500 Lumen - AAA Flashlight (photos) - Work In Progress - Part 2

[the_guy_with_no_name]

I wanted to do a cool picture series documenting the snowfall today . . .

So here is the first shot taken probably 20 minutes into the snowstorm:

NEXT:

One hour after that the Torpedo was not to be seen

It is coming down fast and furious!!!!!

I guess I will have to settle for some snow shots of the Torpedo case head first in the snow to document how much snow fell . . . . It may cover the entire case

I've been shoveling the driveway every hour just to keep from having to lift a ton of snow at a time!

Awesome :twothumbs

Thanks so much smarkum.

Looks like a quite a snowfall!

Tgwnn

 

[smarkum]

^^ It keeps falling . . .

 

[Cataract]

^^ It keeps falling . . .

Snow submarine fight!!! (well... it's much better than snow sharks!)

 

[nbp]

Hi nbp,

Thanks very much, that is very helpful. Seems like something up with the circuit, if only I knew what exactly. Sorry about the very short life. I'd send you out a replacement now if I had any available but have to ask you to kindly wait until I get some the new PCBs/Heads along with the window 5 batch.

No problem Guy, I signed up to be a tester, and this is all part of it. I feel bad having you send out a new head since you indicated these are not cheap to produce. :sigh: If it is a hardship, I can wait till the production heads are done, of course. But if you do have an extra when the next set comes in, I would be happy to continue testing the Torpedo and offering any further feedback and suggestions I can.

Best regards,

 

[darkangel55555]

Here's my first and foremost impressions about the just-arrived, in its X iteration the pre-production MBI Torpedo. On opening the box I was first struck by how much stuff is in that black cardboard tube, starting with the "detach before launch" keychain similar to the oft-seen "remove before flight" tags available on some airlines as souvenirs.

Upon opening the cardboard and removing the bubble wrap that protects the Torpedo itself, one observes a very well thought out and very stylish enclosure that stores the torpedo head, the smaller body, and larger body. There are also two cells in the head of the enclosure, which I did not realize until I read the instructions. This, from someone who typically has no such need. Guy certainly has a penchant for concealing things in other things.

As a testament to the quality of hard anodizing on the lights, I immediately upon removing it from the packaging scraped the small battery tube against the large battery tube. This resulted in no marring of the finish.

I have to say that the way the parts of the Torpedo are stored in the enclosure, shaped like an actual torpedo is ingenious. The tail of the torpedo has a receptacle for a cylinder of plastic that stores the light in its component parts, separated by high density foam. The way that the plastic in it attaches, or rather docks with the aluminum external shell prevents lateral movement during transit. Another thing is that when one removes the head from the enclosure, and subsequently the light from within it, one has an experience comparable to removing fissile material from some manner of device.

Complying with Guy's instructions, I initially tested the light with a primary alkaline cell. The interface is slightly gritty, but it remains to be seen whether the anodizing will improve in rotating quality, or if I need to add lubricant. In any case, the simplicity of the interface is a credit to the light and designer.

 

[Z-Tab]

My X #096 arrived a few days ago and I have been using it pretty steadily since then. I am running it primarily on an Energizer Lithium AAA.

First, I love the size and weight. It is exactly what I think of when I think ultraportable AAA light. The weight is perfect and opens the light up to a lot of uses that even slightly heavier lights have trouble with. I can imagine clipping it to a baseball cap, I have held it in my mouth, and I bet it would stay put well enough if I tucked it behind my ear. I would gladly put one of these on my keychain and... maybe more importantly... I think this is just about a perfect light to give to non-flashaholics.

The packaging is outstanding. The tube and warnings all make for a joyful presentation. This is a tool, but the best tools are a pleasure to use, and the packaging contributes to the idea that this is a fun light.

Quality of light is excellent. I received one of the 4000k versions and I am fully pleased with the tint, beam profile, and output. It is plenty bright on AAA, with the performance on LiIons being far more than needed (again, part of the fun, I think). I like that it is floody, which I think is generally more useful in an EDC. It easily lights up a whole room, even in the lower settings, and is great outdoors, too.

This is an amazing AAA light, but I have a few things that I'm not fully in love with.

