New Arc switch type.

Just a suggestion, but why not research an all together different kind of switch for the Arc as opposed to the twist type? There are several other alternatives that wouldn't allow the head to fall off or be a pain to turn on or off. I'm not sure how hard it would be to use a different type of switch, but from what almost everyone has been saying on this forum, the twist type switch is the most unpopular and difficult switch type to work with. Couldn't it use a magnetic switch or a recessed push button switch? I'm just trying to brainstorm a little. I'm sure there are a lot of good ideas that others could share on this subject also. Let's try to "think outside the box" and possibly come up with something totally new. How about it guys? Let's help Peter come up with some ideas to build a better switch for the Arc that will last for years without breaking (unlike the current switch that seems to be prone to failure in a relatively short time). An improved Arc switch design would be good for everyone, and now that I've found a source of AAA alkalines for only .15 apiece I want even more to see an improved Arc.

The push button switch really does sound good...but looking at the light I don`t see how it could be done...are you thinking of having it so the batt goes in from the bottom? With a micro switch near the head similar to the a Mag lite?

KenB: That sort of thing is a terrific idea and just the sort of input I was hoping for. Also just before I went to sleep last night, I had another idea that might or might not be really cool. Are you guys familiar with a resistance type switch? With that type of switch, all you would have to do is to touch 2 metal dots on the light and the resistance of your thumb (or mouth, as the case may be) would turn it on. Of course, the dots would have to be recessed in some manner so that a key couldn't accidentally touch them and turn it on (perhaps use 4 dots instead of 2 so that a key couldn't accidentally touch them all and turn it on), but it could be made to work both easily and cheaply. Just another idea to throw into the brainstorm. Come on guys, let's have those ideas.

Maybe a rear momentary on switch like on Surefires. Their switches are simple and reliable. The only thing I don't like is the fact that you lose your lanyard ring, or atleast are forced to put a lanyard ring in an awkward place somewhere so that the light won't hang vertically if you want it to. BTW, I was thinking of a switch that would be useful for the eventual ultra bright LED lights that will come out, and whether one could design a dimmer switch that gets progressively brighter as you screw it tighter. I was wondering if anyone has heard of metals whose surface properties allow for decreased resistance as you increase the pressure. Probably not an issue for the Arc, but food for thought for the future.

Hmm, no I haven`t seen this switch. Sounds neat though. I wonder how small they are and where they can be seen. Still, he problem of touching keys...I don`t know how that could be overcome...maybe a plastic sleeve that would slip down over the switch when not in use?

Interesting idea Guy, the Baton light has a switch similar to what you are discribing...and the key ring is still at the rear...works very well. It would make the Ark a little longer and I`m not sure how well it would work scaled down...might be great...

I have not seen a veriable switch like you are discribing...maybe on Star Treck...would be great though...who knows what the future holds...how do those touch lamps work, the one`s that run off 120 volts A/C?

The touch lamps have electronic circuits. I don't know about the specifics though.

Wow, I am impressed with this interest in helping improve the design!

One of major goals of the Arc was to keep it as small as possible. Otherwise it wouldn't be as comfortable on the key ring.

I can't see how the size could be kept the same with other switch ideas. If we mount a switch on the side (like some key chain laser pointers), the length of the flashlight is increased. If we mount it on the rear, same thing.

Variations on touch switches, magnetic reed switches, ir remotes, dimmers, etc add to the complexity of the circuit, but more importantly, there is simply no room for more circuitry in the current housing. Again, we would have to increase its size.

I still think the best bet is to refine the "twist on" switch we currently are using.

But I like to keep my options open. If anyone comes up with a better idea other than the twist switch, and we use it, we will give them 5 flashlights using the new design (what better reward for genius than to actually hold the fruits of your labor in your hand?).

Thanks!

Peter Gransee

"How do those touch lamps work?"

They work on a version of the resistance switch that I was discussing earlier, but they have to have constant power sent to them to accomplish this. It might not be best to use that exact type when used with batteries, but who knows, it could be the way to go. That could overcome the "key" problem.

Guy: That is a very good idea you had also. IMO, that is one thing that is seriously lacking in almost all LED flashlights is a variable brightness control. I mean variable resisters are very cheap and easy to implement so I don't know why more LED flashlights don't use them. Just put one in the but of the light and seal it off with epoxy so that you have a waterproof switch that can be used without loosening and tightening the flashlight head at all.

