Coronavirus - II

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bykfixer

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Well there was an event in the dead center of the region where no one wants to wear a mask, and it turns out the idea is not as popular as some would have you believe:

To show a photo of an arena several hours before an event and imply it was not a sellout out crowd is so…… CNN like there uh Tokyo Rose……good job.
Yup there were some empty seats, up top but the photo was taken hours before the floor filled up.
Many stayed away due to the raucus crowds outside after watching all of the unrest in the nation every night. Some could not get in due to the raucus crowds outside. Many law abiding citizens were fearing the mobs. And yes a whole lot of people reserved seats with no intention of going but did not want others who did want to go to not have a chance.
And some chose to wear masks.
 
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Poppy

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I don't get it.

WHY would ANYONE choose to go out of his way (perhaps travel for hours) and risk contracting a potentially fatal disease, and possibly bring it home to one's family, and circle of friends, to what end? Be a cheerleader at a political rally?
 

bykfixer

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Same reason as folks gathering to walk down city streets locked arm and arm, or attend a nascar race or go to church, or any other event that causes folks to feel more normal again. Me personally? I wouldn't go to any event right now where I cannot double my 3' circle when around people I do not know. I'm still not doing dine in etc.

It's kinda strange though that according to a large segment of the press mobs pulling down statues does not breed a virus spread but a campaign rally seems to?

It's like that thing where conrona virus never made it to Wal Mart but plagued every barber shop and shoe store……

Happy Fathers Day everybody. Ah, ah, ah, 6' apart and all that.
 
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Poppy

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I suppose that going to a rally can be likened to going to a concert.

I don't know... the personal experience of "being there"?

Regarding mobs gathering in protests, there has been quite a bit of concern that such gatherings will cause increases in the transmission of the virus.

Although I have not been following the news as much as before, aren't big spectator events, such as nascar, professional sports, concerts, and such for the most part still limited to NO_spectators_at the event?

I think Churches and other houses of worship in NJ are limited to 20% capacity.
 

Poppy

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Same reason as folks gathering to walk down city streets locked arm and arm, or attend a nascar race or go to church, or any other event that causes folks to feel more normal again. Me personally? I wouldn't go to any event right now where I cannot double my 3' circle when around people I do not know. I'm still not doing dine in etc.

It's kinda strange though that according to a large segment of the press mobs pulling down statues does not breed a virus spread but a campaign rally seems to?

It's like that thing where conrona virus never made it to Wal Mart but plagued every barber shop and shoe store……

Happy Fathers Day everybody. Ah, ah, ah, 6' apart and all that.
Ah my friend, I am glad to see that you added, your comment above, while I was responding.

I agree. I am still keeping my distance.

As I mentioned earlier, I went to the Home Depot, and saw that the parking lot was packed. I just drove on through. I can come back at another time. Crowded areas for me? No way!

Regarding going to a rally? I can find better, safer means of entertainment.
 

bykfixer

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I watched it on my celphone, the parts I didn't sleep through. I just wanted to see folks cheering for America right now in these turmultuous times. I understand why some are stir crazy but I was still going to work everyday while many worked from home for months. Working outdoors makes it easier to avoid the virus versus indoors in recirculated air. Not that it hasn't spread in my industry, but that is likely from people packed into crew cab pickup trucks or vans carrying multiple workers around.

Edit: nascar races have "limited" numbers of fans alkowed. I suspect baseball won't happen on the pro level this year (at all). I'm not sure what allowble church capacity is in my state. But most in my community are doing parking lot or outdoor services. End edit.

Typical grocery trip saw probably 80% wearing masks in the store. If you want mac n cheese in my community this week you have to make your own. No box kind available, but plenty of Ramen noodles and rice. Plenty of toilet paper but no paper towels. The paper towels missing has been the case the last few times. Steak is still higher than before but the less expensive cuts were plentiful this week.

The irony at the check out counter was "the Enquirer" had stories of unrest and how much has been infiltrated with people bent on creating chaos while the main stream press (on both sides) says "oh those are just peaceful people there" as an unruly crowd of enthisiasts are throwing rocks at law enforcement in the back ground. The paper that gave us "ten ways to know your neighbors came here on a space craft" are the only ones telling both sides of the story. So we chatted with people as we did our shopping, staying 6' away and "you go ahead on past me" was the theme today whenever an unmasked person was encountered. At 9:30 this morning there were no panic buyers, no angry people or anything unusual outside of some choices people make with face coverings. Most had the light blue disposable kind but a few had designer stuff like a Nike swoop or a sports team. My favorite is always the gal whose mask has her grandparents photo on it.

