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V54 Lumen & Lux Measurements

Alex1234

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

The important things to remember on Lux, to get a representative cd, is to measure it far enough away so that the beam has had time/room to form.

IE: The cd is the lux at one meter, but, measuring the lux AT one meter is almost always wrong to get the cd, because for the throwy lights, the beam may not REPRESENT the true cd until it is even 20 meters away.

We want REPRESENTATIVE cd values, because we use the cd to calculate how bright the spot will be on distant targets...to know if we could SEE SOMETHING at those ranges.

If the cd can be plugged into the calculation, and predict the lux on a distant target, its a good number.


Generally, the best way to FIND the representative cd (What the ANSI methods are supposed to be telling you), is to measure the lux at the brightest part of the beam (central typically) at various distances to find the distance at which the cd stops rising/levels off.

The lux will tend to drop as you move further away from the light (Due to inverse square law), but, the cd can rise even as the lux drops....because the cd takes the distance into account.

For most of the lights, if measured at 20 meters for example, the beam will have formed by then. Just multiply the measured lux at 20 meters by 400 to get the lux at 1 meter (the cd).

So, if you get 250 lux at 20 meters, that means the light has a cd of 100,000, and so forth.


For your lux meter, generally, it will be most accurate at the central part of its range/range with best resolution...so, typically, a more distant reading will reduce the measured lux to the meter's best resolution.

TEEJ smart
 

Skylumen

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

Thanks for all the tips. I will tackle Lux after my trip.
 

jmpaul320

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

Lux is just as easy as lumen. I used a tripod and measured at 8m and averaged 8 tests
 

Skylumen

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

post 1 is updated with confirmed numbers in blue
 

TEEJ

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

Justin--Is there a formula to find the multiplier for the distance(m) being tested




You use the inverse square law.

I gave an example (Above) where you can multiply the lux at 20 meters by 400 to get the lux at 1 meter, which is the light's cd.





The Inverse Square Law

The inverse square law defines the relationship between the irradiance from a point source and distance. It states that the intensity per unit area varies in inverse proportion to the square of the distance.
E = I / d2​

In other words, if you measure 16 W/cm2​ at 1 meter, you will measure 4 W/cm2​ at 2 meters, and can calculate the irradiance at any other distance. An alternate form is often more convenient:
E1​ d1​2​ = E2​ d2​2​

Distance is measured to the first luminating surface - the filament of a clear bulb, or the glass envelope of a frosted bulb.

Basic-Light-Measurement-Principles-Chapter-6-Light-Measurement-Handbook_img_0.jpg









Sooooo, if you have a reading of lux at a distance, and want to back calculate back to the cd...

...just remember that at half the distance, its 4x as bright (lux), and that at double the distance, its 1/4 as bright, and so forth.


So, a measurement at 20 m would require multiplying the measured lux by 400.

A measurement at 5 m would require multiplying the measured lux by 25.

A measurement at 10 m would require multiplying the measured lux by 100.

A measurement at 100 m would require multiplying the measured lux by 1,000.

And so forth.

:D


Again, the beam needs time to form...so, a measurement at a given distance may not represent a number you can plug in to get it at other distances.

IE: If I want the cd of a good throwing light (Its lux at one meter), and I MEASURE its lux AT one meter, I will NOT, ironically, have measured its cd (Lux at one meter).


So, you HAVE TO BE FAR ENOUGH AWAY, FOR THAT LIGHT, to get a representative cd value.


The way to be SURE the cd is representative, is if it DOES allow prediction of lux at farther distances.

So, if you measure the lux at say 5 meters, and at 10 meters, the measured lux at 5 will be more than at 10 meters, BUT, the cd calculations may give DIFFERENT numbers....if 5 m was too close...for that light.

You need to measure so far away that you "Know" the beam has had room to form...or, simply take a second measurement farther away to see if the cd is improved, or not.

If the cd gets better on the farther distance, you then do a THIRD measurement at yet still FARTHER away...to see if THAT calculated cd is better than the 2nd one.

If its the same cd at the 3rd point, then, the second point WAS far enough, for that light...because it predicted the measurement at the third point, and so forth.