The smaller body is great, but unscrewing it for emergency AAA use is a bit awkward right now. Having the body turn where it does, it is prone to unscrew when you are trying to take the whole battery tube off, so you can wind up turning that a few times before having to just rescrew it and start over. There is no stop, which makes it a bit tough to know when it is at AAA length. A stop might be too costly to implement mechanically, but would be very helpful. The threading is also quite long and requires an enormous amount of turns to get to full length. I also had the problem where the spring moves around while adjusting the length of the body, so that part seems like it needs to be adjusted in some way.

The UI is unpredictable. Sometimes it goes up no matter which direction you turn, sometimes it won't change levels at all for a few turns, it is impossible to know whether the light is going to get brighter or dimmer from moment to moment. This is a big problem if I want to just turn the light onto the lowest setting, then I can't get it to shut off without cycling all the way up to full power and turning it back and forth until it decides that it will get dimmer. Occasionally, it works perfectly and predictably. I'm curious to see whether putting an extra magnet on the side will help, as another poster suggested; if that solves the problem, it would be terrific.

As far as I can tell, the little dots on the control ring are meaningless. They do not indicate whether anything will happen. Turning the control ring sometimes doesn't give you light for a while, with spacing between the modes being unpredictable as well. Again, this might be a magnet issue.

I think the idea of the UI is cool. But if I turn the light on by turning the control ring in one direction, then turning the control ring in the other direction should ALWAYS reduce the level or shut the light off. If that is too difficult or expensive to implement, then I would much rather have a more limited UI. It would also be nice if there was a detent for OFF, which would be good for pocket carry, since I would know that the light was off and could check it without taking the light out of my pocket.

As of now, the unpredictability of the UI is the only thing keeping this from being the best keychain light on the market.

 

[nbp]

Excellent writeup ZTab! You hit upon several points I neglected in my own feedback but agree with completely in regards to the 10250 tube and UI. Very well explained!

 

[the_guy_with_no_name]

^^ It keeps falling . . .

Wow, thats plenty o'snow
Thanks for the ultra-cool (as in frozen) pics

No problem Guy, I signed up to be a tester, and this is all part of it. I feel bad having you send out a new head since you indicated these are not cheap to produce. :sigh: If it is a hardship, I can wait till the production heads are done, of course. But if you do have an extra when the next set comes in, I would be happy to continue testing the Torpedo and offering any further feedback and suggestions I can.

Best regards,

Hi npb,

Thanks so much for your commitment and flexibility.
Approaching 3yrs on the task, I'm equally committed and will be happy to send one out when the next batch come in and fingers crossed I'll have enough spares.

Here's my first and foremost impressions about the just-arrived, in its X iteration the pre-production MBI Torpedo. On opening the box I was first struck by how much stuff is in that black cardboard tube, starting with the "detach before launch" keychain similar to the oft-seen "remove before flight" tags available on some airlines as souvenirs.

Upon opening the cardboard and removing the bubble wrap that protects the Torpedo itself, one observes a very well thought out and very stylish enclosure that stores the torpedo head, the smaller body, and larger body. There are also two cells in the head of the enclosure, which I did not realize until I read the instructions. This, from someone who typically has no such need. Guy certainly has a penchant for concealing things in other things.

As a testament to the quality of hard anodizing on the lights, I immediately upon removing it from the packaging scraped the small battery tube against the large battery tube. This resulted in no marring of the finish.

I have to say that the way the parts of the Torpedo are stored in the enclosure, shaped like an actual torpedo is ingenious. The tail of the torpedo has a receptacle for a cylinder of plastic that stores the light in its component parts, separated by high density foam. The way that the plastic in it attaches, or rather docks with the aluminum external shell prevents lateral movement during transit. Another thing is that when one removes the head from the enclosure, and subsequently the light from within it, one has an experience comparable to removing fissile material from some manner of device.

Complying with Guy's instructions, I initially tested the light with a primary alkaline cell. The interface is slightly gritty, but it remains to be seen whether the anodizing will improve in rotating quality, or if I need to add lubricant. In any case, the simplicity of the interface is a credit to the light and designer.