Anything hand sanitizer was still out but plenty of cold and flu stuff was back. It was nice to see dishwasher powder in good supply again as well. Maybe because it's popular this time of year but there was a giant hole in the barbecue sauce section. That was a first.
 
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scout24

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We did "dine in" at an actual restaurant on Friday evening with another couple. I'll admit, I was a bit anxious. It was wierd after five months... Everyone was in good spirits, it was nice.
 

Monocrom

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I think you're half catching what I am saying or half responding.

Oh no, I get exactly what you're saying and I've given you full and honest responses. As I will again. Yes, you are correct. There are tons of individuals who recover or are non-transmittable after two full weeks. And as you said, "but not all." We agree. Thing is, if the virus survives for only two full weeks, what is accounting for that "not all" number? Even if we included doctor error, it still isn't going to account for all cases. The obvious answer is re-infection.

Now, getting back to a point I brought up previously, not all studies are done objectively. I think we can both agree that the CDC is not made up of morons. So, why did they release that official video on their channel in which they showed how to make an improvised mask out of a cotton bandana; and gave the DIY project their recommendation. Even though, anyone with knowledge of how viruses are transmitted would instantly realize that such a recommendation would provide very little protection to the general public. Why?....

To prevent mass panic. Not to present factual information to the general public. But to prevent panicking on a National level. Virus hit California and Florida hard, before coming up to NYC. By the time it got here, N95s were nowhere to be found. Walking through my neighborhood, I overheard people getting very upset and scared that they couldn't find masks at even obscene mark-ups to buy. So, if you're the CDC, you tell folks that a two layer cotton mask DIYed from a 100% cotton bandana will absolutely protect them from getting infected.

Which we both know isn't true. WHO knows it too. Which is why they released those revised guidelines. (Personally, I still say a 100% cotton mask is fine if it has a filter pocket with excellent filter material in it, such as a PM2.5 filter.) However, at the start of the pandemic in America, such advice from the CDC was absolutely needed to prevent rioting in the streets. What do you think is going to happen if a scientific study were to be carried out, objectively; and it discovered that re-infection is indeed what is accounting for that "not all" that you mentioned above?

What good would come of it? All that talk of herd immunity goes right out the window. People panic, they freak out. I'm not surprised one bit that that official study has concluded no confirmed cases of re-infection. Why would they confirm what others have already seen? To cause mass panic and chaos in the streets among the general public? Yeah, that would be brilliant.

That 16 year-old girl is not one isolated case. There have been countless others who were physically fit and healthy who caught the virus and died. It's not just going after the very elderly or the very young. That trend during this pandemic passed more than awhile ago. The physically fit with zero immune issues are dying too. It happened 100 years ago with the Spanish Flu. It's happening now.

In fairness, if you think that 1/3 of infected patients who develop lifelong kidney issues is BS, then perhaps you too are not as in the loop as you yourself perceive. Especially since I've already dealt with that denial by posting links in this very topic that show it's true.

Six family members in seven hospitals going by what they each perceive.... with their own two eyes. Safe to say they'd trust their anecdotal evidence over any sort of study presented to them. Can't blame them for doing that.

Definitely agree with you. There are indeed multiple reasons why a person can misunderstand what they see or come to the wrong conclusions about causes. So it's very important to remain truly open-minded to realistic probabilities instead of just dismissing them outright and pretending no such cases exist. Such as in a particular study, for example.

Again, when I see individuals being released at the full two week mark, clearly having recovered; only to then return numerous days later, infected.... I tend to go with the most likely cause. And the most likely one is re-infection. Again, we're not talking a couple of individuals. When something keeps happening over and over again, then a clear trend has presented itself. At the same time, I know that it's far from likely to ever be confirmed as re-infection by ANY medical association. But for a study or an organization to simply outright dismiss a realistic probability as "non-existent" is worrying. Shows a lack of open-mindedness on their part, unfortunately.
 

turbodog

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To show a photo of an arena several hours before an event and imply it was not a sellout out crowd is so…… CNN like there uh Tokyo Rose……good job.
Yup there were some empty seats, up top but the photo was taken hours before the floor filled up.
Many stayed away due to the raucus crowds outside after watching all of the unrest in the nation every night. Some could not get in due to the raucus crowds outside. Many law abiding citizens were fearing the mobs. And yes a whole lot of people reserved seats with no intention of going but did not want others who did want to go to not have a chance.
And some chose to wear masks.

