Junky v Branded

What is this light snobbery of calling lights sold in Costco type outlets as junky.I see new members all the time looking for there first light and generally i direct them to a trade store as in 2014 plenty of decent lights for a fraction of the branded makes.No real point in spending loads of coin on a brand when for 75% reduction approx you can have a fully working non brand with an easy to sort warranty and if you do not become a flashaholic no big outlay.


I collect lights and buy the so called junky lights and they do the intended job of lighting.

Lets see, 50-75% fail rate after 5 years for a no-name flashlight. Do you want to play with those odds when you REALLY need a flashlight? I KNOW my lithium powered high(er) end flashlights will work when I need them to. I used to by no-names because they were smaller than Maglites and cost a lot less (yes I had ONE Maglite back then), but I got tired of them not working after sitting in a drawer for a couple of years. Switched to high end flashlights and never looked back. So what am I going to recommend to someone who wants (needs) a reliable flashlight in their home? A GOOD brand name flashlight, that will work when they need it, preferably lithium powered. Yes, I do have a few no-names I picked up here and there for nothing, and after several years about half do still work, but would I want to have to depend on them, no. And that is exactly what I did over the weekend for a guy I know. I steered him to a brand flashlight I knew and trusted, even though it cost more than he wanted to spend.

mcnair55 said:

........I collect lights and buy the so called junky lights and they do the intended job of lighting.

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Well, sure. You can buy just about anything in life from both ends of the spectrum. The difference is typically you get what you pay for.........better quality, better efficiency, better LED's, better tints, etc....... In the case of most of us on CPF, its a hobby and everyone always pays more for their hobbies.


I can understand why people wouldn't want to pay a lot for a flashlight if they have no interest. My neighbors probably think I'm a little extreme but then again, I think they waste a lot more money on some of their hobbies that I'm not the least bit interested in either.

Thus I tend to keep it mostly to myself and every now and then will tell someone about a great light at a great price. For example the new Fenix E12 might still be considered expensive by many but I look at it as the bare minimum entry into the LED flashlight world. Thus something like that is what I prefer as the entry level to gift lights by a flashaholic.........around the $25ish. It opens them up to a whole new world of flashlights that they may not have even been aware of .

hiuintahs said:

Well, sure. You can buy just about anything in life from both ends of the spectrum. The difference is typically you get what you pay for.........better quality, better efficiency, better LED's, better tints, etc....... In the case of most of us on CPF, its a hobby and everyone always pays more for their hobbies.

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I not sure that you can't paint "everyone" with the same broad brush, there are always going to be differences in how a person treats a hobby whether it be because of financial restrictions or as mcnair55 stated the desire to get the job done for less, every hobby will have members whose interests within that hobby vary greatly, we're not all the same.

Norm

I hope I didn't offend anyone......no intention there. Well let me say that in somewhat agreeance with the OP, I have yet to buy a light over $75. And I know there are a lot of expensive lights out there. There is a line in the sand for me too. Also in my possession is only 1/3rd of the total LED lights that I have bought as I sell the ones I'm not that interested in.

BriteGeek said:

Lets see, 50-75% fail rate after 5 years for a no-name flashlight. Do you want to play with those odds when you REALLY need a flashlight? I KNOW my lithium powered high(er) end flashlights will work when I need them to. I used to by no-names because they were smaller than Maglites and cost a lot less (yes I had ONE Maglite back then), but I got tired of them not working after sitting in a drawer for a couple of years. Switched to high end flashlights and never looked back. So what am I going to recommend to someone who wants (needs) a reliable flashlight in their home? A GOOD brand name flashlight, that will work when they need it, preferably lithium powered. Yes, I do have a few no-names I picked up here and there for nothing, and after several years about half do still work, but would I want to have to depend on them, no. And that is exactly what I did over the weekend for a guy I know. I steered him to a brand flashlight I knew and trusted, even though it cost more than he wanted to spend.

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Show me the fail rate proof as i do not believe it.There is a state of the art company located in Redditch near Birmingham in the UK who sell 1st class lights to the trade.I will gladly buy and use these all day long.

A few quotes from there web site.

Established in 1981 as a lighting supplier, ***** has grown into one of the world's leading flashlight manufacturers in the global illumination market.

