Are they really IP-X8?

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CocoMonGo

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Hi all I'm a newbie in the house. I have been looking around for a new flashlight since my last cheapo 21x 5mm LED didn't seem to have the throw i wanted.

The thing that interest me most that many (if not all) of the manufacturers I have visited (Fenix, Tiablo, Nitecore, etc) have said their products are "Waterproof to IPX-8". This struck me because I work in an industry that commonly use the IP rating standard (FYI its IEC 60529). This would mean the light can be submerged in water indefinitely to the manufacturer's defined depth. I would not use this as a diving light thats for sure. But I do use it for jungle/rain forest trekking/waterfall hunting which would pretty much guarantee water presence 24/7 (couple of meter if i have to swim across the river).

Question is: How deep are we talking about 10m? 100m? And has anybody tested "indefinite"?

Probably a nit-picking question, but I doubt any of us want our flashlights becoming water bottles after only being in 2m of water. :grin2:
 
to be short, the IPX8 standard is pretty much next to meaningLESS in practice when under water. This is because the standard is set under static water pressure, but in all situation except a controlled environment, the torch would experience dynamic water pressure. (i.e. an accelerating force acting upon the light)

From experience, all of the popular brands in CPF is very likely to be able to survive a snorkeling trip, not sure for the more intense underwater environments though.

Also, next time when you have standard simple question like these, you might want to use the search function. :welcome:
 
In and of itself, I consider an IPX-8 rating to mean nothing more than a light is splashproof. You'd be well advised to do the same. This isn't to say that there aren't so called IPX-8 lights out there that can survive submerging for considerable periods. But their ability to do so really has nothing to do with a "standard" that is, by definition, meaningless. Bottom line- consider IPX-8 to be a marketing ploy and trust only the clearly defined waterproof ratings published by known and respected manufacturers.
 
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Bronco said:
In and of itself, I consider an IPX-8 rating to mean nothing more than a light is splashproof. You'd be well advised to do the same. This isn't to say that there aren't so called IPX-8 lights out there that can survive submerging for considerable periods. But their ability to do so really has nothing to do with a "standard" that is meaningless. Bottom line- consider IPX-8 to be a meaningless marketing ploy and trust only the clearly defined waterproof ratings published by known and respected manufacturers.
Click to expand...

x2:D
 
CocoMonGo said:
Hi all I'm a newbie in the house. I have been looking around for a new flashlight since my last cheapo 21x 5mm LED didn't seem to have the throw i wanted.

The thing that interest me most that many (if not all) of the manufacturers I have visited (Fenix, Tiablo, Nitecore, etc) have said their products are "Waterproof to IPX-8". This struck me because I work in an industry that commonly use the IP rating standard (FYI its IEC 60529). This would mean the light can be submerged in water indefinitely to the manufacturer's defined depth. I would not use this as a diving light thats for sure. But I do use it for jungle/rain forest trekking/waterfall hunting which would pretty much guarantee water presence 24/7 (couple of meter if i have to swim across the river).

Question is: How deep are we talking about 10m? 100m? And has anybody tested "indefinite"?

Probably a nit-picking question, but I doubt any of us want our flashlights becoming water bottles after only being in 2m of water. :grin2:
Click to expand...


You still seem to have a number of misconceptions about the meaning of IPX8.

"Indefinite" relates to the requirement of time and depth, given the condition is more than IPX7 (1M for 30 min). To quality for IPX8, it just has to be more severe in those by some small amount, as dictated by the manufacturer's conditions.

In short, consider it means "splashproof" until proven otherwise by other user experience.

I suggest you read this:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229090
 
Bronco said:
In and of itself, I consider an IPX-8 rating to mean nothing more than a light is splashproof. You'd be well advised to do the same. This isn't to say that there aren't so called IPX-8 lights out there that can survive submerging for considerable periods. But their ability to do so really has nothing to do with a "standard" that is, by definition, meaningless. Bottom line- consider IPX-8 to be a marketing ploy and trust only the clearly defined waterproof ratings published by known and respected manufacturers.
Click to expand...
Oh my God, you are so right, I havent noticed it until now.
I just checked one well known and respected manufacturer and those 150$ backups are only weatherproof.

150$ from a flashlight that is only weatherproof?
 
GUARANTEED weatherproof.

Does it make you feel better that way?:D
Egsise said:
Oh my God, you are so right, I havent noticed it until now.
I just checked one well known and respected manufacturer and those 150$ backups are only weatherproof.

150$ from a flashlight that is only weatherproof?
Click to expand...
 
This also had been my concern back then...

-Mil-Spec Type III Hard Anodized finish
-Resistance to impact by dropping according to US MIL-STD-810F
-Waterproof to IPX-8 standard

Who's checking them? Who's testing them? Are they being certified by some group? I learned that outside the physical specs (length, width), you take everything else with a huge grain of salt.
 
berry580 said:
GUARANTEED weatherproof.

