Help needed powerpack quad mag3d

Fixmaster-J · May 6, 2008

Hi,
I know a long story looks boring but i could really use help with this.
I'm planning to make a quad mag.
I'm using a mag 3d and 4 SSC P4 led's and i want to use a shark driver to drive the led's.
The problem i have is i have to find a good powersource. Ive done some calculations and i'm trying to find out what would work and what would be best:

Led's run on 1A ~3.25V (~13V)
4 P4 @ 1A is ~13V @ 1A or 13V * 1A = 13W of power(assuming 3.25V each Vf).
If im not wrong the battery voltage has to be somewhere about 8.6V to ~13V, let me know if im wrong please!

To drive the led's i was thinking about using 3 or 4 of these (see url
below) C size batteries to do the job. It would fit but i have to find
something like a spacers because C's are smaller than D's.
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5035
Or i can use this ones for that but then 3:
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3069
Or 4 of these:
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=4418

Or i could use 3AA/D converter's with the folowing batteries (that would be
9 batteries total) So i guess about 2900mah at 4.5*3=13.5V
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7260

I hope you have the time to give it a look and what you would advise. I
really suck at powersuply's but im learning.
Maybe there are way better solutions. I would really like to hear about it if so!
Hope you can give me an advise what to do.
Thx very much!
Jasper

Supernam · May 6, 2008

For shark, you need s starting voltage of at least 50% of Vf. So in your case, 6.5 volts min. At the end of the runtime, it should be at least 1/3 of Vf, or about 4v. The closer you get your Vbatt to Vf, the better, as it reduces the current going through your driver.

In a 3D configuration, I recommend 9xAA as you have already thought about. AA's are inexpensive, and you don't need to bore your mag. I recommend either that you use a battery holder like mdocod's (sp?), or have LuxLuthor make a battery pack (they are nice and solid). (btw, the KD AA's that you linked to are Lithium NON-rechargeable batteries similar to energizer E2's, I'd use Eneloops if I were you)

I'd stay away from using the multiple lithium ions for your specific application. Even if you were to use protected Li-Ions, it would be a pain in the butt to charge.

Fixmaster-J · May 6, 2008

Supernam said:
For shark, you need s starting voltage of at least 50% of Vf. So in your case, 6.5 volts min. At the end of the runtime, it should be at least 1/3 of Vf, or about 4v. The closer you get your Vbatt to Vf, the better, as it reduces the current going through your driver.

In a 3D configuration, I recommend 9xAA as you have already thought about. AA's are inexpensive, and you don't need to bore your mag. I recommend either that you use a battery holder like mdocod's (sp?), or have LuxLuthor make a battery pack (they are nice and solid). (btw, the KD AA's that you linked to are Lithium NON-rechargeable batteries similar to energizer E2's, I'd use Eneloops if I were you)

I'd stay away from using the multiple lithium ions for your specific application. Even if you were to use protected Li-Ions, it would be a pain in the butt to charge.

Tnx very much for your reply!
What kind of eneloops do you recommend?
I have seen this ones:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6807
How many mAh would i need to do the job?

LuxLuthor · May 6, 2008

Fixmaster, as mentioned in PM's, the AA's would be the best solution with 3 stacks of 3 Eneloops, but they are only 2000mAh not the 4000mAh storage that you were hoping for. You can get them a lot cheaper at Amazon than the DX price at this link, also can get free shipping. I'm not an expert on LED mods, regarding the total voltage you need, but 9xAA would give a range of 9.6V to 12.9V (hot). They hold up a decent voltage at 5-7 Amp drain rate. You can check Silverfox testing rate to see the specific voltage at various amp draw rates here.

Only downside to the 2000mAh Eneloop is you have a shorter run time....but it is much safer than trying to use 3 x (unsafe chemistry) Unprotected Lithium Ion D or C cells that you linked.

The Lithium Iron (LiFe) have a limited Amp output, are unprotected (so could be damaged by over-discharging), and usually need a special charger.

Fixmaster-J · May 7, 2008

Hi,
I have looked on amazon. I'm going for the AA/D solution tnx for that!
I just wondered what makes the eneloop's so good.
I have seen AA batteries of, Sony 2500mAh, Energizer 2500mAh, Duracell 2650mAh, Power2000 2900mAh, Are all these batteries as good as the eneloops? Because these have more mAh's so that would be better....

LuxLuthor said:
Fixmaster, as mentioned in PM's, the AA's would be the best solution with 3 stacks of 3 Eneloops, but they are only 2000mAh not the 4000mAh storage that you were hoping for. You can get them a lot cheaper at Amazon than the DX price at this link, also can get free shipping. I'm not an expert on LED mods, regarding the total voltage you need, but 9xAA would give a range of 9.6V to 12.9V (hot). They hold up a decent voltage at 5-7 Amp drain rate. You can check Silverfox testing rate to see the specific voltage at various amp draw rates here.

Only downside to the 2000mAh Eneloop is you have a shorter run time....but it is much safer than trying to use 3 x (unsafe chemistry) Unprotected Lithium Ion D or C cells that you linked.

The Lithium Iron (LiFe) have a limited Amp output, are unprotected (so could be damaged by over-discharging), and usually need a special charger.