Thanks so much for the feedback darkangel55555 :thumbsup:

Thanks for being brave and testing the ano finish

I think the case design must have some remnants of the twenty-four craze and I was envisioning "Jack" carefully opening the case to diffuse the Torp

To even more completely spill the beans.....
I had hoped to embed a charger in either the head or tail of the case as I like things to be functional, but figured I'd best get the flashlight running smoothly before I become homeless from all the R&D costs

My X #096 arrived a few days ago and I have been using it pretty steadily since then. I am running it primarily on an Energizer Lithium AAA.

First, I love the size and weight. It is exactly what I think of when I think ultraportable AAA light. The weight is perfect and opens the light up to a lot of uses that even slightly heavier lights have trouble with. I can imagine clipping it to a baseball cap, I have held it in my mouth, and I bet it would stay put well enough if I tucked it behind my ear. I would gladly put one of these on my keychain and... maybe more importantly... I think this is just about a perfect light to give to non-flashaholics.

The packaging is outstanding. The tube and warnings all make for a joyful presentation. This is a tool, but the best tools are a pleasure to use, and the packaging contributes to the idea that this is a fun light.

Quality of light is excellent. I received one of the 4000k versions and I am fully pleased with the tint, beam profile, and output. It is plenty bright on AAA, with the performance on LiIons being far more than needed (again, part of the fun, I think). I like that it is floody, which I think is generally more useful in an EDC. It easily lights up a whole room, even in the lower settings, and is great outdoors, too.

This is an amazing AAA light, but I have a few things that I'm not fully in love with.

The smaller body is great, but unscrewing it for emergency AAA use is a bit awkward right now. Having the body turn where it does, it is prone to unscrew when you are trying to take the whole battery tube off, so you can wind up turning that a few times before having to just rescrew it and start over. There is no stop, which makes it a bit tough to know when it is at AAA length. A stop might be too costly to implement mechanically, but would be very helpful. The threading is also quite long and requires an enormous amount of turns to get to full length. I also had the problem where the spring moves around while adjusting the length of the body, so that part seems like it needs to be adjusted in some way.

The UI is unpredictable. Sometimes it goes up no matter which direction you turn, sometimes it won't change levels at all for a few turns, it is impossible to know whether the light is going to get brighter or dimmer from moment to moment. This is a big problem if I want to just turn the light onto the lowest setting, then I can't get it to shut off without cycling all the way up to full power and turning it back and forth until it decides that it will get dimmer. Occasionally, it works perfectly and predictably. I'm curious to see whether putting an extra magnet on the side will help, as another poster suggested; if that solves the problem, it would be terrific.

As far as I can tell, the little dots on the control ring are meaningless. They do not indicate whether anything will happen. Turning the control ring sometimes doesn't give you light for a while, with spacing between the modes being unpredictable as well. Again, this might be a magnet issue.

I think the idea of the UI is cool. But if I turn the light on by turning the control ring in one direction, then turning the control ring in the other direction should ALWAYS reduce the level or shut the light off. If that is too difficult or expensive to implement, then I would much rather have a more limited UI. It would also be nice if there was a detent for OFF, which would be good for pocket carry, since I would know that the light was off and could check it without taking the light out of my pocket.

As of now, the unpredictability of the UI is the only thing keeping this from being the best keychain light on the market.

Hi Z-Tab,

Thanks for the thorough writeup :thumbsup

The little dots, not my preference but I was thinking they might be helpful in testing to help gauge how many turns, etc...
I hope to get rid of them in production.

The UI, completely agree stability is key.
I'm working under the assumption that its completely achievable.

I'm also a big usability geek. I think the best designs, need no manual or instruction book and I realized that the UI was still unstable but figured it would be great to get feedback this early to decide what the best direction to take will be for the production version.

There's still plenty more feedback to come but seems like these are popular concepts:

UI
1) detents or tactile feedback on mode change
2) fixed OFF position
3) limit the direction of the ramp up to one direction only and ramp down to the opposite direction
4) consider clockwise rotation to ramp up (1>2>3>4) and reverse to ramp down, and counter clockwise to start at 4, then ramp down (4>3>2>1).
5) reduce the amount of rotation required to trigger a mode change

Design
1) tamer tail fins (or optional fins)
2) different way to attach the clip
3) wider lanyard hole
4) consider an OP reflector
5) confirm o-ring sizing/groove at base of head
6) consider improving the extendable body mechanics

Function
1) no time limit on high with 1.2~1.5V battery
2) eliminate parasitic drain issues
3) re-confirm over-discharge protection

I probably missed a few but falling asleep as sunrise approaches quickly....

Excellent writeup ZTab! You hit upon several points I neglected in my own feedback but agree with completely in regards to the 10250 tube and UI. Very well explained!

+1

Tgwnn

 

[Jonnor]

Received my X048 today and this is my initial impression after one hour of testing.

Critical (would definitely not buy one if not improved):
- No lock-out function (can not lay around in a pocket)
- Goes to 1.5lm after 30 sec on high with AAA (can not EDC with AAA)

Major (would hesitate to buy):
- No o-ring on extended part of short battery compartement (is it waterproof)?
- Very small threads on all mechanical parts (how long will they last?)

Minor (could live with):
- Flimsy UI (at best)
- No spare o-rings or key-ring (would prefer this over the calendar and other extras)
- Clip is bent (not parallell with body)
- Weak spring makes the battery rattle if the light is shaken
- Unfocused beam

Suggestions:
- Lock-out function with turning battery compartment half a turn
- Temperature regulation turns down one step at a time
- O-ring between extender and main part of short battery compartment
- Replace free calendar, dog tag and other extras with key ring, o-rings and perhaps some grease
- Clockwise increase brightness, counter-clockwise decrease brightness
- Fewer, but stronger threads
- Stronger spring


What I absolute LOVE:
- Size and Weight
- Can use different batteries
- Torpedo case


Great job so far Guy!

 

[smarkum]

so much snow that the torpedo case is TOTALLY buried
It will probably be quite a while before it is uncovered. . . . given that it is 12 degrees right now!

I figured out something that makes the UI work flawlessly on my Torpedo. If I align the dots and turn it in one direction and stop at the next dot; I can then turn it back in the other direction for a lower mode. The key for mine is topping on the dots though. I can even go past two dots on the way up and as long as I end on a dot, it will go back down when I turn the other direction.
This may have been noted already, but if it was, I missed it. . . Definitely makes the case (in my mind) for an indent so we can feel where the sweet spot is and we don't have to look at the light. . . I think it would be much easier to use that way. However, I'm excited I figured out how to make it consistently either go up or down. That helps a lot!
I'm still amazed how this light can light up and entire room! That is some emitter!!!!

 

[Jonnor]

Definitely makes the case (in my mind) for an indent so we can feel where the sweet spot is and we don't have to look at the light. . .

+1

Would make the UI much better.

 

[DBCstm]

Now you just need extension tubes so you can run the Torpedo longer...enabling you to melt all that nasty white stuff! Nice pics, good luck finding your case again! (worried about snow sharks)

Nice points to ponder everybody, and yes SMarkum, the white dots lining up have been noted and I'll definitely keep that one in mind...as much as I can keep anything in mind. Thanks for the info Tribal Council.

 

[walterr839]

I've been playing with #039 for a week now and really like the light BUT the UI has been inconsistent until I tried Smarkums advice. It seems that turning the ring 180 degrees
does the trick. I can finally, consistently, change power levels up and down.

I'm using the AAA barrel with a protected Lion cell for the most part (its a bit too long) but have tried the 10250 and an alkaline AAA.

I too think the timed power down from level IV to level I needs to be addressed. Remove it when using alkaline AAA's - I don't think it heats up enough to be problem and set it to drop down a level at time
on Lions

The change from level I to II seems too close. For me I would prefer a lower level one as I only use it moving around the house at night with dark adapted eyes and don't nee that much light.

Compared to my Ti HF it's lighter and I can use it with one hand.

Thanks Guy for putting this great little light in my hands

 

[cnlson]

one other thing i noticed today, if you tap it on end or drop it the spring isn't strong enough to keep it from losing contact with the terminal and it shuts off.

 

[the_guy_with_no_name]

Received my X048 today and this is my initial impression after one hour of testing.

Critical (would definitely not buy one if not improved):
- No lock-out function (can not lay around in a pocket)
- Goes to 1.5lm after 30 sec on high with AAA (can not EDC with AAA)

Major (would hesitate to buy):
- No o-ring on extended part of short battery compartement (is it waterproof)?
- Very small threads on all mechanical parts (how long will they last?)

Minor (could live with):
- Flimsy UI (at best)
- No spare o-rings or key-ring (would prefer this over the calendar and other extras)
- Clip is bent (not parallell with body)
- Weak spring makes the battery rattle if the light is shaken
- Unfocused beam

Suggestions:
- Lock-out function with turning battery compartment half a turn
- Temperature regulation turns down one step at a time
- O-ring between extender and main part of short battery compartment
- Replace free calendar, dog tag and other extras with key ring, o-rings and perhaps some grease
- Clockwise increase brightness, counter-clockwise decrease brightness
- Fewer, but stronger threads
- Stronger spring


What I absolute LOVE:
- Size and Weight
- Can use different batteries
- Torpedo case


Great job so far Guy!

Hi Jonnor,

Thanks very much for the feedback and the intuitively formatted list :thumbsup:

Critical: I believe these can be addressed with mostly a firmware only change
Major:
There is an o-ring on the extendable tube, at the base which will keep water out.
Challenge is that it does tend to get eaten up by the threads if not well greased.
Part of the reason for the thread height is due to the extendable body and overall profile but that said I don't foresee any issue with how long the threads will last if they are well greased.

Minor:
UI, of course, still beta. Noted and its not yet perfect at this stage.
O-rings/keyring of course will be included with production version.
The calendar, is not officially part of the Torpedo package, timing just worked out that way (eg. calendar was ready early in the year, which coincided with Torpedo X shipping). The other things....they are a thank you to commemorate a few years of work on this project but honestly not calculated into the cost.
Clip, I'm very open to suggestions on it. The first clip design was a lower profile but seemed to lack strength.
To make it reversible/two-way ended up the way it is though I felt I'd still prefer a lower profile.
Spring: also will be replaced. The existing one seems like more of a fuse than a spring.
Beam: profile is flood but I can consider a more focused version too

Suggestions/Loves:
Thank you for those too.

In general, the majority of the points listed seem easily addressable :twothumbs

so much snow that the torpedo case is TOTALLY buried
It will probably be quite a while before it is uncovered. . . . given that it is 12 degrees right now!

I figured out something that makes the UI work flawlessly on my Torpedo. If I align the dots and turn it in one direction and stop at the next dot; I can then turn it back in the other direction for a lower mode. The key for mine is topping on the dots though. I can even go past two dots on the way up and as long as I end on a dot, it will go back down when I turn the other direction.
This may have been noted already, but if it was, I missed it. . . Definitely makes the case (in my mind) for an indent so we can feel where the sweet spot is and we don't have to look at the light. . . I think it would be much easier to use that way. However, I'm excited I figured out how to make it consistently either go up or down. That helps a lot!
I'm still amazed how this light can light up and entire room! That is some emitter!!!!

Hi Smarkum,

Thanks for the photo, feedback and dot advice.

Still seems like there is a lot of variance between X's and their performance.
I'm working on a rigid circuit version which I think can help eliminate a lot of that.
The firmware needs to be enhanced/revisited and personally I'm considering whether the on board computer chip is the best one for the job.

Now you just need extension tubes so you can run the Torpedo longer...enabling you to melt all that nasty white stuff! Nice pics, good luck finding your case again! (worried about snow sharks)

Nice points to ponder everybody, and yes SMarkum, the white dots lining up have been noted and I'll definitely keep that one in mind...as much as I can keep anything in mind. Thanks for the info Tribal Council.

Thanks Dale
Might need a metal detector to find the case

I've been playing with #039 for a week now and really like the light BUT the UI has been inconsistent until I tried Smarkums advice. It seems that turning the ring 180 degrees
does the trick. I can finally, consistently, change power levels up and down.

I'm using the AAA barrel with a protected Lion cell for the most part (its a bit too long) but have tried the 10250 and an alkaline AAA.

I too think the timed power down from level IV to level I needs to be addressed. Remove it when using alkaline AAA's - I don't think it heats up enough to be problem and set it to drop down a level at time
on Lions

The change from level I to II seems too close. For me I would prefer a lower level one as I only use it moving around the house at night with dark adapted eyes and don't nee that much light.