Does it make you feel better that way?:D
Click to expand...
Umm, aren't the cheapchinesebrand IPX8 also guaranteed?
Water Resistant: IPX8 Static Immersion Test
Click to expand...
Oh sorry that's from Leatherman Serac 3... :whistle:

Anyway...
IPX8 standard is practically meaningless, as it is a static rather than dynamic test. It is a totally useless standard of assessment for any equipment that may need to be actually operated underwater.
Click to expand...

Is guaranteed weatherproof better or worse than IPX8?
 
the way i see it is, try to keep your lights away from water as a general rule; if someone told me my $250 cell phone was waterproof to IPX-8, i wouldn't go diving with it. if you want a light for diving, find a light specifically made for just that. i think most of the popular brands amongst flashaholics are pretty much waterproof, but it still isn't worth the risk. electronics don't like water and we should help keep them safe.

having said that, taking my TK40 swimming with me wasn't the brightest idea, but it was fun and satisfying since it did just fine. a nice test, but never again (on purpose).

if you ever get caught in the rain, or accidentally drop your light in the water, you should have no problems.
 
Egsise said:
Umm, aren't the cheapchinesebrand IPX8 also guaranteed?
Click to expand...
Well there's a lot to a light than JUST waterproof.
If you think the light wasn't worth its price, then I think you might want to do more research next time before chucking down $250.


burntoshine said:
the way i see it is, try to keep your lights away from water as a general rule; if someone told me my $250 cell phone was waterproof to IPX-8, i wouldn't go diving with it. if you want a light for diving, find a light specifically made for just that. i think most of the popular brands amongst flashaholics are pretty much waterproof, but it still isn't worth the risk. electronics don't like water and we should help keep them safe.
[...]
if you ever get caught in the rain, or accidentally drop your light in the water, you should have no problems.
Click to expand...
+1

There's not much dive lights that I know of, and all of the ones that I've seen so far, their bang for buck isn't too good.... unless you REALLY are going for diving with it.
 
berry580 said:
Well there's a lot to a light than JUST waterproof.
If you think the light wasn't worth its price, then I think you might want to do more research next time before chucking down $250.
Click to expand...
Wat?
250$?
I know that 4Sevens Quarks are definitely worth every penny, if I had 250$ i could get a few titanium versions too.
Yeah I know that some highly respected flashlight manufacturers have outstanding warranty policy, but you mean theres more than that?
 
Warranty is one, built quality, attention to details, design (i.e. looks), user interface, output/runtime efficiency etc etc.
Waterproofness is just one very small aspect of a light, in fact, I think many people would be satisfied with splash proof, and not much people would value offerings that's anymore capable than that.

As with 4sevens' Quark offerings, their designs (looks) deserve a nil., but they do have a lot of promising offers. But i think it is still be too early to judge them.
Egsise said:
Wat?
250$?
I know that 4Sevens Quarks are definitely worth every penny, if I had 250$ i could get a few titanium versions too.
Yeah I know that some highly respected flashlight manufacturers have outstanding warranty policy, but you mean theres more than that?
Click to expand...
 
berry580 said:
Warranty is one, built quality, attention to details, design (i.e. looks), user interface, output/runtime efficiency etc etc.
Waterproofness is just one very small aspect of a light, in fact, I think many people would be satisfied with splash proof, and not much people would value offerings that's anymore capable than that.

As with 4sevens' Quark offerings, their designs (looks) deserve a nil., but they do have a lot of promising offers. But i think it is still be too early to judge them.
Click to expand...
Yes you are probably right, I know a lot of people that think Coast Led Lenser flashlights are the best.

They are a little overpriced and rated only as weatherproof.
But I guess that many people think that because they are "Made/designed in Germany",
it is the best flashlight brand.
 
Even just a splash resistant watch is usually pressure rated to an equivalent depth underwater of 100 feet. Watches safe for swimming, that depth is closer to 150 feet. This is to account for dynamic water pressure, which may be much greater than the static water pressure at any given depth. Generally, IPX8 rated lights are not usually tested beyond 1m depth, static pressure only, so it's a meaningless rating. Just don't go diving, and you'll be fine. I'll go out on a limb and say most lights are probably safe to swim with if you don't go all insane waving it around underwater, and don't actuate the switch w/the light submerged.
 
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waterproof is no rocket science. Just make sure the o-rings are in good condition, everything is screwed tight, and chances are it'll be fine. Common sense prevails.
 
IPX-6 is the dynamic splash test. Even IPX-2 could be considered weather resistant. IPX-8 just means that it can be submersed indefinitely but that should be considered as in a bowl of water -- no depth is specified in the standard.

None of the IPX standards are sufficient for a dive light.

Rick.
 
Fenix TK10: 2 hours at 8 feet with no leaks.
Fenix PD30: 1 hour at 8 feet with no leaks

SureFire E1B: 2 hours at 8 feet with no leaks.
SureFire E2DL: Tailcap leaked somewhere within 2 hours.
SureFire E2DL with E1B Tailcap: 2 hours at 8 feet with no leaks.

The Fenix lights are IPX8 rated and I think they are good.
The SureFire lights don't have ratings but the E2DL tailcap is a leaker.

This is all I can tell you. The E2DL tailcap leaks around the rubber boot as far as I know.
 
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