It is our relentless pursuit of excellence that has been driving our evolution. We are always eager to embrace new and innovative technology, as evidenced by our shift from tungsten lights to premium advanced LED-based units. But the light source is only part of the package.

We look for improvement in all elements of our manufacturing process, from lenses and reflectors to housings and switches. Every enhancement brings the user experience to a higher level, manifesting ***** ultimate principle: meeting and surpassing user expectation.

With over 30 years trading, ***** has a wealth of experience dealing with a wide and diverse spectrum of businesses. Many of whom are from specialised professional Industries.

An in-house laboratory was set-up for rigorous performance and reliability tests under controlled environments.

So is that a Junky light sold through the trade?

BriteGeek said:

Lets see, 50-75% fail rate after 5 years for a no-name flashlight. Do you want to play with those odds when you REALLY need a flashlight? I KNOW my lithium powered high(er) end flashlights will work when I need them to. I used to by no-names because they were smaller than Maglites and cost a lot less (yes I had ONE Maglite back then), but I got tired of them not working after sitting in a drawer for a couple of years. Switched to high end flashlights and never looked back. So what am I going to recommend to someone who wants (needs) a reliable flashlight in their home? A GOOD brand name flashlight, that will work when they need it, preferably lithium powered. Yes, I do have a few no-names I picked up here and there for nothing, and after several years about half do still work, but would I want to have to depend on them, no. And that is exactly what I did over the weekend for a guy I know. I steered him to a brand flashlight I knew and trusted, even though it cost more than he wanted to spend.

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It's extremely easy to throw figures around with nothing to back them up, let's make this a proper discussion without trying to divide the conversation into us and them with meaningless figures unless you can show proof to back your figures real proof.

Norm

IMHO the good 'ol incan Mini Mag is still the best "cheap" flashlight. Sure it's not as bright as its LED competitors but it is very simple and very reliable. I have been using and abusing Mini Mags for years before I became a flashoholic and literally only two things ever went wrong with them: The bulbs burning out (which is expected and easily replaced), and the batteries leaking.

I generally don't recommend 'junky' lights to anyone. It's not expensive to get a decent flashlight. Take the EO1 for example, it's $10, EDCable, bomb proof, takes a single cell and runs for ages. Sure it's not the brightest, but it's proven and certainly not junk.

Not bright enough?! For an extra $20-$30 (the cost of a meal and a movie), you open up a whole range of decent lights.

For me, anything under $50 is a budget light, and in that price range there's plenty of decent lights available.

Most SolarForce products are excellent values, Ive been carrying a Z1 for a while now, unfortunately it isn't deigned for rechargeable batteries it's a great value little torch, I'm tempted to buy the AA version .

Norm

So far no-one mentioned you don't need either low-cost lights or expensive ones. They are not mutually exclusive.

For some jobs you don't want to bring an expensive light, but rather a cheapo one you won't shed tears over when it's damaged. For some jobs you positively, absolutely want the light to work, for most jobs that's not too important. For some jobs you do want a quality light, but it's not critical if it dies.

Some cheapo lights are decent quality too, and some expensive lights are junk (just less likely to be). In other words: buy whatever flashlight(s) suit you, and bring the right light(s) to whatever job you use 'm for.

mcnair55 said:

What is this light snobbery of calling lights sold in Costco type outlets as junky.

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BriteGeek said:

Lets see, 50-75% fail rate after 5 years for a no-name flashlight. Do you want to play with those odds when you REALLY need a flashlight?

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When you buy lights at Costco, you have to buy 2 or 3 of them in a package. So, you're guaranteed at least one of them is going to work when you need it!

Seriously though, I've got a few flashlights I bought at Costco. They all still work. I've moved on from entry-level lights now, but the Costco ones are still good for stashing around the house in locations I might need a light on infrequent occasions.

I bought LED mag lited from CostCo and they are great.

I also bought some High Output LED lights from them and they were rubbish - the batteries were drained in them in a few weeks, which for general use is unforgivable!

Etsu said:

When you buy lights at Costco, you have to buy 2 or 3 of them in a package. So, you're guaranteed at least one of them is going to work when you need it!

