Coronavirus - II

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bigburly912

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Yes. They are needed for patients on ventilators... you are knocked out.

Being on a vent non-sedated is traumatic to say the least.

I thought that ended up being a non factor as early as May because the number of ventilators didn't even come close to what they thought they would need and the drug shortage never came? This was news in early April or did something else happen? I'm not saying you are wrong but once again here we are with conflicting stories. I was almost certain this was all a speculation thing and then it got quiet because it never came to fruition. I'll have to read up on it of course but where the hell does somebody go for good information anymore?
 

Monocrom

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GAH. This is a worst case scenario for virus transmission. Talking spreads the virus farther than breathing and laughing spreads it even farther. Combine this with the tight space of an elevator and you're just asking for it.

Do some people think that wearing a mask makes you look weak? I think it makes you look very, very smart.


Unfortunately, it seems the best idea is to do what parents do with small children. You get children masks with cool designs on them so they'll want to wear them. For adults, make the masks a Fashion accessory that highlights their looks or you make them Tacti-cool as Hell! Large black mask not good enough? Put flames on it! Make the masks Urban Camo, or just camo. Black and silver American flag with a thin blue line as one of the stripes.

Might seem silly. But I'll openly admit that if someone gave me a very feminine floral-print mask because they thought I didn't have a mask at all.... I wouldn't wear it. Though if the situation was so bad that I didn't have any masks, I would. Needs must. Sadly, a huge chunk of folks don't get that.
 

Monocrom

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Food for thought on the LEO in elevators in New York thing:

If 400k New York folks have had it, at least 80% will be fine that would mean at least 320k folks. If 50% are over the thing that would be 200k. Being LEO and others in that field are first responders may have been early cases, could it be that those folks in elevators are batches of people who had it, recovered and can safely mingle with each other?
Just a thought.

In my state lots of folks had it, got well and are now back at work like normal and are not a threat to the general population anymore. In my state the numbers are maybe 12% of what New York is dealing with. Yet most of our deaths are in nursing homes.

The first person working with Mrs Fixer to show positive got pretty sick for about 5 days but in week 2 is nearing symptom free. The second one, the one who was symptom free but tested negative is still largely symptom free and speaks of a stuffy nose after a second week. That was 9 days ago when Mrs Fixer was near her. Her cold like symptoms are getting better while we await test results. Her energy level has returned to normal. I'm still symptom free aside from the same allergy symptoms I've been dealing with off and on for a couple of months now. So we presume the test will come back negative.


It's good to hear that Mrs. Fixer tested negative.

The problem with those LEOs is that there is no immunity.

There have been countless cases of individuals who got infected. Beat the infection. Developed the antibodies for the virus.... and then gotten re-infected!

It's not like a seasonal flu where if you get it, and recover from it, you're immune until next flu season when it returns in a slightly different form. Just different enough to possibly catch it again. Either more than one strain of the virus was accidentally released into the public at the same time, or the virus is constantly mutating just enough that it can easily re-infect those who beat it once. Those LEOs should know better. I'm just thankful that all of them use an office on the other side of the building, so thankfully don't pass by where my post happens to be.
 

turbodog

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I thought that ended up being a non factor as early as May because the number of ventilators didn't even come close to what they thought they would need and the drug shortage never came? This was news in early April or did something else happen? I'm not saying you are wrong but once again here we are with conflicting stories. I was almost certain this was all a speculation thing and then it got quiet because it never came to fruition. I'll have to read up on it of course but where the hell does somebody go for good information anymore?

Hospitals and drugs mfgs will adapt, but if patients trend too high...

https://www.idse.net/Covid-19/Artic...hortages-Still-Seen-in-Ventilator-Drugs/58778

I think everybody got complacent after NY got better... it just wasn't their turn yet.
 

bykfixer

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In some of the larger cities the numbers are still rising pretty steady. Not like they were at first. Some cases began weeks and weeks ago are folks still in bad shape as the new cases rise. So it's not a thing of beds being emptied as quickly as new dreadfully ill arrive.

