Jmpaul320 OTF Lumen Sphere Readings & throw measurements!

jmpaul320

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Thats up in deft x territory :O

yeah - i was surprised at how high it was too. very small hot spot but it will burn you :)


if deft x was made today with the new s4 bin it could be ~20% brighter

and thats with the stock driver...

i dont even want to think about a deftx-vn with a 5 amp driver... probably 1.6mcd lol.
 

Alex1234

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Thats what i never understood about Michaels lights. He always worked endlessly to get epic throw but he would never do much current boost. Im not saying drive it as much as vinh but if he did a bit more then throw results would have been better aswell.
 

jmpaul320

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Thats what i never understood about Michaels lights. He always worked endlessly to get epic throw but he would never do much current boost. Im not saying drive it as much as vinh but if he did a bit more then throw results would have been better aswell.

I think he wanted to make a truly unique light while keeping it 100% practical for non-flashaholic use... ie: turn the light on and not worry about overheating etc on any mode
 

Alex1234

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Thats my other issue. Why the heck was the light 900+ dollars. All it was is a dedome xpg2 on copper. With a waven collor on top. I understand the waven collor adds a bit aswell as the very micro adjustments that need to be made but just dont see how it adds up to 900 per light. I think this light should have been priced around 400 -500 dollars. I could not justify 900 dollars when there was so much more potential for this light if pushed harder.
 

thedoc007

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Thats my other issue. Why the heck was the light 900+ dollars. All it was is a dedome xpg2 on copper. With a waven collor on top. I understand the waven collor adds a bit aswell as the very micro adjustments that need to be made but just dont see how it adds up to 900 per light. I think this light should have been priced around 400 -500 dollars. I could not justify 900 dollars when there was so much more potential for this light if pushed harder.

If you don't feel it is right for you, then that's fine. But Michael spent a HUGE amount of time researching, developing, and fine-tuning each light. Whereas Vinh might spend fifteen minutes on an average mod (just a number, no idea of the exact amount) Michael would spend HOURS on each. Naturally he wants to get paid for his time. He also rejected many inferior parts (that were not necessarily defective, but didn't meet his high standards)...which further adds to the cost. He also individually certifies each one for a given performance...again, something that takes time. You also have to remember that he did this years ago, when technology was not as advanced. It is a testament to his genius that his record has STILL not been surpassed in any light of anywhere near the same size, even years later. The TM36vn is FAR larger, and still doesn't match it. If you think it is "just" a de-dome on copper, you are sorely mistaken.

It is expensive, and it isn't right for most people. But I don't think you can say it is unfairly priced.
 

jmpaul320

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Thats my other issue. Why the heck was the light 900+ dollars. All it was is a dedome xpg2 on copper. With a waven collor on top. I understand the waven collor adds a bit aswell as the very micro adjustments that need to be made but just dont see how it adds up to 900 per light. I think this light should have been priced around 400 -500 dollars. I could not justify 900 dollars when there was so much more potential for this light if pushed harder.

he actually lost money on the whole venture - i paid $600 myself becuase i preordered the light

he did spend a lot of time trying to get things perfect with each light.
 

TEEJ

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Thats my other issue. Why the heck was the light 900+ dollars. All it was is a dedome xpg2 on copper. With a waven collor on top. I understand the waven collor adds a bit aswell as the very micro adjustments that need to be made but just dont see how it adds up to 900 per light. I think this light should have been priced around 400 -500 dollars. I could not justify 900 dollars when there was so much more potential for this light if pushed harder.

Except you've way over simplified it.

He had to make a new head/bezel because he was using a microscope to focus that wavien collar, and could not get the stock parts to clear the aspheric lens (You forgot to mention it was also there), and so forth. He paid ROYALTIES on those wavien collars too, something private users don't have to pay.

It took man many hours to tune each light, test each light to certify its output, etc.

He STARTED offering it for less....closer to what you are talking about actually, as he LATER found out how hard it was, and what kind of customization it took, and the hidden costs (Royalties, dust control, casting new parts, etc...to get to that 1 million cd point.

Remember, the DEFTX was using mostly stock drive levels so there was no over heating issue, no need for high drain cells, etc....its a different approach.

So, absopositivilutely a DEFTXVn would probably be a potential propulsion device for NASA, etc....but its two different build philosophies.


Vinh is getting 900 k cd from a REFLECTOR...with hard driving. Saab was getting it from an ASPHERIC with mild driving.

For most of us, the reflector's beam is more useful than an aspheric's.


After that, its about how you'd use it. If the heat management issues on a hard driven Vn are OK, especially given the cost differences, Vn's are a no brainer.

If the light needs to be on for an hour at a time, at the max output...Saab's stuff starts to be a better option.


At this point though, as Vinh can take advantage of stuff Saab didn't have back when making the Defts...you can buy 2 or 3 of Vinh's, and rotate them to allow cooling, and beat the Deft's run time at max...at a better price point.

:D
 

Alex1234

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i understand and im sure some of that 900 dollars was the labor part. weather that was 50 bucks or 300 bucks who knows.

i bet if vinh were to make his own version and im sure it would be a bit rougher version pushed very hard it would very much out preform the defx.
im sure vinh could get over 1.5m kcd if he got his hands on a deft x lol

im sure michael has a lot more experience with optics then vinh but im sure vinh could get over a million kcd if he built his own deft x. im sure Michel could fine tune it better tho
 

Alex1234

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you make some very nice points i forgot about he had to customize a new bezel.

id pay $1000 for a vn touched deftx that does over 1.5 million kcd ;)

Except you've way over simplified it.

