TorchLAB V4 Triple LED drop ins - Full Boost, Thermal, and Voltage Regulation

[riccardo]

Hello,
I think I might have a problem on my triple H3 LMH 219.
I'm making some run-time tests and I can't get even close to the "runtime estimator" numbers.

If I use 2x18500 IMR (brand new EFEST V2 1100 mAh) I can't get more than 20/23 minutes on high (with one drop to low) before the triple will constantly drop to low within 10 seconds from the restart. With 2x18350 IMR (brand new EFEST V2 800 mAh) I can't get more than 12 minutes.

Now I just finished another test with a single un-protected Panasonic 18650 2900 mAh (wrapped in grey, marked NCR18650 Li-ion MH12210) and I got a total runtime of 32 minutes (now if I reset to high it drop within 30 seconds). I removed the cell and it tested 3.73 unloaded and 3.71 if closed on a 10 Ohm resistor.

To avoid problems with the thermal protection all test were made with the flashlight (a bored 6P) sinked in a caraff full of cold water, water temperature never got over 25 C, the flashlight body always felt cold to the touch. The fit of the drop-in is really precise and I also applied some thermal silicone paste.

Is it normal or I have a defective triple?

 

[riccardo]

Just a brief add to what I just wrote.
I managed to remotely wire a battery so that I can monitor the tension while feeding the LED engine and I found that my triple seems to switch from high to low at about 3.4V instead of the 3.0 declared.

Than I tried with a professional laboratory power supply, I started at 3.8V (absorbing around 2.4A) than I started reducing tension.. at 3.5V it dropped to low. I disconnected the light and regulated the power supply to 3.6V, I reconnected the light and set it to high level than it dropped to low when I hit the 3.4V.

I guess I have a problem on my triple, the runtime I can get from it is too short because the cut-off is too much anticipated.
Can you solve the problem under warranty? I bought the triple from your website last January (Order No: 130124-232637-2500).

 

[Moddoo]

Just a brief add to what I just wrote.
I managed to remotely wire a battery so that I can monitor the tension while feeding the LED engine and I found that my triple seems to switch from high to low at about 3.4V instead of the 3.0 declared.

Than I tried with a professional laboratory power supply, I started at 3.8V (absorbing around 2.4A) than I started reducing tension.. at 3.5V it dropped to low. I disconnected the light and regulated the power supply to 3.6V, I reconnected the light and set it to high level than it dropped to low when I hit the 3.4V.

I guess I have a problem on my triple, the runtime I can get from it is too short because the cut-off is too much anticipated.
Can you solve the problem under warranty? I bought the triple from your website last January (Order No: 130124-232637-2500).

Hello Riccardo,

You are experiencing the Battery Stretch Function. (more below)

The EFEST V2 1100 mAh cells that you are using are only testing at about 684mAh at 3A and 1039mAh at 2A. http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=125
This calculates to a useable capacity of approximately 735mAh with the current draw of the Triple.

The AW 2900 cell tests around 2600mAh at 2-3A. this should result in over 60 minutes of runtime.
I suspect that maybe your cell is not fresh and the capacity may be less than new.

Please let us know if you have any other questions.

 

[riccardo]

About the cutoff, in your website, in the version history of the triple is written: "4.00 - add low voltage reduction (10% at 3.0v per cell)"
Now, I have seen that my triple on single cell is switching to low when the voltage get around 3.4V.

I tested it also with a laboratory DC power supply, the reduction is happening around 3.4-3.5V and not at 3.0 as stated.
The cutoff at 2.2 indeed is correct.

Is this correct or my triple is out of specifications?

 

[Moddoo]

About the cutoff, in your website, in the version history of the triple is written: "4.00 - add low voltage reduction (10% at 3.0v per cell)"
Now, I have seen that my triple on single cell is switching to low when the voltage get around 3.4V.

I tested it also with a laboratory DC power supply, the reduction is happening around 3.4-3.5V and not at 3.0 as stated.
The cutoff at 2.2 indeed is correct.

Is this correct or my triple is out of specifications?

Your Triple is functioning as it is intended to.
The specifications did contain errors and they have been corrected.
We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your business.

Battery Stretch Function:
The output is reduced to 10% when there is 10% of the battery life remaining.
This will allow you to keep your light running for some time before you are left in the dark.
At this point, you can switch the light off, and choose medium, or low mode if you like. The voltage sag of the batteries will be much less in these modes.

 

[ElectronGuru]

Hi Riccardo,

Sorry for the mix up. Our web site was listing hardware limits (2.2/3.0), not the software settings (3.0/3.4) standard to every v4 Triple. Please note, this does not affect the runtime estimator, which is based on the same Triple configuration you have (running AW IMR cells). As noted above, that appears to be a difference in batteries. Thank you for bringing this to our attention, it has been corrected. As always, your satisfaction is paramount to us. Please contact us if you would like to send it back.

Dan

 

[scout24]

:bow: This, folks, is awesome customer service. To everyone at Oveready: this, and the outstanding products, is what keeps me coming back. Keep up the great work!!! :thumbsup:

 

[riccardo]

OK, first of all I'd like to say that I'm not going to return the triple since you convinced me that the performance are as expected.

BUT.. I've been thinking about for a while and I spent some time investigating the battery graphs available on that German website you linked. I got the idea that the setting of 3,4 V is quite a lot conservative (it's often far from the 10% of residual charge) and it is shortening too much the full-power runtime in favor of a very long "safety" low-level runtime.

Basically I compared AW IMR and EFEST IMR (button top V2) in both size 18350 and 18500, I considered the time at which the graph is touching the 3.4V and 3.0V lines at 2A and at 3A, I averaged the two values and I got the expected time at which the cells will reach those voltages with your triple at full power. Hereafter my results:

18350:
AW - 3.4V@13' - 3.0V@19'
EF - [email protected]' - [email protected]' (in my case I measured 12' to 3.4V but I had to restart to high once before the 12' mark so 10.5' in one constant discharge is realistic)

18500:
AW - 3.4V@25' - 3.0V@30'
EF - [email protected]' - 3.0V@27' (in my case I measured 20-23' to 3.4, again not bad)

According to this estimate the step-down happen well before reaching the 10% of residual runtime. In fact the 18350 are switching down at 68-63% (AW-EF) and the 18500 at 83% (both AW and EF). It's clear how different accumulators have different discharge curves abut still I believe that the 3.4V mark is a bit too conservative.

I than made the same calculations for the Panasonic 18650 2900 mAh that I tested in single-cell config and I'd expect 40 minute of runtime to 3.4V and 64 to 3.0V.. again the 3.4V mark arrive at 62% of total runtime. Testing my Panasonic I got just 32 minute of full power runtime but as stated before I was on single cell, when I'll get another extension I'll try with double 18650 configuration.

Clearly all this calculations are pretty much approximate but they are very close to my experimentally measured results, It's not bad for a guess based on an independent battery test!!
On the basis of these results I believe that the sweet spot for the power reduction should be around 3.3V/3.25V per cell, clearly it's just an opinion but it can be an interesting starting point for some more factory testing.

 

[rangerxtrn]

:bow: This, folks, is awesome customer service. To everyone at Oveready: this, and the outstanding products, is what keeps me coming back. Keep up the great work!!! :thumbsup:

I second that! The Oveready Team is awesome to do business with and they put out awesome products! I just completed boring out and polishing the inside of my 6P and dropping in a Cool H3 V4 running on a pair IMR 18350's, and I must say this combo is OUTSTANDING!:thumbsup:

 

[Troop#26]

Hey Oveready,

I sent you guys an email a while back and havent received a reply. Just wondering if there are any plans to bring single mode versions of these out. I dont need or want 3 mode in my work light. OR is there a way to convert the 3 modes to just single modes?

Thanks,

Stephen

 

[Cerealand]

Hey Oveready,

I sent you guys an email a while back and havent received a reply. Just wondering if there are any plans to bring single mode versions of these out. I dont need or want 3 mode in my work light. OR is there a way to convert the 3 modes to just single modes?

Thanks,

Stephen

Good Morning Stephen:

Oveready does offer the single mode versions the V4 drop-ins. Please see the link below.


http://www.oveready.com/a-engines/torchlab-h1-triple-single-level-drop-in-1600l-/prod_280.html

 

[ElectronGuru]

Hey Oveready,

I sent you guys an email a while back and havent received a reply. Just wondering if there are any plans to bring single mode versions of these out. I dont need or want 3 mode in my work light. OR is there a way to convert the 3 modes to just single modes?

Sorry for missing your email. I believe I have found it and replied (please confirm either way).

V3/V4 boards not programmable, once they are configured at the factory, they will remain that way.

That said, as noted above (thanks Cerealand), we do still make single level drop ins. A few notes:


V4 15 watt (H1) models, have more output/less runtime than the 10 watt (L1) V3 model you may have.

We are making more H1 triple drop ins and H1 triple Modoolar heads, with the former, ready this month.

 

[mcbrat]

...
Here are a full complement of beamshots. The H3 Nichia is in the bottom left corner.

that right there is an awesome view of the tint differences... looks like I need to look for another one

 

[Troop#26]

Just to let everyone know, they did get back to me. Email must have gotten missed in the abyss. They are currently helping me to get what I need for my tools.

The excellent customer service I had known and expected from Oveready has been restored! Great company!

S

 

[ElectronGuru]

Dan, are you guys considering a V4 H3N XP-G2 in 4000K? I really like the tint of the ones in the Malkoff M61N series.

Ready to ship in HML, LMH, and ODL. This is a small one time run, drop ins first, then Moddoolar heads, then more drop ins.

 

[timsmile]

Hi Oveready,

I sent my light module to your Warranty department 2 weeks ago and I sent a few emails but haven't heard anything so far. I'm suer it's just some miscommunication issue. Just wondering if you have received my module and how is it? Thanks!

 

[timsmile]

Hi, please just let me know how's it going. I'm a bit worried as it has been 3 weeks since I shipped my module and I've heard nothing from you guys. Thx!

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond]

I got one of the XP-G2 4000K H3n HML drop-ins about a week or so back and I can only say that they are spectacular. They are super bright and the tint is exceptional for neutral lovers out there.

 

[Moddoo]

Hi, please just let me know how's it going. I'm a bit worried as it has been 3 weeks since I shipped my module and I've heard nothing from you guys. Thx!

Your email was replied to earlier today.
We will fix you up asap.

 

[Shooter21]

I have an odd issue when i go riding my Xootr with my V4 triple it tends to switch modes from vibration. The host I'm using is a 2x18650 with a McClicky switch.