Are hospitals slowly becoming over whelmed instead of overwhelmed quickly like predicted? In some cities, probably so. Also remember that early on when elective surgeries were nixed some staff were let go for a time. Did those staff return? Are those elective surgery rooms covid capable?

Years ago my pop was on a ventalator for a week and they had to keep him in a near coma to keep him from trying to rip out tubes and such. If he awoke at all he'd be grabbing at stuff even though he appeared to be napping. So yeah, they have to keep the really sick konked out.

The whole thing is a helluva situation. A lot has been done wrong, a lot done right. Hopefully lessons learned will never have to be utilized again in our lifetime
 

Lynx_Arc

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It's good to hear that Mrs. Fixer tested negative.

The problem with those LEOs is that there is no immunity.

There have been countless cases of individuals who got infected. Beat the infection. Developed the antibodies for the virus.... and then gotten re-infected!

It's not like a seasonal flu where if you get it, and recover from it, you're immune until next flu season when it returns in a slightly different form. Just different enough to possibly catch it again. Either more than one strain of the virus was accidentally released into the public at the same time, or the virus is constantly mutating just enough that it can easily re-infect those who beat it once. Those LEOs should know better. I'm just thankful that all of them use an office on the other side of the building, so thankfully don't pass by where my post happens to be.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid19-reinfection-immune-response
 

Monocrom

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Why are LEO laughing on an elevator a threat while screaming rioters are not?

Perhaps the reason a lot of people are no longer donning masks is because they believe the experts have either been wrong or have been lying about COVID-19 from the start.

The experts told us:
COVID-19 would kill two million Americans.
The infection mortality rate was 3.4%.
COVID-19 doesn't discriminate against age.
It's still dangerous to send students to school.
Asymptomatic carriers are killing Granny.
Hospitals would be overwhelmed.
We'd need tens of thousands of ventilators.
Up to 80% of the population would need to be infected to reach herd-immunity.
Lock-downs were the only way to stop the spread of the virus.
The reproduction rate was slowed by lock-downs.
Wearing a mask won't protect you.
Wear a mask to protect yourself.
Wear a mask to protect others.

The list goes on and on ....

True. Rioters are definitely a threat.

As for most of that list.... covid-19 is still here. Some of those predictions can still come true.

Let's see if there's another wave of rioting and looting. And thus, more mass infections. At this point, the virus will likely stick around at least as long as the last one did, about 100 years back. While I don't think we'll hit 2M dead, would not be surprised if the final tally was at least somewhat close to that.

They were right about it not discriminating against age. It did at first. So did the Spanish Flu about 100 years ago. Then it stopped discriminating. Same thing has happened with covid-19. I've mentioned this before. Young, physically fit 16 year-old girl with no immune issues, developed a very slight cough. Then she was gone. She was one of the first after all the cases of the very elderly or very young got infected.

There are still carriers out there who show little or no symptoms of infection. Sending children back to school would still pose a huge risk to them.

Carriers who show little or no signs of infection are out there. When whole nursing homes are being infected, the most likely cause is due to an infected individual coming to work who did so because they felt fine and thought they weren't infected. Or, a family member of one of the residents visiting. Again, because they thought they weren't infected.

Yes, hospitals were overwhelmed. At least the ones in the major cities. Our governor here in NY converted the Jacob Javitts Convention Center into a make-shift hospital. (He did a horrendously awful job of it, but he did it.) He started to convert the tennis courts in Flushing Queens into another make-shift hospital, and there were talks with the Catholic church to convert one of the larger churches in the city to yet another hospital.

Yes, we need those ventilators. There is still a massively HUGE shortage of them in big cities.

Herd immunity.... A very early prediction that didn't take into account that folks infected with the virus who beat it, can easily get re-infected!

