The different varieties of LSD cell

[Mr Happy]

I forgot about that thread. Interesting and perplexing stuff.

From what has been posted in this thread already, there are all sorts of subtle variations between brands of LSD NiMH that muddy the picture of what the origin of any given cell actually is. Perplexing indeed.

When I get a moment I am going to measure the dimensions of the various cells I have, like StandardBattery did above, and then update the first post with those details.

 

[Black Rose]

Rayovac Hybrid
Made in: China
Model#: LD715
Rated: 2100mAh
Diameter: 14.17mm (Top) / 14.12mm (Bottom)
Length: 50.21mm (including nib)
Positive Nib: 5.42mm (Diameter)

Titanium Enduro LSD
Made in: China
Model#: TPEH-TAA2100-ENDURO (Battery Junction)
Rated: 2100mAh
Diameter: 14.13mm (Top) / 14.10mm (Bottom)
Length: 50.24mm (including nib)
Positive Nib: 5.42mm (Diameter)

 

[Bones]

Although the "Made in China" and "2100 mAh" details seem to contradict the Eneloop hypothesis, the preponderance of other evidence suggests otherwise. See this thread for full details.

From my experience of using them, I have no problem considering them Eneloops in everything but name.

Having regard to Mr Happy's findings, we speculated in a prior thread that 'Made in China' might very well refer to the wrapper rather than the cell.

It has since occurred to me that the cells could even have been delivered in bulk to China, and then labelled and exported from there to further legitimize their supposed origin and gain a monetary advantage compared to exporting directly from Japan.

Regardless, if a manufacturer in China was capable of duplicating the Eneloop, prior experience dictates that it would surely have evidenced itself in the performance of a cell other than the Eneloop by now.

 

[UnknownVT]

here's a good comparison pic of the eneloop, RoV Hybrid and Kodak Pre-Charged that's been around for a while - from NLee the Engineer on Amazon

and I just found another by him that may help us with a hint on the Duracell Pre-Charged made in China black tops -

see those 4 vent holes in the black top surround? they look similar to Kodak Pre-Charged and GP ReCyko -

The Wikipedia entry on Low self-discharge NiMH battery currently says:

" actually manufactured by five companies: Sanyo, Gold Peak, Yuasa, Vapex and Uniross.[2][6] "

So maybe there are 5 types?

 

[KowShak]

The Wikipedia entry on Low self-discharge NiMH battery currently says:

" actually manufactured by five companies: Sanyo, Gold Peak, Yuasa, Vapex and Uniross.[2][6] "

So maybe there are 5 types?

Wikipedia is not famed for it's accuracy.

Given the information on this forum and the fact that Uniross is a relatively small player I'd doubt that they're selling enough batteries to justify their own production plant.

 

[UnknownVT]

Wikipedia is not famed for it's accuracy.

Can't argue with that -
except Wikipedia is open to input from almost anyone, like this forum, only much, much wider - so yes, there are bound to be some mistakes/misinformation - but just like this forum, those are usually picked up and corrected pretty quickly.
EDIT to ADD -
----------------
I did a bit of looking on the Wikipedia entry edit history page and found that the edit for Uniross was added -
(cur) (prev) 14:14, 14 June 2008 220.253.147.187 (Talk) (6,880 bytes) (→Brand names)
so it's been there since June/14/2008.
-----------------

Uniross Corporate homepage - claims to manufacture rechargeable batteries, but that may not mean they have their own manufacturing plant.

" Uniross has been the rechargeable specialist since 1968. We design, manufacture and distribute dedicated rechargeable batteries and battery chargers for digital cameras, digital video, mp3 players, electronic toys and a host of other devices. Today, Uniross is one of the world leaders and currently holds the n°1 position in Europe, India and South Africa and n°2 in China and the overall Far Eastern market. With a worldwide presence in more than 70 countries, Uniross is the rechargeable power specialists. "

on the Uniross Corporate Editorial page

" For the last 35 years, Uniross has been working in a sector that has important consequences for the future of our planet. We design and distribute rechargeable batteries and chargers, which are a viable economic and ecological alternative to the throw away batteries. We are entirely committed to the protection of the environment and have set up associations to collect and re-cycle used batteries. We are also cofounders of RECHARGE, the European association for the promotion and management of rechargeable batteries throughout their lifespan. "

So perhaps they are a little more than just a marketing re-badger of rechargeable batteries?