I did some digging. Found the best source I could find, a report by Tulsa Fire Dept's fire marshall.

20k capacity

6,200 turnout

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/06/21/turnout-at-trumps-tulsa-rally-was-just-under-6200a-fraction-of-the-venues-19200-capacity/#108e4ce41fed

If someone buys a ticket and does not go, it doesn't prevent others from showing up. The 'ticket surge' screwed with the event's stats but did not prevent valid attendees from getting a seat.
 

Monocrom

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Same reason as folks gathering to walk down city streets locked arm and arm, or attend a nascar race or go to church, or any other event that causes folks to feel more normal again. Me personally? I wouldn't go to any event right now where I cannot double my 3' circle when around people I do not know. I'm still not doing dine in etc.

It's kinda strange though that according to a large segment of the press mobs pulling down statues does not breed a virus spread but a campaign rally seems to?

It's like that thing where conrona virus never made it to Wal Mart but plagued every barber shop and shoe store……

Happy Fathers Day everybody. Ah, ah, ah, 6' apart and all that.


Wal-Mart sells food. Sad to say, but in some parts of America, if a poverty-stricken family wants to eat decent meals; they go to Wal-Mart. Not because they want to, but because it's literally their only option.

New hair-cut or brand new shoes aren't necessities.
 

turbodog

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... There are tons of individuals who recover or are non-transmittable after two full weeks. And as you said, "but not all." We agree. Thing is, if the virus survives for only two full weeks, what is accounting for that "not all" number? Even if we included doctor error, it still isn't going to account for all cases. The obvious answer is re-infection.

...

I mean that some take longer to recover. Not a conspiracy. Just like some people get over a cold quickly, and other people take 2-3x as long.

If reinfection was happening as you say, then we would see similar results worldwide. This is not happening.

I'm getting results daily from a large testing lab that covers ~20 feeder hospitals and an untold number of clinics/etc. ZERO reinfection cases.

That said, if JAMA or other credible source confirmed reinfection, I would believe it.
 

Monocrom

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Anything hand sanitizer was still out but plenty of cold and flu stuff was back. It was nice to see dishwasher powder in good supply again as well. Maybe because it's popular this time of year but there was a giant hole in the barbecue sauce section. That was a first.

Home Depots in my neck of the woods has two different types of hand-sanitizer. A large jug of effective 80% alcohol based, and a slightly smaller container that looks suspiciously like organic/alternative hand-sanitizer. Best to completely steer clear of that one. The jug is surprisingly not too obscenely marked-up.
 

Monocrom

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I mean that some take longer to recover. Not a conspiracy. Just like some people get over a cold quickly, and other people take 2-3x as long.

If reinfection was happening as you say, then we would see similar results worldwide. This is not happening.

I'm getting results daily from a large testing lab that covers ~20 feeder hospitals and an untold number of clinics/etc. ZERO reinfection cases.

That said, if JAMA or other credible source confirmed reinfection, I would believe it.


I agree with you that some do take longer. It is indeed odd though when seemingly fully recovered individuals return. But I'm willing to be open-minded, and genuinely hope I'm wrong about re-infection. As that would mean a vaccine would be easier to create. Did not mean to imply that there are evil conspiracies out there. I meant it when I said I understood why the CDC released their DIY mask video. Mass panic in the streets would be just as bad, if not worse for public safety as the virus itself. Unfortunately, sometimes it's necessary to lie to the general public to keep them from panicking. I truly hate saying that. But it's true.
 

bykfixer

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I did some digging. Found the best source I could find, a report by Tulsa Fire Dept's fire marshall.

20k capacity

6,200 turnout

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrew...on-of-the-venues-19200-capacity/#108e4ce41fed

If someone buys a ticket and does not go, it doesn't prevent others from showing up. The 'ticket surge' screwed with the event's stats but did not prevent valid attendees from getting a seat.

I read the Forbes article too. Lots of stories by xyz, br549 or other largely slanted organizations I just skip over anymore, including the one that ryhmes with box. It's just hard to find truth anymore. Forbes is better than most in my view at just stating facts. A lot of my friends watch cnbc and fox business to guage their portolio so they can learn about up coming trends. Often they are pretty accurate as well. Raw facts are boring though so most scroll past those.