Only one nation has so far declared itself infection free.... New Zealand. How did they achieve this? Extremely strict lock-down rules which ironically the average citizen actually obeyed for 2 weeks straight. Lock-downs clearly work, the problem is people (usually) don't. They have to go out, they feel cooped up. So that's what they do. They go out. Then they say lock-downs don't work. It's like saying cats always land on their feet. So you get a few knuckleheads who toss them off of a high-rise roof and then say, "Nope! That's a myth."

Mask ~ I will never forgive the doctors who early on spread that disgusting myth. That wearing a mask will not protect you. They did that because they didn't want the general public to panic, buy up N95 masks and hoard them. So they figured they'd lie and say the masks won't help. Thinking that if people don't buy up N95s to wear, then there will be enough to go around to hospital workers. Including themselves. Clearly not taking into account that there would be Pandemic Profiteers who would buy up massive amounts of N95s early on to sell to people at obscene mark-ups. I started wearing masks when an independent scientist found that the two best ways to slow the spread of the virus (though not entirely eliminate it) was mask wearing, and washing one's hands often with hot soapy water for at least 20 seconds. Slow it down long enough, the faster it'll burn itself out.

If everyone wears a mask, yes; you're protecting others. Ironically, my mask protects you from my germs. And yours protects me from your germs. When I exhale, my germs are traveling through the air towards you while we are conversing. And vice-versa. That doesn't happen if I'm wearing a mask, and you are too. Unless your mask has an exhalation valve on it. In which case, get the Hell away from me. No mask, don't even walk up to me. Under such circumstances, then your mask gives you some protection as well.

In my old neighborhood, we used to have a lot of Asian immigrants who walked around wearing surgical masks. I didn't understand why. I then learned that they did so not because they didn't want to breath in germs from other people around them. They did it so as not to spread their germs to others. That's why the mask I wear protects you from my germs. The one you wear protects me from yours.
 
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Monocrom

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Monocrom

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I think everybody got complacent after NY got better... it just wasn't their turn yet.

Honestly, things have not gotten better here to any significant degree. Just a very small one. I'm surrounded by people who just want to pretend we can get back to business as usual. Back to normal. Our mayor plans on opening up more businesses come Monday. Don't be surprised if we get hit with a new wave of infected, here.
 

turbodog

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True. Rioters are definitely a threat.

...

Let's see if there's another wave of rioting and looting. And thus, more mass infections.
...
Young, physically fit 16 year-old girl with no immune issues, developed a very slight cough. Then she was gone. She was one of the first after all the cases of the very elderly or very young got infected.

...


The consensus is still out on reinfection. Best things I have read say that the _supposed_ reinfected person was never over the initial infection so they popped positive again.

Yes, there are always outliers, which this girl was. She could have had an underlying complicating factor that was not diagnosed due to her young age.

The _trends_ are that reinfection does not happen, and that young are practically unaffected.

So far...

IIRC, scientists are tracking somewhere between 3 and 8 strains domestically and worldwide.

That said, viruses tend to get weaker as time goes on, so mutation is not a for sure problem.
 

turbodog

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Honestly, things have not gotten better here to any significant degree. Just a very small one. I'm surrounded by people who just want to pretend we can get back to business as usual. Back to normal. Our mayor plans on opening up more businesses come Monday. Don't be surprised if we get hit with a new wave of infected, here.

Stuff can't stay closed for as long as this thing will be around. Entire classes of businesses are already going under, and that's NOW, while PPP funds are still in play.

bus companies
travel
sports
movies
etc

We stayed shutdown long enough for the supply chain to sort of catch up. We've got to move forward.

It's a big ole crap sandwich... only question is which end you want to take a bite from.
 

turbodog

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Sorry, but one of my jobs is in healthcare. I'm going to go with what I've seen over a random study. Come to NYC. We have a database of infected bigger than some countries do. Patients have gotten re-infected. And I don't mean a fluke one or two of them that could be dismissed as a mistake made by a doctor or nurse.