This is great stuff guys. Keep those ideas coming.

Gransee: Wow, what a deal! That gives me even more incentive to come up with something neat than the $.15 AAA alkalines I found to use in it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by X-CalBR8:
Gransee: Wow, what a deal! That gives me even more incentive to come up with something neat than the $.15 AAA alkalines I found to use in it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So... Where did you find these 15 cent AAA's?

Peter Gransee

I would also like to see a ARC version with a tail cap switch, Surefire or Streamlight style. Of all the lights I have the Surefire switch is the easiest to use and I have never had a problem with them working. I wouldn't mind the light being a bit longer, but not fatter. However I bet most people have it on a key chain or lanyard and a tail cap switch would make that harder.

Peter do you have a Streamlight Stylus? I like the way they have done the switch without adding much lenght.

Brock

Peter: For the $.15 alkaline batteries check the post named "Li-Ion AA batts for only $1 each!." I posted all the links on that post. I just got done ordering a dozen at that price and they were in stock! Better grab some Lithium AA's to while you are at it because at $1.00 per battery they are going mega-quick. I ordered 10 packs and after that they only had 70 packs left. Now we just need an AA version of the Arc to use them in.

I've put a lot of thought into this and I think I came up with the prize-winning design. Drill a hole through the outside upper portion of the Arc body just before the joint where the top of the light screws on, then weld on a microswitch. It could be either a temporary on type such as a laser pointer, or better yet an on-off microswitch. With this type of design, it could still easily be made waterproof by welding the switch on, or by epoxying it on. The light, as a whole, would probably be way more waterproof with this idea since you could then use the heavier O-Ring because it would then only be used to install the battery and not to turn the light on and off so it wouldn't matter how hard it was to turn. Another thing that you mentioned as a condition is that you don't want to make the light any longer, and with this plan you wouldn't have to make the light any longer at all, because the only part of the switch that would extend inside of the light would be the wires running from the switch. The switch itself would be mounted on the outside of the light and would stick out no further than those used on laser pointers that most people seem very happy with. With the right kind of switch, nothing of the switch itself would have to extend inside of the light (except for the wires of course) and the light length could remain the exact same as it is now. So, what do you think Peter, do we have a winner?

K Horn: I respect your opinion and I'm sure it's a sentiment shared by some others also, but to me and many others, it is a big deal when the head of a $25.00 (+ shipping) flashlight falls off and gets lost, thereby rendering a rather expensive little light totally useless, or that the rubber gasket tears after about 50 uses. The suggestions that we have been making of late aren't of a "cosmetic" nature just to make the Arc look like a Surefire or any other brand of light, but to take proven functionality from other real life cases and apply it to, what is in most other respects, a very nice little keychain light. There are also the issues of ease of use that come into play that have nothing to do with cosmetics. From what others have posted again and again, I believe that the twist type switch is the single most unpopular switch type that there is. So why not take ideas that have proven themselves to work over the long haul and that have proven to be popular with the greatest numbers of people? It would save a lot of research (time and money) and please many more people to use a switch type that is well liked and proven to last for years. I don't mean to belittle your opinion, or anyone else's on this forum, by posting this but only to share a differing opinion that I think many people would agree with, at least in some respects, if not all.

X-CalBR8 I didn't mean to come off as not respecting your opinion.
There are some realities that are being overlooked. The twist on/off switch may be unpopular but it is a very cost effective way of making a water-proof switch. You start putting holes in things and you need to find a way to fill them up to keep the water out.
I wanted a small light at a reasonable cost and I got one. Yes it may need another twist in the treads, but overall I'm satisfied.

I'm still waiting for my order. Can't believe you guys are already talking about how great your lights are or what sort of improvements can be made, and I'm still waiting to hold one. But that's not going to stop me giving my $0.09 (stupid exchange rate)

From what I've read, the reason why the current Arcs are loosing their heads is because when you twist it far enough to switch it off, the gasket is already close to coming out of the housing. It was suggested that the housing be lengthened slightly to accomodate a few extra turns. I second that idea. Just another 2 turns can make a world of difference. I don't think that would increase the length too much. Besides, so long as it is not much different in size from the Maglite Solitaire, I think it would still be acceptable.

Another is the use of 0-rings instead of gaskets. Diving torches use o-rings all the time. They seal well against multiple activations and can be replaced easily when worn. A little bit of silicone grease also helps to make it more water-resistant while at the same time reducing the force needed to turn it. The user can decide how tight he wants it and apply the grease accordingly. The difficulty here is finding a size of o-ring to use that is commonly available. I would guess taking a look in the local hardware store's plumbing department might help more than looking at your local dive store. Mainly because plumbing is more common than diving, but also because most diving gear would use o-rings a little too large for the Arc. (The smallest I'd seen in the the dive shop was for the regulator to tank assembly and that would fit a AA size of light.) BTW, the o-ring should be a little tight and need to be stretched by 1mm-2mm when fitted. This ensures proper fit and seating.

Another thing is the position of the o-ring, in case the commonly available sizes don't quite fit your current designed size. You can either situate it where it currently is, which I believe is in the middle of the head. Or you can move it to the end of the head, closer to the battery, so that the o-ring is the first part to go in to the housing. That would give you a design leeway of at least 2-3mm. I can send you a scan of a drawing of what I mean if you wish.

When the Arc is switched off, the battery is no longer being held by the contact and this allows it to rattle around inside. Pelican have solved this problem in their Mighty Lite series by using a spring shod with a plastic shoe. The shoe fits to the end of the spring pressing on the battery and insulates the spring from the battery. But when the torch is screwed to the on position, the spring compresses and the contact nib travels through the centre of the spring and contacts the battery. The added advantage of having the spring is that it provides a force against the threads all the time. This would keep the head from rotating loosely when the Arc is turned off.

Phew... more than $0.09 worth. Email me if there are any points you need to clarify. A picture paints a thousand words but I don't know how to put it up on the web, so if needed, I will send drawings by email.

Gransee, good luck with MOD2.
BTW, with only 5 hours runtime in the AAA model, have you thought about offering a AA model for longer runtime? I would certainly buy both as I have differing uses for each.

What about this compromise? For everyone that still wants to keep the twist type switch, here is a possibly better way of doing it. Put in a spring loaded head with a very tiny metal dowel that would lock into an on position and an off position and in order to change the batteries you push the head in and turn another notch counter-clockwise. Since Honesty.com has started to charge for picture hosting (anybody know of another good free picture host please drop me an email) I suppose ASCI art will have to suffice. Something like the following. /-\/-\| | Where each /-\ appears would be a an on and an off position that the metal dowel would rest in to hold it's exact position, with the spring loaded head holding it in position. Where the | | appears would be the place the tiny metal dowel built into the head would be allowed to completely slip through when you press in on the head and turn counterclockwise to allow for the removal of the head for battery replacement. What do you think? Just another alternative to consider, but I think I would still much prefer a Micro-switch if it could be managed. I have yet to find a switch that I like better than the simple, click once for on and click again for off, type switch. The Energizer double-barrel being my personal favorite of this type of switch that I've found to date. Even a Photon 2 style slide switch would be well liked by most people I believe (considering how many fans of the Photon 2 there are). A Photon 2 style Slide switch could also be mounted on the outside of the light and not increase the length at all, and as every Photon 2 light owner knows, the switch is stiff enough that it's not very likely at all that it would accidentally turn on in one's pocket. So, what are everyone's thoughts on this latest round of brainstorming? Peter: What do you think? Can we call a winner yet? Hehe.

excellent reply, k horn. what we need here is a switch like in the mag-lites that fell into "the incredible shrinking machine". the twist-on switches are getting a bad rep, minietureization (is that a word?) costs a ton of dough!

Wow, a lot of fantastic ideas, and I think they should all be looked into...for the moment though, I really think just copying the Solitare design (thread and "o" ring) is what should be done, easy, quick and effective. If this should prove to be impractical (patented (call the patent holder you may find it`s abig company who might be interested in purchasing the hole product rights from you, you could then be free to really come up with another killer product, but with some capital now) or unable to be programed into the assembly machine, I would look at the Infinity)...although I love "out of the box thinking" I do not believe now is the time to go off on a hole new thought. But in the future.....