My point about Wal Mart or other box stores was not to denegrate people who get their supplies there. It was more to point out there are often large gathering there where a shoe store has a few people all spread apart. Early in the pandemic my local Wal Mart literally had about 1000 people in there panic buying. Same with the Target. Shoe Carnival had oh, about 8 people. My local WalMart right now likely has a few hundred people inside. Shoe Carnival? About 8 people. They get crowded at back to school time.
 

raggie33

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i got a dang dr appt tuesday i know they want to check my blood work but i dont wanna go but i skiped so many appts. i frigin hate going to docters evenb4 covid
 

turbodog

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I read the Forbes article too. Lots of stories by xyz, br549 or other largely slanted organizations I just skip over anymore, including the one that ryhmes with box. It's just hard to find truth anymore. Forbes is better than most in my view at just stating facts. A lot of my friends watch cnbc and fox business to guage their portolio so they can learn about up coming trends. Often they are pretty accurate as well. Raw facts are boring though so most scroll past those.

My point about Wal Mart or other box stores was not to denegrate people who get their supplies there. It was more to point out there are often large gathering there where a shoe store has a few people all spread apart. Early in the pandemic my local Wal Mart literally had about 1000 people in there panic buying. Same with the Target. Shoe Carnival had oh, about 8 people. My local WalMart right now likely has a few hundred people inside. Shoe Carnival? About 8 people. They get crowded at back to school time.

You have to sort of get an aggregate view. I will check cnn and fox for the same story to sort of get a left/right view. At the end of the day I will jump to routers and apnews for facts. Sometimes I will hit bloomberg off and on.

With so many family in healthcare I have access to some things that others don't. We really could use some random testing across the US, nasal and blood, to give an idea of how far along we are toward herd immunity. Given the steady increase in numbers we clearly are not there yet. I've got kids in school/college that I am trying to make fall plans for.

I've been tracking stats since day1. After some initial adjustments, my projected cases (at least in my state) are within ~200 of actual for the past 29 days w/o having to tweak my projection values. It's scary how closely it's tracking to actual, or scary how close actual is tracking projected.

Point is... zero evidence it's dropping off. All evidence it's still chugging along. The curious thing is that the numbers have not spiked as portions of the state reopened. So why not? And where are the 'base' of new infections coming from then?
 
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PhotonWrangler

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Home Depots in my neck of the woods has two different types of hand-sanitizer. A large jug of effective 80% alcohol based, and a slightly smaller container that looks suspiciously like organic/alternative hand-sanitizer. Best to completely steer clear of that one. The jug is surprisingly not too obscenely marked-up.

It's getting a little easier to find hand sanitizers and alcohol in my neck of the woods. I ran across that jug of 80% alcohol sanitizer also, as well as bottles of off-brand sanitizer gel from China. I also stumbled across gallon jugs of alcohol at one of the smaller hardware chains. People are still hoarding the smaller drugstore bottles of alcohol though.

I'm also seeing lots more toilet paper back in the stores.
 

bykfixer

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At one point early in the deal TD, tests were nowhere near as available. I kept watch on numbers in percentage in my state since we were still in flu season. When it peaked the daily number had not really changed that much but the percent tested had. Post flu season the flu like symptoms in people were not going away.
Now that testing has greatly increased and allergy season has been extended the percentage of folks being tested that show positive is declining even though the number of "daily positives" has not dropped much.

Most knew early on that flattening the curve meant prolonging the time it took to wane the spread. I suppose some thought (or think) that reopening means the thing is done spreading.
 
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turbodog

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At one point early in the deal TD, tests were nowhere near as available. I kept watch on numbers in percentage in my state since we were still in flu season. When it peaked the daily number had not really changed that much but the percent tested had. Post flu season the flu like symptoms in people were not going away.
Now that testing has greatly increased and allergy season has been extended the percentage of folks being tested that show positive is declining even though the number of "daily positives" has not dropped much.

Most knew early on that flattening the curve meant prolonging the time it took to wane the spread. I suppose some thought (or think) that reopening means the thing is done spreading.


Agreed. Worth mentioning that even if gov't didn't shutdown things people would have pretty much stopped going to certain things anyway. I know I'm not going to movies, conventions, indoor sports, indoor ANYTHING if at all possible for a long time.
 
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