Cree XQ-B and XQ-D LEDs

itsdonny · Apr 2, 2013

I have a battery powered project that I'm working on that involves using some LEDs around the 0.5 watt area. I really like the new XQ-B and D LEDs but they aren't directional. Can I effectively get around this with an optic? I was also thinking of using the ML-E but for production I like the size and price point of the XQ-B and D series better. Otherwise if someone can recommend some other LEDs in this power range that would be great.

Thanks,
Don

SemiMan · Apr 2, 2013

itsdonny said:
I have a battery powered project that I'm working on that involves using some LEDs around the 0.5 watt area. I really like the new XQ-B and D LEDs but they aren't directional. Can I effectively get around this with an optic? I was also thinking of using the ML-E but for production I like the size and price point of the XQ-B and D series better. Otherwise if someone can recommend some other LEDs in this power range that would be great.

Thanks,
Don

Don,

You stated you are considering an optic. If you are considering an optic, then size really does not matter as the optic is going to be much better.

XQ-D that said could be used in a reflector, not likely an optic and really are more designed to make use of their natural wide pattern.

It is better you state what you are trying to accomplish: beam intensity or brightness on target, target size/distance and/or desired beam angle, etc.

Without knowing what you are trying to accomplish, any response you get is not going to be a good one no matter how well meaning.

Semiman

itsdonny · Apr 2, 2013

Thank you, Semiman. What I'm trying to do is illuminate a object from different angles and different distances. The distance ranges from 1-2.5 feet. For testing I've been using some LEDs that are apparently emitting about 80lm. These are going through a typical 90° 20mm optic. I am happy with this light output but there is a some wasted light around the edges. What I would like to do is design an optic to make an elliptical pattern to redirect this otherwise wasted light. I think for the elliptical pattern I would like to see 90° x 45°. There is no exact measurement since the subject will change in size and shape, but this range will get me well within the ballpark. I don't know the exact brightness on target but the 80lm LEDs I've been using do the job. Brighter in this case is welcome, but I need to keep the cost down which is why I liked the XQ-B and D chips.

Thanks!
Don

bshanahan14rulz · Apr 3, 2013

is bright and white light necessary? some high flux LEDs (read superflux style, or piranha style, 50-70mA, so brighter than 5mm, but definitely not at high power brightness) come with elliptical outputs at 44x88 degrees. LumiLEDs used to only make 'em with their color chips, but you may be able to find some china brand with elliptical lens.

But yeah, these are neither bright, nor white.

SemiMan · Apr 3, 2013

itsdonny said:
Thank you, Semiman. What I'm trying to do is illuminate a object from different angles and different distances. The distance ranges from 1-2.5 feet. For testing I've been using some LEDs that are apparently emitting about 80lm. These are going through a typical 90° 20mm optic. I am happy with this light output but there is a some wasted light around the edges. What I would like to do is design an optic to make an elliptical pattern to redirect this otherwise wasted light. I think for the elliptical pattern I would like to see 90° x 45°. There is no exact measurement since the subject will change in size and shape, but this range will get me well within the ballpark. I don't know the exact brightness on target but the 80lm LEDs I've been using do the job. Brighter in this case is welcome, but I need to keep the cost down which is why I liked the XQ-B and D chips.

Thanks!
Don

Are you planning to make these in the 10's of thousands? If not, then cost of LED is going to be inconsequential to the rest of the design. Circuit boards, optics, mounts, batteries, electronics, etc. add up and will cost significantly more than the LED.

There are elliptical optics out there, just not sure in the pattern you are looking for. I would do a wide search as again, unless you are building a ton of these, custom optics is not going to happen.

Semiman

itsdonny · Apr 3, 2013

Thanks, bshanahan14rulz. I found this video that shows their brightness and I unfortunately they aren't bright enough. Also for this part of the project they do have to be white LEDs Thank you for your input though!

SemiMan, yes I am planning on making thousands of these so I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as possible. It seems like it would be possible to design an optic that basically looked just like a typical 5mm LED with a cavity on the bottom where I could just epoxy the XQ-D into the hole. This would essentially eliminate the properties of the square cap optic of the XQ-D since the epoxy would fill the gaps and combine it with the new optic for a different light pattern. I don't know if I'm being clear 100%.

bshanahan14rulz · Apr 3, 2013

Maybe you could find some cheap glass rod and see if you can get a usable pattern from that and some LEDs that are more forward-directional than the XQ's. If that pattern isn't too wide for you, or if you can use a combination of optics, I would bet that you could get some glass rods for relatively cheaper than some custom TIRs. Drawback: the final device is gonna be ugly as stink.

Also, if you have a junked LCD screen that is side lit, some interesting filters are in there. I think I remember even a few wide line-width diffraction gratings, that would make a series of dots with a laser, but I don't know what it would do with an LED.

So, yeah, those are my redneck hacky ideas.

Ok, I'll butt out now and let Semi take over, he's much more experienced, I just rip things apart

SemiMan · Apr 3, 2013

itsdonny said:
Thanks, bshanahan14rulz. I found this video that shows their brightness and I unfortunately they aren't bright enough. Also for this part of the project they do have to be white LEDs Thank you for your input though!

SemiMan, yes I am planning on making thousands of these so I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as possible. It seems like it would be possible to design an optic that basically looked just like a typical 5mm LED with a cavity on the bottom where I could just epoxy the XQ-D into the hole. This would essentially eliminate the properties of the square cap optic of the XQ-D since the epoxy would fill the gaps and combine it with the new optic for a different light pattern. I don't know if I'm being clear 100%.

Sounds easy but is not. For one epoxy tends to yellow with blue LED light (and heat). Then again, if you fill an optical void you change the properties of the LED, the optic, etc. You will need to hire someone who knows what they are doing and knows where to get things made. With white LEDs you have the further issue of avoiding color artifacts.

Semiman

itsdonny · Apr 5, 2013

Thanks, Semiman. I'll work on a solution and let you know the outcome if you're interested.

SemiMan · Apr 5, 2013

itsdonny said:
Thanks, Semiman. I'll work on a solution and let you know the outcome if you're interested.

In terms of cost with good quality, the Nichia 183 (use 6 small die) are about the cheapest high quality device in this power level. The issue is they are not as easy to make an optic for.

Some of the "1/2" watt units can be pushed up to the 80 lumen range as well. Since you are battery powered, I would expect the total on time over the life of the device to be fairly low.

Semiman

islisis · Apr 7, 2013

If possible, I'd like to ask a general question about the XQ series - is there a known reason why they decided to omit it from the usual domed optic package? Was its output too low to merit flashlight consideration? Finally, does anyone think a new small-die cree might follow from this release?

SemiMan · Apr 7, 2013

islisis said:
If possible, I'd like to ask a general question about the XQ series - is there a known reason why they decided to omit it from the usual domed optic package? Was its output too low to merit flashlight consideration? Finally, does anyone think a new small-die cree might follow from this release?

For one, no supplier really cares about flashlights as its a small market.

This product is targeted at general illumination and specifically is designed for a broad and flatter illumination profile.

One has to expect the die is pretty standard.

Semiman

islisis · Apr 7, 2013

Easy to understand answer, thanks

...long live the xr-e

bshanahan14rulz · Apr 8, 2013

Might be nice for backlights or signage. Also, smaller ceramic package should be less prone to mechanical stress than the larger ones.

Cree XQ-B and XQ-D LEDs

itsdonny

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itsdonny

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SemiMan

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itsdonny

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