NY lit up first. This is also during the time which there were bad test kits in play. False positives and negatives abounded. So much so that the bad kits were pulled from the market, contributing to the shortage of kits.

Not trying to make this personal, but you're believing your anecdotal evidence over a actual, legit study? You realize how that sounds? And coming from someone 'in healthcare'?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097

"To date, no human reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 have been confirmed. Evidence of reinfection typically requires culture-based documentation of a new infection following clearance of the preceding infection or evidence of reinfection with a molecularly distinct form of the same virus."

Now where are my leeches....
 
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Poppy

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It's good to hear that Mrs. Fixer tested negative.

The problem with those LEOs is that there is no immunity.

There have been countless cases of individuals who got infected. Beat the infection. Developed the antibodies for the virus.... and then gotten re-infected!

<SNIP>.

<SNIP>

Herd immunity.... A very early prediction that didn't take into account that folks infected with the virus who beat it, can easily get re-infected!

<SNIP>

NY lit up first. This is also during the time which there were bad test kits in play. False positives and negatives abounded. So much so that the bad kits were pulled from the market, contributing to the shortage of kits.

Not trying to make this personal, but you're believing your anecdotal evidence over a actual, legit study? You realize how that sounds? And coming from someone 'in healthcare'?

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097

"To date, no human reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 have been confirmed. Evidence of reinfection typically requires culture-based documentation of a new infection following clearance of the preceding infection or evidence of reinfection with a molecularly distinct form of the same virus."

Now where are my leeches....

turbodog,
Thank you for your posts, with links to credible scientific information!

monocrom,
The repetition of stating that there is no immunity, does not make it true.

"Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth", is a law of propaganda often attributed to the Nazi Joseph Goebbels.

I think it was Dave D who first posted a link to a video by Dr John Cambell discussing and explaining a Korean study of why there were reports of re-infections, but in reality they were false positives. This led to the conclusion that there was no evidence of re-infections.

There is a belief that upon recovery, there IS immunity, the jury it still out, regarding how long it lasts. One of the many treatments attempting to treat this disease is to use antibodies from others who have recovered.
 
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Poppy

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Yes, hospitals were overwhelmed. At least the ones in the major cities. Our governor here in NY converted the Jacob Javitts Convention Center into a make-shift hospital. (He did a horrendously awful job of it, but he did it.) He started to convert the tennis courts in Flushing Queens into another make-shift hospital, and there were talks with the Catholic church to convert one of the larger churches in the city to yet another hospital.

Yes, we need those ventilators. There is still a massively HUGE shortage of them in big cities.
Certainly one is entitled to his opinion.
IMO, Governor Cuomo, getting help from the Federal government did a remarkable job at converting the Jacob Javits Center into an overflow hospital, in just a couple of weeks. This was the first in the country, and became the blue-print for other areas, and States, to create additional rapidly deployed hospitals as needed.

The Hospital ship was first going to be only overflow, but was converted to accept covid patients, which reduced its capacity to 50%.
Javits which was to be overflow, was also converted to accept and treat covid patients. IIRC the Javits is reported to have treated nearly 1,100 patients, and the hospital ship, less than 100.

Regarding a HUGH shortage of ventilators, I can't speak to that, but New York, about a month ago sent 400 of them to Massachusetts, and other states have returned them to the National stockpile. It is my understanding that Ford has gone back to making trucks instead of ventilators.

As reported May 11, 2020
https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2020/05/11/ford-gm-still-under-contract-to-produce-ventilators/

Ford and GM are still under contract to produce 30,000 - 50,000 ventilators.
Experts say we are overproducing them, and that they will be shipped overseas.
 
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scout24

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Ford and GM aren't the only ones producing them as fast as they can make them. There are several others. And if we're keeping people here employed making a quality product and sending them overseas, good for us.
 