He had to make a new head/bezel because he was using a microscope to focus that wavien collar, and could not get the stock parts to clear the aspheric lens (You forgot to mention it was also there), and so forth. He paid ROYALTIES on those wavien collars too, something private users don't have to pay.

It took man many hours to tune each light, test each light to certify its output, etc.

He STARTED offering it for less....closer to what you are talking about actually, as he LATER found out how hard it was, and what kind of customization it took, and the hidden costs (Royalties, dust control, casting new parts, etc...to get to that 1 million cd point.

Remember, the DEFTX was using mostly stock drive levels so there was no over heating issue, no need for high drain cells, etc....its a different approach.

So, absopositivilutely a DEFTXVn would probably be a potential propulsion device for NASA, etc....but its two different build philosophies.


Vinh is getting 900 k cd from a REFLECTOR...with hard driving. Saab was getting it from an ASPHERIC with mild driving.

For most of us, the reflector's beam is more useful than an aspheric's.


After that, its about how you'd use it. If the heat management issues on a hard driven Vn are OK, especially given the cost differences, Vn's are a no brainer.

If the light needs to be on for an hour at a time, at the max output...Saab's stuff starts to be a better option.


At this point though, as Vinh can take advantage of stuff Saab didn't have back when making the Defts...you can buy 2 or 3 of Vinh's, and rotate them to allow cooling, and beat the Deft's run time at max...at a better price point.

:D
 

ike1985

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What is currently the lumen king for 1x18650? what about throw king, is that still Tx25C2vn?
 

didi_1606

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Wowww... I just know from this thread, that tm36vn is the throw king on vn light... I thought he never did that... Wondering is there any deft-x coming out of vinh's workshop?
 

windstrings

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I have an early version deft "AA batteries" and while it's beautiful and light, I never use it because of lack of perspective from no spill and the beam is so narrow it's like looking for something with a very wide laser.

If you already know where your target is, your good otherwise your looking through a large straw.

I prefer a faint soft spill with a blinding shaft of light to illuminate my target.

Too much spill from the multi head type lights give night blindness making it impossible to see an object far in the distance because the bright close in surroundings overwhelm the eyes.
 

thedoc007

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What is currently the lumen king for 1x18650? what about throw king, is that still Tx25C2vn?

Lumen king has to be a multi-emitter setup. The CQvn, or something else like it. One emitter just can't compete...all LEDs I know of become less and less efficient the harder you drive them.

Throw king for 1x18650 is definitely NOT the TX25C2, of any flavor. Right from the first post in this thread:

Eagle Tac M25C2vn Turbo head XML2 PDT
Sony vtc5
1257@ turn on
1175@ 30 sec
814 high
578 mid
170 low
53 low2
Throw - 580,000 lux

Yep, believe it or not, that is a 1x18650 light. It is freakishly disproportionate (in my view), and has no practical advantage over multi-18650 lights, but if you want throw, it delivers the numbers, that's for sure.
 

Capolini

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@ doc^^^

He asked LUMEN KING FOR 1 X 18650 NOT overall lumen king.

As far as "Overall" goes,you missed the party Doc!! It is the XPG2 version below.

Eagle Tac M25C2vn Turbo head XPG2 PDT
Sony vtc5
783@ turn on
754@ 30 sec
228 low
Throw - 775,000 lux



I know he asked a general question about 1 X 18650 THROW King.

Also there are DIFFERENT classifications that fit 18650. How can you compare the M25C2vn Turbo Head to a TX25C2vn??!! That is why Vinh categorizes them!;)
 

thedoc007

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@ doc^^^

He asked LUMEN KING FOR 1 X 18650 NOT overall lumen king.

Yes, I know. The CQvn is a 1x18650 drop-in. Multi-emitter, not multi-cell. Obviously there are many, many lights that easily exceed the CQvn...but not many (if any) do it with 1x18650.

Good call on the XP-G2 version, though. Neither one appeals to me at all, but that is a very impressive number.
 

Skylumen

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Nitecore TM36vn XPG2 PDTc
924@ turn on
907@ 30 sec
Throw - 903,000 lux


Hey 900K Lux ;-). This light is till too freaking expensive and large...

I will see if I can break the 1M Lux with a DriverVNX2 or factory driver boosted and a XPG2 PDTC in a TK61vn. If I can we might have a "Budget" 1M lux Light in our arsenal.
 
Last edited:

Skylumen

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I just noticed we almost hit 1000 OTF lumen with a XPG2 DEDOME! LOL

XPG2 is not hot at all so it can probably run Max continuously in a TK61vn or TM36vn ;-)
 

Capolini

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Vihn said:

I will see if I can break the 1M Lux with a DriverVNX2 or factory driver boosted and a XPG2 PDTC in a TK61vn. If I can we might have a "Budget" 1M lux Light in our arsenal.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I hope so!

ot here! I was googling chargers and IMR batteries and I found a place ACROSS the street from me that sells them WHOLESALE!! I use to walk Capo there but moved to the safer hiking trails! I live outside of town and that town is small!

In case anyone is interested:

http://liionwholesale.com/


 

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