Seriously though, I've got a few flashlights I bought at Costco. They all still work. I've moved on from entry-level lights now, but the Costco ones are still good for stashing around the house in locations I might need a light on infrequent occasions.

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+1.
Costco lights work fine for what they are, but many people look for other selling points as well. Dual AR mineral lenses, HAIII finish, forward clickies vs. parasitic electronic switches, selector rings, current vs pwm regulation, capability to use higher capacity cells, more brightness and functions, you name it. Many people are willing shell the extra coin for the extra features. There's light SNOBBERY (elitism), then there's LIGHT snobbery (titanium trits etc.) I am guilty of the first one and for good reason: the less informed and less demanding consumer will swear to what they get for what THEY feel is the best deal vs. the inherent value and quality that higher end flashlights exude.

If you won't be abusing your light too much (couple drops a month) and are just looking for lumens/dollar, then a Cheap light may be for you. If you are looking for something that sacrifices max brightness for max runtime and is bombproof, there may not be anything in this world that will fit your need however much you pay.

I dare say that all of us are guilty of snobbery, spoken or not. The budget minded crowd will pompously claim "ha-ha, I paid the least for how bright this light is". The lavish crowd will condescendingly claim "ha-ha, my light is titanium /gold/ stainless and it has trits in fifty places, and it offers unparalleled visibility at night, and it is literally bomb/emp proof." In other words, everybody needs to calm the fudge down and not worry about what anyone says; we are each entitled to our own preference and opinions.

I have used Maglite for 35 years I guess and if it were not for the terrible battery life in the AA models I had been using a few years ago I would still have them as an EDC.

I started carrying a Surefire G2 and then quickly rethought my situation and have not really looked back.

The AA Mag LED though is a great light and never let me down as long as I had fresh batteries on hand. They are ubiquitous for sure and if bought from a big home center easily exchanged as soon as they might break too.

There is also a too real element I have found where "Ignorance is Bliss" don't you think?

Thus we are here!

Reasons to avoid so called budget lights from big box type stores:
Ingress Protection Rating, CCT, Regulation circuitry, Choice of power source, Anodization, Knurling-too harsh, too soft, Weak plastic body construction, Quality of threads, Quality of o-rings.
If you want something that isn't crap, you start at $25.
But if you like the 'disposable' lifestyle, have at it.

The UK has plenty of trade stores all offering a range of tools to the working trade which include flash lights,most on here have never heard of the brands because there intended end user is a professional tradesman but i can ensure you they are in every way as good as the brands we all love to collect on here.

From left to right

Angle light 3 mode single AA cell
AAA cell single mode clicky switch
Triple mode 18650,charged by plugging torch into charger.

All above bought from trade stores and no issues

IMO Maglights are the ideal choice between price and quality, all my Maglights are problem free after years of use (hard use on some of them). On the top end of lights I've had an HDS that made it about two years before dying and on the low end I've had a cheap-o light from sears that rolled of a table, dropped a few feet, and died instantly. They all can fail. From a practical point, multiple middle of the road lights are, IMO, the ideal choice. They're less prone to failure but if/when they do it's not as disappointing, the specs aren't the best but they're good enough, for the price of one high end light you can stock multiple mid range lights which practically eliminates the possibility of being without a light when needed. I do like the higher end lights though, although to me they're still tools and I'm only willing to spend so much on one. My current HDS is the most expensive one I have and I can't see myself paying a higher price point then that for a flashlight again.

Quality control is significantly better on name brand lights than on "wallyworld" lights with perhaps Maglite being the exception to the rule, But they have had a LOOONNGG time to find and fix any issues where some lights are designed on paper and immediately put into production and on the shelves with no concern on longivity issues once out the store door.

smokinbasser said:

Quality control is significantly better on name brand lights than on "wallyworld" lights with perhaps Maglite being the exception to the rule, But they have had a LOOONNGG time to find and fix any issues where some lights are designed on paper and immediately put into production and on the shelves with no concern on longivity issues once out the store door.

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Why is it? Do you have inside information about the quality control.Tomorrow I will be pushing a AAA cell cob light to the trade as part of my job, I will be focusing the light all through February and it is in my best interest that we get very few returns as I work on commission.