Poppy

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Ford and GM aren't the only ones producing them as fast as they can make them. There are several others. And if we're keeping people here employed making a quality product and sending them overseas, good for us.
Now more than ever I am thinking... Buy American!

Yesterday, I picked up a small window AC unit. I went to a couple of big box stores, and they had off brand, and GE brand units. Pretty sure that GE is made in China, and that their ratings are not what they used to be, I didn't want to buy GE. LG made by an ally (Korea) was my first pick, but not to be found. I bought a Toshiba unit, thinking Made in Japan. Wrong! Made in China!

Very sad state of affairs!
:mecry:
 

Monocrom

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The consensus is still out on reinfection. Best things I have read say that the _supposed_ reinfected person was never over the initial infection so they popped positive again.

Hope you don't mind, I'm going to try to reply to as many points as I can in one post. Just for the sake of convenience.

Re-infection ~ This should be much easier to determine. Considering a person is quarantined in a hospital for 14 days and then recovers, safe to say by then the virus has run its course. When that same person comes back again, after those 14 days; that's re-infection. It amazes me that scientists and doctors at this point in time can't come to a consensus. The way things are, I doubt that'll happen until after the virus has completely burned itself out and someone bothers to check what admittance records exist.

The 16 year-old girl ~ They did autopsy the girl's body after her death. That's how they determined she was infected. But they found no underlying immune issues. And, about 100 years ago, the Spanish Flu did the very same thing. After awhile, the young and physically fit got sick and died as well. I hate to think the number of young people who are out there, taking risks, taking chances all because they think they're good. Or, if they get it, no big deal.

Strains and Mutations ~ Well, that is depressing to hear that there could be as many as eight different strains. As far as mutation, it sure as heck doesn't appear as though covid-19 is getting weaker. Ironically, a decrease in the number of infected in a major city is due to the fact that large chunks of infected are now deceased. Thus, no longer counted among the living infected.

Re-opening Businesses ~ Had most folks actually self-quarantined, this wouldn't be an issue now. It's not an easy problem to solve. But this just isn't the time for going back to business as usual. What good is opening up stores if customers get infected, a good chunk of them die. Or, recover but with severe lung issues. And about 1/3 of those who recover now have severe kidney issues to boot. Both of which will last a lifetime. Again, I'm not saying it's easy. But given the options, better to suffer financially for awhile longer than the alternative. Though granted, I'm in the minority on that.

The study ~ Yes, I believe my own two eyes (what I've seen) over a study. How does that sound to others? I really don't care. Okay, a group conducted a study. So I should believe the study over my two lying eyes? I'm sorry, but no. I won't go into the details of my healthcare job. Some members of CPF already know what I do. When you see what's going on out there. When you see a clear trend. Then it's real. You see people getting sent home. Having recovered. Feeling perfectly fine. Then you see the same faces returning a week or two later, that looks awfully like re-infection to me. Especially when it keeps happening and especially if it's closer to two weeks. If that's not re-infection, that's a heck of a trick! So does the virus pretend to be dormant for several days in a row before flaring up again, or is a patient re-infected? That's a heck of a horrifying trick if it's the former, instead of the latter. Maybe if the C-virus was developed by Umbrella Corp., I'd think it was capable of that. More likely than not, the patients are getting re-infected.

Oh, and of course, no study has ever been done by individuals who had an agenda to push. Every single study is done by those looking for completely objective answers with only noble goals in mind. (Obvious sarcasm.)

Leech Therapy ~ As for your leeches?.... Likely being used in modern leech therapy (hirudotherapy).
It's actual genuinely very fascinating. Turns out there are actual medical benefits found in leech saliva. And I'm being honest. It really is something worth looking into.
 

bykfixer

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Friedrich window units are US made. But they are the last still doing it.
The Friedrich are "comercial grade" so they are pricey.
Speed Queen still have US made appliances as well.
Both companies are still family owned.

Corona virus, was apparently not US made.
 
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