Well said, Stumpy. Well said. +1
Niteye Zip 20?
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Well said, Stumpy. Well said. +1
csshih
Flashlight Enthusiast
My thoughts:
I sell Niteye lights and have a decent amount of inventory in stock.
When Niteye first popped up they had their zip20 listed in their pricesheets, but it was removed shortly. I was very happy about that.
Last month or so, it was put back into their pricesheet. Previously, they mentioned that they had a new "lighter style" flashlight. I didn't pay much attention to it as they had a cool new ti/cf flashlight in the works. I was quite happy about the design, but then the zip20 came up once again. I told them that it would anger enthusiasts.
Niteye appears to have some nice new designs, but this zip20 situation doesn't have me feeling good about them as a company.
Craig
I sell Niteye lights and have a decent amount of inventory in stock.
When Niteye first popped up they had their zip20 listed in their pricesheets, but it was removed shortly. I was very happy about that.
Last month or so, it was put back into their pricesheet. Previously, they mentioned that they had a new "lighter style" flashlight. I didn't pay much attention to it as they had a cool new ti/cf flashlight in the works. I was quite happy about the design, but then the zip20 came up once again. I told them that it would anger enthusiasts.
Niteye appears to have some nice new designs, but this zip20 situation doesn't have me feeling good about them as a company.
Craig
madecov
Flashlight Enthusiast
I am in the same boat. It is a very nice product, it sold fair but not well.
I think they may now be dead in the water on this forum.
Niteye still has the opportunity to make things right, if they can work something out with Data or just abandon the Zip20 project i'm willing to consider these unfortunate events as part of the growing/learning process.
They still can admit the fault, repair the damage, clarify the Sysmax situation and start regaining our trust, it could be in every one's best interest.
They still can admit the fault, repair the damage, clarify the Sysmax situation and start regaining our trust, it could be in every one's best interest.
Phil Ament
Enlightened
Well as I started to write this Viola-niteye was currently online and reading this particular thread, however once again she/they have now gone offline without posting any response/explanation!
jake25
Enlightened
I don't post often in CPF much more but I couldn't agree anymore. Make it right, put it in the past. Take down the product, stop selling it, apologize etc.
Hey guys,was the product announced officially by NITEYE? I didn't see it at least not on their official website,and I also didn't find the product in the market.NO SUPPLY AT ALL! I guess there are a lot of things need to be settled down before selling it,and I believe they are still working on it. "Innocent until proven guilty",that's also what I want to say.
Can't really see this happening. CPF may be powerful among our relatively small flashlight lover's group, but the much broader worldwide market, with the allure of big profits, will likely win out, and they'll just ignore us. Would love to be proven wrong.
Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
US dealers might be worrying about patent violations coming back on them, if they continue marketing the Zip20. We'll see how that pans out.
Bill
Bill
madecov
Flashlight Enthusiast
Can't really see this happening. CPF may be powerful among our relatively small flashlight lover's group, but the much broader worldwide market, with the allure of big profits, will likely win out, and they'll just ignore us. Would love to be proven wrong.
I would imagine that they have several hundred if not thousand units already produced. They will be sold before they either discontinue the model.
fyrstormer
Banned
I see this scandal has been kept burning brightly while I was off camping for the weekend.
The ZIP20 is an obvious, blatant copy of Cool Fall's design and I can understand why so many people are upset about it. However, I'm reminded of the McGizmo Lunasol, the first expensive titanium light I ever bought; anyone who has used one can tell you it functions the same way as the Surefire Aviator, even though the parts aren't interchangeable. In fact, the Piston Drive design used by the Lunasol lights was at least partly developed to avoid the possibility of infringing on Surefire patents that the earlier Aleph design was suspected of infringing upon. I don't recall anyone pitching a fit about that, though. Is it because the "knockoff" was more expensive than the original, and therefore it couldn't be called a cheap copy? Is it because the company that originally developed the Aviator design is a big faceless corporation, whereas the company that developed the SPY design is a guy in a garage? Is it because the Lunasol was made by an American company instead of a Chinese company? I have no idea, honestly, but these are the significant differences between the two scenarios that I'm aware of, and I wonder which reasons are responsible for the difference in response.
What I see from Niteye/Jetbeam's representatives here is a mad scramble to come up with an explanation of their organizational structure that makes sense. In all likelihood, they have never needed to answer the questions people are now asking, until now. An engineer designed the parts, a factory made the parts, a workshop assembled the parts, an advertising company printed the user manuals and posted pictures on the web, and that was it. The work got done and nobody worried too much about how. Give them time to figure out how to answer your questions, or if you're really impatient, hurry up and learn Chinese so you can get the facts directly.