Also the pdf Download of a UK Daily Telegraph article (from Oct/2005) says Uniross was the leading market leader for rechargeable batteries on the UK over Duracell and Energizer.

 

[Mr Happy]

Uniross is a little complicated. Originally a European company, it may well be that they manufacture and sell their own branded products in Europe. In the US, Uniross acquired NABC (UltraLast brand), and Uniross/Ultralast in North America appear to sell different products from different sources compared to Europe. For instance several people have observed that the Hybrio sold in the UK market is different from the Hybrio sold in the US market. Only the US Hybrio appears to be similar to Eneloop.

There have been reports here on CPF that in Australia the story is different again, and that there be other products sold under the Uniross brand in the Australian market.

 

[UnknownVT]

In the US, Uniross acquired NABC (UltraLast brand), and Uniross/Ultralast in North America appear to sell different products from different sources compared to Europe. For instance several people have observed that the Hybrio sold in the UK market is different from the Hybrio sold in the US market. Only the US Hybrio appears to be similar to Eneloop.

Thank you for that input -
Wikipedia entry on Uniross says:
" Uniross is a Paris based international company, that started in 1968 in the United Kingdom. It makes and sells rechargeable batteries and battery rechargers under the names Encore, UltraLast and Uniross.
In 2006, Uniross purchased NABC, North American Battery Company, which has offices in San Diego, CA and a factory in Tijuana, Mexico. "

However the reports of Uniross Hybrios doing well in the very battery fussy Pentax K100D over on PentaxForums.com (link to search "Hybrio") appear to be from the UK (and USA) (there was one negative report from the UK too).

Since anecdotally I have found that only eneloops seem to claim and actually maintain higher operating voltage under-load (over any other LSD or NiMH) (eneloop.info Voltage page) could those UK Uniross Hybrios possibly be eneloop "clones" too?

 

[KowShak]

Also the pdf Download of a UK Daily Telegraph article (from Oct/2005) says Uniross was the leading market leader for rechargeable batteries on the UK over Duracell and Energizer.

I've been looking for rechargeable AAs recently, the only ones I can find in quantity are energizer. Many places stock energizer and they're expensive (£15 for 4 of their highest capacity AAs), the few places I've been able to find Hybrios have been selling the last of their stock off cheaply (£2 for 4AAs or £5 for 4AA with a dumb charger). Cheap Hybrios good for me in the short term, but in the long term if people are stopping selling them, where am I going to get decent batteries in the future?

Since anecdotally I have found that only eneloops seem to claim and actually maintain higher operating voltage under-load (over any other LSD or NiMH) (eneloop.info Voltage page) could those UK Uniross Hybrios possibly be eneloop "clones" too?

The Hybrios I've bought in ther UK look just like Eneloops, if they had the same wrappers on I'd not be able to tell them apart.

 

[UnknownVT]

Cheap Hybrios good for me in the short term, but in the long term if people are stopping selling them, where am I going to get decent batteries in the future?

Unfortunately that's the way of the world.

Hopefully LSD batteries are here to stay, and in the mainstream -
so LSD will now be reasonably readily available - as for Uniross they seem pretty well established globally.

The Hybrios I've bought in ther UK look just like Eneloops, if they had the same wrappers on I'd not be able to tell them apart.

Cool! thanks for that input -
so UK Uniross Hybrios do look like eneloops :thumbsup:.

Did you test them to see if they were electrically similar to eneloops as well, please?

Thanks

 

[UnknownVT]

and I just found another by him that may help us with a hint on the Duracell Pre-Charged made in China black tops -
...
see those 4 vent holes in the black top surround? they look similar to Kodak Pre-Charged and GP ReCyko

I posted a comment about this over at Amazon and got a reply -
" NLee the Engineer says:
The made-in-China "Duracell Pre Charged" AA cell is definitely NOT the same as Kodak Pre-Charged AA cell. You can tell that from the bottom scan of those cells (I just upload a new customer image). Those so-called 'vent holes' you see in the top scan are just cut-outs from the black spacer. Furthermore, the Kodak AA cell is a bit fatter than Rayovac and Duracell AA cell. "

and that new photo by NLee the Engineer:

 

[crofty]

The Hybrios I've bought in ther UK look just like Eneloops, if they had the same wrappers on I'd not be able to tell them apart./QUOTE]

Cool! thanks for that input -
so UK Uniross Hybrios do look like eneloops

Out of the 12 hybrio`s I`ve bought in the UK, 8 of them look like eneloops.

