoo..

[/ QUOTE ]

...that's not a lot for lights. Here's a break down of what Audi S4 custom lights cost (all street price):

Euro/E-Code Housings: $500/pair
SPP Precision Optics H7 Super White High beam bulbs: $40/pair
3157 LED Super White Corner Bulbs: $45/pair
H6W LED Super White City Light Bulbs: $50/pair
Osram Xenarc 5,400K Bulbs: $250/pair
SPP Stage: 3, 50 watt ballasts, 5,000 lumens: $500/pair

Grand Total: $1,385.00! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Re: Actually...

What's your point? You can't compare aftermarket pricing to OEM prices; there's a huge markup on aftermarket that OEMs don't have to deal with. If an OEM is paying $720 in raw LED cost alone for a headlight, and that doesn't even take into account the bezel design, frame assembly, etc., you'll pay at least $2100 for it on the open market.

I...

...listed street prices for those items. Retail prices would be about 25% higher.

Just FYI, that is all.

What's your point?

my point is

LEDs for automotive headlights are a stupid idea, by every measure that matters - cost, lighting efficacy, power efficiency. HIDs are already spec'd to outlast the life of the car, so LED's extended lifetimes are irrelevant.

The notion of using an array of LEDs for steering-sensitive lighting is amusing, but also annoying - I don't want to pay for 30 expensive LEDs if only 10 of them are ever going to be lit at a time. But I suppose I can live with that if it's really cheaper than any other alternatives.

I remember when "Central Lighting Systems" were going to be the wave of the future, I guess LEDs have changed that story. (CELIS - 1 really bright HID buried in a shielded box, with optic fiber lightguides going out to the rest of the car, providing a single source for *everything* - head lights, signals, interior/dash lights. Hella still has some info about CELIS on their web site, but it's far reduced in scope.)

LEDs make great brake/signal lamps, no question of that. And maybe in time they'll be OK for headlights too. I think the potential is there. Since LEDs are so highly directional to begin with, it's just a matter of forming the proper lens over the die to generate a beam any shape you want. No need for reflectors or large glass lenses at all. But these guys aren't there yet, and what they do have has no merit.

Re: my point is

As an interesting sidenote, there was a concept car by Audi or Volvo (I think?) a few years ago that used a central lighting system. The polycarbonate lenses melted after the headlights and been "on" too long. Ouch... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif