some questions about flashlights..

hi everyone, i'm pretty new here but have been very much enjoying all the info on flashlights and lasers. i have a few questions i was hoping some of you might clear up for me. forgive me if the answers are already on the forum somewhere. anyway my first question is about bulbs, with LED's working so well - bright light, durability, low energy consumption - why do some high-end lights still come with incandescant bulbs? what is the advantage, if any? also, what is the typical lumen output of say a $5.00 2 C battery cheapie flashlight? and lastly, what size are lithium 123 batteries equivalent to dimension-wise, if any - AA maybe?
i have a favorite 6 volt ray-o-vac flashlight BTW, which i just ordered a replacement LED bulb for (it's incandescent now) from one of this site's sponsors. looking forward to seeing how it changes the light output. anyway all replies appreciated.

First, WELCOME TO CPF!!!!!!

Second, incans. and HID (High Intensity Discharge) lights are FAR brighter than the LED technologies we have today. That is the main reason why expensive bright lights use incandescents and HID. HID mostly (because HID is expensive and can drive up prices very quickly). The advantage of HID is that it dosn't get hot (because they usually only use 35 watts of power)and they use very little battery power and are very efficient.(that's good if you are out in the middle of no-where and need a light thats gonna run for a long time. Somewhat like LEDs runtime, but much brighter for the same (or close to same) efficiency.) Incans. are cool just because they have raw instant power. (HID takes time, usually 6-20 seconds, to get to full brightness). You'll see that the most powerful lights on CPF are incans. The Sleeper and the Ken5 are the brightest things around and they are incans.

Thirdly, the lumen output of a cheapie 2c light is probably around 60+ lumens (I think). (Also, a 2AA or 2D would put out the same amount of lumens in the beginning because they are all 1.5 volts. 2D would just last longer).

Fourthly, Lithium 123 batteries are about a half inch shorter than a AA. (maybe a bit wider than a AA, I don't remember)

Good luck with the Ray-o-Vac /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif You should probably see a fairly big difference in the performance with the LEDs in it. A difference in color should be VERY apparant. (sorry for my spelling)

thanks a lot for that info and the welcome. i appreciate the response. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
as i'm learning more about lights i plan on adding something pretty nice to the rayovac, mostly for camping. there are a lot of really nice lights out there i've noticed, some of them works of art. i'm probably gonna go with a plastic/lexan cased design. although i think the aluminum lights are nice i dont like the weight some seem to have.
i really like the "expedition star" shown on the same site i bought the LED replacement bulb, thinking about getting that. other suggestions are welcome by all.
i was surprised BTW, to hear of the HID's being brighter than LEDs. i was sure it was the other way around, LOL! also wanted to say this is a really neat forum, i had no idea there people out there this interested in flashlights, or that such super quality flashlights we're even available.

Yup, CPF is an amazing hom....I mean place /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, I believe the Expedition LS4 is MUCH brighter than the star model.

Actually, a cheapie 2c light is no where near 60 lumens... i doubt its even half of that.... the surefire e2e is rated at about 60 lumens and is more comparable to a 4 cell light.

Oh yea... welcome to CPF! Leave your wallet and credit cards with the wife if you have one... actually I could use a new light... leave em with me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Welcome to you shimmeringtrance!!!

The Rayovac 6V may not be quite as bright after the LED, but should be very nice of color and beam shape.

A good consideration for camping might be an Opalec 3 LED drop in for a Minim*g. About 8 hours in regulation with many more of slowly dimming light. Not super bright, but then in total dark you don't need much!

Along the same lines in a plastic light is a Princeton Tech Attitude 4AAA 3LED light.

We have a LOT of other good ones to tell you about too!

You might want to burn your wallet now, before it's too late! If you stay long, you'll be amazed how much you'll spend!

Ask any question, and someone will have the answer. And in the Cafe, it can be about almost anything and someone knows!

You are entering here with too, too much enthusiasm, HIDE YOUR WALLET NOW! Eh, you'll have fun and be amazed at how MUCH FLASHLIGHT NON-SENSE THERE IS IN THIS WORLD! For example, did you know people spend 1800-2800 DOLLARS (Maxabeam to the Beast) for flashlights? Laugh now, but soon you'll be under the mind-control and thinking seriously about these lights, I'm sorry to tell you this, but that's just the way it happens.

Oh, and WELCOME! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There I go again giving out false information......where did I read that? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

I think back when some arcs when off to get 'real' lumen ratings they sent some cheapie lights with it, and a few mags, along with a couple of Surefires ect, if my memory is correct, the cheapie light was 10ish lumens while the 2D Mag was in the range of 16 lumens.

If you have a 2AA Mag that should be in the range of 5-8 lumens when it has fresh batteries. Welcome to CPF, and remember, just buy both /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
shimmeringtrance said:
anyway my first question is about bulbs, with LED's working so well - bright light, durability, low energy consumption - why do some high-end lights still come with incandescant bulbs? what is the advantage, if any?

[/ QUOTE ]

High output LEDs are pretty recent developments. LEDs are great - they are more efficient the less power you supply to them. But think about that for a moment - that must mean that they are conversely LESS efficient the MORE power you supply to them. So at higher output's, incandescent lights have a distinct advantage. Incandescent lights are also frequently less expensive. Brighter + cheaper is a powerful combo. Incandescent's also produce light across the whole spectrum - LED's tend to produce relatively little red. So many feel that incandescents are less likely to be washed out by ambient background lighting, and that they cut through smoke better. I personally don't know if that's because of the spectrum of the lights, or because the high-end ones are just a lot brighter.

LEDs do have the advantages you mention - they just aren't the brightest lights available. If bright is what you need, especially at the expense of runtime, then incand's usually win. It's just about what tradeoffs are important to you.

thanks for all the welcomes and suggestions, i appreciate it very much. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
on the wallet comments, i hear you! just what i needed, another cool expensive hobby to suck up my money, LOL! as i said above some of these flashlights really are gorgeous, and i always appreciate high quality in anything. never thought i'd care to own a flashlight that cost more than 10 bucks, but clearly it's worth the money to buy something really well made. lot's of technology out there these days in lighting. i'm gonna consider all the suggestions above before i decide what to buy. probably end up owning 3 or 4 of them in the end, LOL!

Get REAL ! Cheapie $5 or less C or D Flashlights Are lucky to put out 3 Lumens! Even stock minimag- 5 lumens.
Anyway, welcome. Guard your wallet, lock away your credit cards and don't get a PayPal account. They don't call us "Flashaholics" for nothing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

I am ready right now to pop $1000 for a USED flashlight if the deal comes thru....


NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

An Arc lamp is the Spark that takes away the Dark--HID Forever!

My Lights LightWar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxgun.gif

well hey i got my LED replacement bulb today, i'm stoked. my rayovac 4 cell puts out a great beam now, very clean and white and BRIGHT! i'm amazed at the difference. i'm also thinking of getting an inova t3 (i think it's called) here pretty soon. i hear a lot of good reviews about that light. so many cool choices out there these days. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hello!

-tom