Compared to my Ti HF it's lighter and I can use it with one hand.

Thanks Guy for putting this great little light in my hands

Hi walterr839,

Thanks for the feedback. :thumbsup:
Need to check the internal logic but I agree that no auto step down with AAAs is needed, and ideally shift to mode 3 instead of mode 1. Agreed also on the change of level between I & II and that too should be addressable easily enough.

Thanks for letting us know the dots helped.

one other thing i noticed today, if you tap it on end or drop it the spring isn't strong enough to keep it from losing contact with the terminal and it shuts off.

Hi cnlson,

Thanks and thats an interesting point to note in general when designing a flashlight with an electronic switch



Ok, so here's some thoughts ......
triggered/inspired by the feedback so far.

A fixed starting/stopping point, might actually serve to completely eliminate the UI issues as its much easier to set fixed thresholds to determine where the magnet is at start and what action needs to happen internally.

If the rotation was kept at less that a full turn from start to high mode, we can (I hope) blow away the logic used to remember rotational direction etc, as each point on the circle will have a fixed value (akin to a GPS location) that we can measure.

The more I think about it, it would seem that the magnetic control IVR lights that I've messed with, have a less than a 360 degree rotation and perhaps for that same reason, being able to know the exact location as opposed to the direction or amount rotated which it would seem adds a huge amount of additional logic overhead and introduces additional complications as a result.

I'm thinking a < 360 rotation will allow accuracy even without a fixed starting point though.

From experience with HF's and driving cars at high-ish speed, It would either need more friction/dampening of the control ring, and or detents for each location, as the area (rotational arc) for each mode would be shortened, so just like a car who's steering wheel is tightened at high speeds to prevent over steering, a similar effect can accommodate for the shorter arc (be it dampening or fixed location).

Sincere thanks for all the feedback so far. This is an amazing help!!

Tgwnn

 

[cnlson]

Ok, so here's some thoughts ......
triggered/inspired by the feedback so far.

A fixed starting/stopping point, might actually serve to completely eliminate the UI issues as its much easier to set fixed thresholds to determine where the magnet is at start and what action needs to happen internally.

If the rotation was kept at less that a full turn from start to high mode, we can (I hope) blow away the logic used to remember rotational direction etc, as each point on the circle will have a fixed value (akin to a GPS location) that we can measure.

The more I think about it, it would seem that the magnetic control IVR lights that I've messed with, have a less than a 360 degree rotation and perhaps for that same reason, being able to know the exact location as opposed to the direction or amount rotated which it would seem adds a huge amount of additional logic overhead and introduces additional complications as a result.
Tgwnn

Guy,
Are there advantages to a magnetic switch over a fixed circuit type switch?

also if it is less than 360 degrees are you going to be able to start at high or low depending on the direction you turn from off?

4) consider clockwise rotation to ramp up (1>2>3>4) and reverse to ramp down, and counter clockwise to start at 4, then ramp down (4>3>2>1).

I'm thinking a < 360 rotation will allow accuracy even without a fixed starting point though.

 

[flashflood]

Guy: yes! Sub-360 would be great on multiple levels (heh). Most importantly, hard off. Second, no longer any need for a direct-to-4 interface because it's just one full twist to get there. Third, a huge advantage of Torpedo's control ring over a twisty is that it allows one-handed operation. That's really important for a keychain light, because I'm almost always carrying stuff to or from the car -- laptop, groceries, dry cleaning, etc. But one-handed operation isn't really practical with four twists. Fourth, this would eliminate all time sensitivity from the UI. One thing that drives me nuts about my Fenix LD01 (a multi-mode twisty) is that to change modes, you have to get the interval between twists just right, and any partial contact can mess it up.

I guess what I really want is a 'volume knob', but with detents like the input selector knob on a preamp. That would be perfect.

 

[climberkid]

I partially disagree with the sub 360 idea. What would the disadvantages be for full 360 rotation per light level (or 180). That way every level (or every other) has a detent. Will that perpetuate the problem we already have as opposed to building it more like the HF?

 

[jorn]

Mine turned on by accident today. Dont think the ring moved. Sweep it past the speaker on my phone, and it turns on.

 

[smarkum]

^^ :what:interesting!