If the second point's cd is the same as the first point's...you don't need a 3rd point, as the 1st point was representative, and so forth.


Example:

I measure 7,500 lux at 5 meters. I multiply that by 25, to get the cd, which would work out to 187,500 cd

If I measure again at 10 meters and get 2,500 lux, and multiply that by 100, to get the cd, which works out to 250,000 cd....I know 5 M was too close.


(Notice I measured a lower LUX, but that lower lux, because of the longer DISTANCE, calculated out to a higher cd)

If I measure a 3rd time at 20 meters...and get 625 lux, and multiply that by 400 to get the cd, which works out to 250,000 cd...I KNOW that I got 250k cd on the second and third measurements, and that 5 M was too close and that 10 m was far enough....because it predicted the lux at the farther (20 m) distance.


Does that make sense?

:D





The entire reason for wanting to know a light's cd, is TO be able to predict the lux at any other distance....so, that's why you want a representative number for the cd...as when that representative cd is plugged into the inverse square law...you DO get the predicted lux on distant targets.
 
Last edited:

Bigwilly

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

Excellent explanation TEEJ. Thank you.
 

Skylumen

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

P60vnT Mule Triple XPL 5700K 3700/3500
P60vnT Triple XPL HI 3000/2820
 

Skylumen

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

I am going to start doing lux readings soon. I think lux readings for lights under 700K or so should be relatively fine with my meter and the space I have to work with. I will measure at 7.5m and calculate back to 1m. My readings might be low or high compare to the truth but at least all my readings will be similar to each other and it will serves as a reference point to one another.
 

Bigwilly

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

I am going to start doing lux readings soon. I think lux readings for lights under 700K or so should be relatively fine with my meter and the space I have to work with. I will measure at 7.5m and calculate back to 1m. My readings might be low or high compare to the truth but at least all my readings will be similar to each other and it will serves as a reference point to one another.
It doesn't matter if they're high or low as you said, it's ok as you will be testing the lights and the figures will be comparable. I'm excited. [emoji2]
 

Skylumen

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

Recent numbers...Lumen looks right on but lux numbers seem sometimes low and sometimes high...What you guys think?

HERE IS WHAT I THINK:

M43vn Goldilock XPG2s DD: 6000/5930, 107K Max Lux HIGH
TK75vnQ XML2 PDT+ DriverVNX2: 4,600/4,350, 340K Max Lux, 1170m Max Throw OK

TK75vnQ Boost Only: 4,300/4,200, 140K Max Lux, 750m Max Throw OK

TK75vnQ70 SD + DriverVNX2: 14,000/13,300, 210K Max Lux, 920m Max Throw
OK
Olight SR96vn 3*XHP70 CW Shaved Dome + 3DriverVNX2 + Factory Battery : 9,050/8,900, 100K Max Lux, 640m Max Throw
OK
X60vn XML2 PDT: 6,350/6,170, 550K Max Lux, 1,485m Max Throw LOW

6XPvn: 4200/3950, 175K Max Lux
LOW
6XLvn: 5700/5480, 130K Max Lux LITTLE LOW

TK16vn XML2 PDT: 1100,1030, 46K Max Lux HIGH
K40Mvn Boost Only: 3250/3150, 88K Max Lux
OK
LD60vn + DriverVNX1 + XML2 PDT: 2400/2530, 130K Max Lux LOW
 

lumentia

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Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

Recent numbers...Lumen looks right on but lux numbers seem sometimes low and sometimes high...What you guys think?