Niteye should compensate Cool Fall for use of the SPY design. Cool Fall may refuse to accept a compensation deal, but the fact remains that the ZIP20 already exists and it's going to be sold eventually, somewhere in the world, so Cool Fall might as well make some money from it. In the meantime, if anyone wants a ZIP20 and feels guilty about it, they can always send Cool Fall a tip via Paypal to salve their conscience.
I worry that this is going to somehow ruin Shenzhen Jetbeam as a company. They have made some great products in the past and they don't deserve to disappear because of one dumb mistake. Even with the ripped-off SPY design, they added a grippier control knob and an infinitely-variable control, which frankly appeals to me more than the original design, so it's not like they lack talent of their own. I hope the products of their talent will continue to be available in the future.
The ZIP20 is an obvious, blatant copy of Cool Fall's design and I can understand why so many people are upset about it. However, I'm reminded of the McGizmo Lunasol, the first expensive titanium light I ever bought; anyone who has used one can tell you it functions the same way as the Surefire Aviator, even though the parts aren't interchangeable. In fact, the Piston Drive design used by the Lunasol lights was at least partly developed to avoid the possibility of infringing on Surefire patents that the earlier Aleph design was suspected of infringing upon. I don't recall anyone pitching a fit about that, though. Is it because the "knockoff" was more expensive than the original, and therefore it couldn't be called a cheap copy? Is it because the company that originally developed the Aviator design is a big faceless corporation, whereas the company that developed the SPY design is a guy in a garage? Is it because the Lunasol was made by an American company instead of a Chinese company? I have no idea, honestly, but these are the significant differences between the two scenarios that I'm aware of, and I wonder which reasons are responsible for the difference in response.
What I see from Niteye/Jetbeam's representatives here is a mad scramble to come up with an explanation of their organizational structure that makes sense. In all likelihood, they have never needed to answer the questions people are now asking, until now. An engineer designed the parts, a factory made the parts, a workshop assembled the parts, an advertising company printed the user manuals and posted pictures on the web, and that was it. The work got done and nobody worried too much about how. Give them time to figure out how to answer your questions, or if you're really impatient, hurry up and learn Chinese so you can get the facts directly.
Niteye should compensate Cool Fall for use of the SPY design. Cool Fall may refuse to accept a compensation deal, but the fact remains that the ZIP20 already exists and it's going to be sold eventually, somewhere in the world, so Cool Fall might as well make some money from it. In the meantime, if anyone wants a ZIP20 and feels guilty about it, they can always send Cool Fall a tip via Paypal to salve their conscience.
I worry that this is going to somehow ruin Shenzhen Jetbeam as a company. They have made some great products in the past and they don't deserve to disappear because of one dumb mistake. Even with the ripped-off SPY design, they added a grippier control knob and an infinitely-variable control, which frankly appeals to me more than the original design, so it's not like they lack talent of their own. I hope the products of their talent will continue to be available in the future.
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Phil Ament
Enlightened
Hey there Viola-niteye. I've noticed that you are currently online and reading this thread, so how about answering some of the questions that have been asked!
Phil Ament
Enlightened
Hmmmm! Offline again now and once more, nothing but deafening silence!
csshih
Flashlight Enthusiast
they don't.
they're now talking with Data. I'm sure we'll get a response in a few days.
Craig
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data will continue to make great new lights and make more, so let that company do whatever it's not as if they will end up going far anyways without any of their own innovations. If copying is the game then they will end up lagging behind everyone's sale.
If data and niteye are talking maybe this will be beneficial in giving the world 100 dollar 007's
If data and niteye are talking maybe this will be beneficial in giving the world 100 dollar 007's
I completely agree with fyrstormer and r-ice. This issue needs to be taken with patience and dignity rather than getting angry and going for a pitchfork. So far it already resulted in a rather embarrassing conflict between JetBeam and Sysmax; ideally we need to get the best out of the situation, and affordable Spies with dimmer-like switches could be such outcome, for one. (Even though I personally consider the Zippo lighter shape and having the twisty on the same end as the emitter less ergonomic than it being a novelty thing.)
In any case I doubt Data's creativity would be exhausted on a five year old idea the 007 is. In a world of business competition you've gotta come up with new things all the time to keep yourself afloat, and it's about time to do that regardless of the outcome of the negotiations.
In any case I doubt Data's creativity would be exhausted on a five year old idea the 007 is. In a world of business competition you've gotta come up with new things all the time to keep yourself afloat, and it's about time to do that regardless of the outcome of the negotiations.
127.0.0.1
Flashlight Enthusiast
does the coolfall spy have WIPO paperwork ?
Phil Ament
Enlightened
They're waiting to get everything worked out before they make a public announcement. Hang in there
Well that's really great to hear. I wonder if it will end up being becoming a Nitespy or a Nitespeye!
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