LuxLuthor · May 7, 2008

Fixmaster-J said:
Hi,
I have looked on amazon. I'm going for the AA/D solution tnx for that!
I just wondered what makes the eneloop's so good.
I have seen AA batteries of, Sony 2500mAh, Energizer 2500mAh, Duracell 2650mAh, Power2000 2900mAh, Are all these batteries as good as the eneloops? Because these have more mAh's so that would be better....

It is a good question. Basically the Eneloops are the new "low self discharge" technology of NiMH, so you can keep them on the shelf and they don't lose their stored charge like other NiMH over months. That benefit (as well as a decent holding of voltage at Amp draw rates up to 6 Amps continuous) comes with the tradeoff of the lesser 2,000mAh of storage. Then you next have to look at graphs that Silverfox did here to find out how a particular battery holds its voltage under a given Amp load...and how long it REALLY lasts, to see if another battery is worth buying.

As you can imagine there are 2900mAh cells that perform like crap with minor Amp drain demands, and may really only have 2,000mAh of storage. It's one requirement if you are using AA's to power a small electronic device like a TV remote control, vs. running a 5.5Amp 5761 Philips halogen bulb.

This is why you should not even think about using anything less than the few quality high current output cells (i.e. Elite 1700mAh AA) for a 100W 10+Amp drawing bulb like the Osram 64623.

Fixmaster-J · May 7, 2008

LuxLuthor said:
It is a good question. Basically the Eneloops are the new "low self discharge" technology of NiMH, so you can keep them on the shelf and they don't lose their stored charge like other NiMH over months. That benefit (as well as a decent holding of voltage at Amp draw rates up to 6 Amps continuous) comes with the tradeoff of the lesser 2,000mAh of storage. Then you next have to look at graphs that Silverfox did here to find out how a particular battery holds its voltage under a given Amp load...and how long it REALLY lasts, to see if another battery is worth buying.

As you can imagine there are 2900mAh cells that perform like crap with minor Amp drain demands, and may really only have 2,000mAh of storage. It's one requirement if you are using AA's to power a small electronic device like a TV remote control, vs. running a 5.5Amp 5761 Philips halogen bulb.

This is why you should not even think about using anything less than the few quality high current output cells (i.e. Elite 1700mAh AA) for a 100W 10+Amp drawing bulb like the Osram 64623.

Tnx again, i just thought i might sound dumb

So is the sanyo 2700 (top of the list) the best battery and do all of the batteries in the list have the new "low self discharge" technology of NiMH?
The duracell 2650 is also at the top of the list and cost about the same on amazon but have about 2.440 ah so if the quality is as good as the eneloops then i think i go for that, otherwise i think i do have to use the eneloops..
And if i use the eneloops 2000 at about 2A it would last 1H, that would be acceptable.

Supernam · May 7, 2008

Eneloops are one of about a handful of LSD cells on the market. Eneloops are typically easy to find in the US at places such as Costco etc. They are made by Sanyo which is a reputable brand. In short, just get the Eneloops.

Fixmaster-J · May 10, 2008

This sucks! I was just about to order the eneloops on amazon. 2x 4pack and 1charger with 2AA's (the cheapest combination to get 9-10 AA's i think).
But they cant ship to the netherands!
Any idea where to get them where they do ship to the neterlands???

Fixmaster-J said:
Hi,
I have looked on amazon. I'm going for the AA/D solution tnx for that!
I just wondered what makes the eneloop's so good.
I have seen AA batteries of, Sony 2500mAh, Energizer 2500mAh, Duracell 2650mAh, Power2000 2900mAh, Are all these batteries as good as the eneloops? Because these have more mAh's so that would be better....

smopoim86 · May 10, 2008

http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...22_141.html?osCsid=7up1ju30sf6vtb1scukbtlg5f2

they ship to the Netherlands. You could probably find eneloops on that side of the pond though.

LuxLuthor · May 10, 2008

Yeah, use google to find them locally. They are sold all over the world....just be careful that there are some fake Eneloops always being sold cheap on EBay.

Fixmaster-J · May 12, 2008

LuxLuthor said:
Yeah, use google to find them locally. They are sold all over the world....just don't be careful that there are some fake Eneloops always being sold cheap on EBay.

I know they do sell them here but the prices are the same here as over there in dollars! So its cheaper this way..

Fixmaster-J · May 12, 2008

smopoim86 said:
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...22_141.html?osCsid=7up1ju30sf6vtb1scukbtlg5f2

they ship to the Netherlands. You could probably find eneloops on that side of the pond though.

They ask about $35 for shipping! I dont think so.
Could find an other shop that sells them and ships them to the netherlands

And over here they cost twice as much so that isnt that good aswell

any help on where to buy them cheap??
have googeld a lot but no succes..

smopoim86 · May 13, 2008

I was afraid that the shipping would be crazy high. I don't know of anywhere else, GL in your search.

You might try something like http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=141638

Fixmaster-J · May 13, 2008

smopoim86 said:
I was afraid that the shipping would be crazy high. I don't know of anywhere else, GL in your search.

You might try something like http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=141638

Hmm dont think that will work. Im not sure why eneloops cant be sent to the netherlands via amazone but that sucks!
Guess i have to pay the top price to get some..
Tnx anyway

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