HERE IS WHAT I THINK:

M43vn Goldilock XPG2s DD: 6000/5930, 107K Max Lux HIGH
TK75vnQ XML2 PDT+ DriverVNX2: 4,600/4,350, 340K Max Lux, 1170m Max Throw OK

TK75vnQ Boost Only: 4,300/4,200, 140K Max Lux, 750m Max Throw OK

TK75vnQ70 SD + DriverVNX2: 14,000/13,300, 210K Max Lux, 920m Max Throw
OK
Olight SR96vn 3*XHP70 CW Shaved Dome + 3DriverVNX2 + Factory Battery : 9,050/8,900, 100K Max Lux, 640m Max Throw
OK
X60vn XML2 PDT: 6,350/6,170, 550K Max Lux, 1,485m Max Throw LOW

6XPvn: 4200/3950, 175K Max Lux
LOW
6XLvn: 5700/5480, 130K Max Lux LITTLE LOW

TK16vn XML2 PDT: 1100,1030, 46K Max Lux HIGH
K40Mvn Boost Only: 3250/3150, 88K Max Lux
OK
LD60vn + DriverVNX1 + XML2 PDT: 2400/2530, 130K Max Lux LOW
Woo hooo, that M43vn goldilocks is mine :D Well see how she stacks up against my k40mvn which is around 105KCD I think, and AT LEAST 4000 lumens, if not a bit more.
 

Bigwilly

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Jun 14, 2014
Messages
1,111
Re: V54 Lumen & Throw Measurements

Recent numbers...Lumen looks right on but lux numbers seem sometimes low and sometimes high...What you guys think?

HERE IS WHAT I THINK:

M43vn Goldilock XPG2s DD: 6000/5930, 107K Max Lux HIGH
TK75vnQ XML2 PDT+ DriverVNX2: 4,600/4,350, 340K Max Lux, 1170m Max Throw OK

TK75vnQ Boost Only: 4,300/4,200, 140K Max Lux, 750m Max Throw OK

TK75vnQ70 SD + DriverVNX2: 14,000/13,300, 210K Max Lux, 920m Max Throw
OK
Olight SR96vn 3*XHP70 CW Shaved Dome + 3DriverVNX2 + Factory Battery : 9,050/8,900, 100K Max Lux, 640m Max Throw
OK
X60vn XML2 PDT: 6,350/6,170, 550K Max Lux, 1,485m Max Throw LOW

6XPvn: 4200/3950, 175K Max Lux
LOW
6XLvn: 5700/5480, 130K Max Lux LITTLE LOW

TK16vn XML2 PDT: 1100,1030, 46K Max Lux HIGH
K40Mvn Boost Only: 3250/3150, 88K Max Lux
OK
LD60vn + DriverVNX1 + XML2 PDT: 2400/2530, 130K Max Lux LOW

I think you got it. Even if you feel they're a little low, it gives us a very good idea of what we're considering to purchase. I'm so glad you're putting out both lumens and lux. Thank you for your efforts.
 

Bigwilly

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Jun 14, 2014
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It would be cool if for whatever reason you had a light that jmpaul320 measured and then you did it to compare. I'm just a nerd when it comes to numbers. Any reason why you think justin got 6600 lumens and 610k lux and you got 6350 and 550k? He was using the previous generation and the LEDs were burned in. Could that be it? Could be just light to light variation? Or is the numbers close enough that our eyes couldn't really tell a difference and you need the meters to see the difference?
 

lumentia

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It would be cool if for whatever reason you had a light that jmpaul320 measured and then you did it to compare. I'm just a nerd when it comes to numbers. Any reason why you think justin got 6600 lumens and 610k lux and you got 6350 and 550k? He was using the previous generation and the LEDs were burned in. Could that be it? Could be just light to light variation? Or is the numbers close enough that our eyes couldn't really tell a difference and you need the meters to see the difference?
610k vs 550 k you wouldn't be able to tell the difference for sure. As for lumens, same deal. Some led just do better than others but in practice it take a huge difference to be able to be very noticeable.

One other point to note, I was measuring lux with my phone, and got some rather disappointing numbers from a k40vn I had, even though it seemed like a great performer. It also had a slightly green tint. So I sold it. Turns out that later on after doing some 'tree searching' with it and a bunch of other lights, it threw further than any other light I had owned up to that point because it illuminated a tree that no other light I had would reach.

So the numbers from my phone app lux meter are rather unreliable. I got rid of possibly the best k40vn ever built because of my phone app lux meter. My brother's best friend owns it now and is extremely happy with it which makes me happy cause he uses it all the time and is always raving about it. So it's still a win in my book.
 
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