I`ll try to get a picture of the odd one`s out when I get my camera back next week.

 

[KowShak]

Out of the 12 hybrio`s I`ve bought in the UK, 8 of them look like eneloops.

I`ll try to get a picture of the odd one`s out when I get my camera back next week.

Hybrios seem to come in (at least) three different styles of packaging, green, red and orange. Which style of Hybrios did you buy, and which are Eneloops and which aren't?


The ones I bought came in "green" packaging, they are marked prominently as "Hybrio".

Then there are the "red" variety, which on paper have similar specifications.

And finally the "orange" variety which have a lower capacity (1600mah uf memory serves).

 

[was.lost.but.now.found]

I've seen here at CPF that it has been confirmed the Duracell Pre-charged are re-badged eneloops, however I believe I read a recent review somewhere on the web where someone mentioned that while this was the case, the newer versions found in stores have a different appearance (not that of eneloops) and say made in China. Does any have current info on this?

 

[Bones]

I've seen here at CPF that it has been confirmed the Duracell Pre-charged are re-badged eneloops, however I believe I read a recent review somewhere on the web where someone mentioned that while this was the case, the newer versions found in stores have a different appearance (not that of eneloops) and say made in China. Does any have current info on this?

You can find additional details here was.lost.but.now.found:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post2373443
-

 

[was.lost.but.now.found]

You can find additional details here was.lost.but.now.found:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post2373443
-

Thank you Bones!!

 

[Bones]

Images by Wildchild of the RayOvac Hybrid, the Eneloop and the Duraloop:

 

[Mr Happy]

Hybrios seem to come in (at least) three different styles of packaging, green, red and orange. Which style of Hybrios did you buy, and which are Eneloops and which aren't?

Only the ones that say "Hybrio" on the package are Hybrios. The ones that do not say "Hybrio" on the package (like the second two shown) are not Hybrios, they are just plain rechargeable NiMH batteries.

 

[UnknownVT]

Only the ones that say "Hybrio" on the package are Hybrios. The ones that do not say "Hybrio" on the package (like the second two shown) are not Hybrios, they are just plain rechargeable NiMH batteries.

Not too sure about that - I did an image google on "Hybrio" and both those packaging came up - going to the source, the vendors do list them as Hybrios - of course there is the possibility that those were mistakes - but both the packaging do have this logo -

EDIT to ADD -
Doing minimally more looking I found a vendor's listings of both the latter packaging variations -

orange variety are listed as 4 x AA Hybrio Batteries (standard life)
Specifications:
Manufacturer: Uniross
Packaging: recycled
% of capacity left after 6 months: 80%
% of capacity left after 12 months: 70%
No of recharges: 1000
Technology: NiMH HYBRIO
Capacity: 1600mAh
Voltage: 1.2V
Size: AA

"red" variety = 4 x AA Hybrio Batteries (long-life)
Specifications:
Manufacturer: Uniross
Packaging: recycled
% of capacity left after 6 months: 80%
% of capacity left after 12 months: 70%
No of recharges: 1000
Technology: NiMH HYBRIO
Capacity: 2100mAh
Voltage: 1.2V
Size: AA

Perhaps our UK members can please help confirm or refute these variations?

 

[Mr Happy]

Only the ones that say "Hybrio" on the package are Hybrios. The ones that do not say "Hybrio" on the package (like the second two shown) are not Hybrios, they are just plain rechargeable NiMH batteries.

Not too sure about that - I did an image google on "Hybrio" and both those packaging came up - going to the source, the vendors do list them as Hybrios - of course there is the possibility that those were mistakes - but both the packaging do have this logo -

Oops, I was mistaken, sorry.

I didn't notice the little Hybrio logos in the green circle.

However, I note with interest that the latter two that "use Hybrio technology" match in capacity with the varieties of Varta Ready2use AA cells, also 2100 mAh and 1600 mAh: http://www.en.varta-consumer.com/1522_1192697702.html

Coupled with the "using similar technology" words, it suggests that these cells might be the same thing in different packaging.

Only the ones in the green packaging with the prominent word "HYBRIO" on the side are the ones that I recognize as being like Eneloops.