1" body/head 18650/123A do-everything light

[Blades]

Hi Blades,

Thanks for your reply, another close one -- but not quite there -- from four sevens. It won't run 18650, which puts it out of the running right away. Otherwise, it's the xml2 that doesn't quite make it. A couple of years ago, those were competitive, but no reason to settle for 13k-ish cd today. Although I imagine the lights mentioned above from Olight, Fenix, and 4sevens (and Malkoff?) will get an xpl hi eventually. It's a race between whether they'll update their lights first, or if Nitecore, Klarus, or Eageltac will correct what seem like design deficiencies first...

It won't run a 18650, or its not recommended? I like my Smart Quark. The ability to set it from tactical, pro, to infinite is nice. I can add or subtract settings using the app. The LED race is frustrating. Each year there is one slightly better and I want it!! I really liked my MecArmy PT16 with three leds, but it has one side buton. The MecArmy SPX18's head is too big and it has a new fancy tailswitch. Not sure it will take 2 123a's.

From what I've seen, XPL HI lumens don't seem to be much different than those old XML2s. I have an old Thrunite TN12 (I think it is), a 1" 18650 XML2 light that put out 1000 lumens, a few years ago, which also seems to be in the general range of the XPL HI 1" 18650 lights, 800-1000 lumens. Besides, a 10% increase (or decrease, for that matter) in lumens is not really noticeable, so any marginal difference doesn't seem important to me.

What I"m after here is the increase in candlepower. That old TN12 was somewhere around 10kcd if I remember right. Meanwhile, Nitecore's P12GT is hitting 25kcd -- so, roughly double the candlepower. That's what the XPL HI brings to the table versus those older LEDs, and that I don't want to sacrifice. Even the noticeably smaller Eageltac DX30LC2 is getting 20kcd -- incredibly noticeable difference in beam intensity and throw, versus these XML2 lights, and that's what I"m not willing to give up.

What about a modder to swap in the new LED? I keep hearing about dedomed LED's -- not 100% sure what the benefit is, but I think more throw? Still reading.

Quick update: I emailed Eagletac to lay out my case for a rear switch that is suitable for a defensive use-case, they emailed me back promptly, promising to talk to their switch manufacturer to see what can be done. Will keep you all updated.

I've also emailed Klarus a month ago, pointing out that the XT2C XPL-HI is only reaching the candela levels that all other manufacturers can get with an XML2 in this size range. They told me that have good things coming.

I appreciate the response from customer service from both companies, and I'm hoping one or the other nails it. I haven't contacted Nitecore... I have a feeling that the switch delay is intrinsic to the design or engineering, and a bigger matter to fix than merely redesigning a reflector or switch

I've also not contacted Fenix or Olight... I figure XPL-HI offerings are just a matter of time

Going to go peruse Vinh's offerings...

Nice of them to answer so quickly.

I'll whip up a master list of what we have so far, but wanted to point out the ThruNite TN12 2016 ... It seems to hit all the requirements, except it's still using an XPL so limited to 13kcd. They update to a HI, with proper focusing, and they hit it

Also, for me this again shines a light on what an atrocious job Klarus did with their XPL HI XT2C... their competitors easily get 20kcd-ish (and sometimes quite a bit more than that) with an XPL HI with a light this size. Thrunite is getting essentially the same candela with a regular domed XPL as Klarus gets with a HI...

Waiting on master list...

I myself would have serious doubts about being able to manipulate a clicky switch under the high stress of a defensive situations. That's why LE and such tend to go with a simple tactical press for on non-clicky switch like the Z41. If you think you are gonna be able to only slightly depress a clicky for momentary when someone is trying to hurt or kill you, you are fooling yourself .

also clicky switches can and do fail. for a "tactical " light you really want a momentary on press/twist for constant on setup

could you really rely on a clicky switch that is used for lets say 6-10 years as an EDC then after 10 years and a few thousand clicks you need the light tactically 100% reliable .

I would rather give up some output and go with a Malkoff or Elzetta . or maybe an HDS light programmed to as close as you can to what you want?

if having the light be tactically 100% reliable is one of three most important factors then you will need to either compromise or rethink what you are looking for. I wouldn't truat anything short of a SF/Malkoff/elzetta switch

The reason I bought the Klarus XT2C was because of the switch. One for high, one for strobe. Easy to manulipate. I think TerraLUX has the same set-up(same manufacture?). I have my Smart Quark set up for high from tailswitch or side switch. Double tap either switch for strobe. Hold the side switch and starts in low and works its way to high.

Have you looked at the Armytek Partner C2 Pro v3 XHP35? I don't think it has enough CID: https://www.armytek.com/products/fl...tek-partner-c2-pro-v3-xhp35-white-silver.html

 

[Blades]

A quick update on Klarus: I picked up the new XT1C, and was surprised to find that the main switch no longer operates as a momentary -- it's clicky-only, to high. Which perhaps means the horribly focused XPL HI isn't the only bizarre design decision Klarus is making these days. Wonder if this is also the case with the newest XT2C, in which case, it gets crossed off the list

I have the Klarus XT2C with the XP-L HI V3 so I assume it is the newest one. The main switch is momentary push but can be pushed completely down and clicked on.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Ah, so just the XT1C they did that to, thanks

 

[Joe Talmadge]

What about a modder to swap in the new LED? I keep hearing about dedomed LED's -- not 100% sure what the benefit is, but I think more throw? Still reading.

That's definitely an option. You can think of the XPL HI as "factory de-domed", so I'd just need a modder to swap it in. The thing I don't know is, whether it will need a new reflector. If the dedomed LED has a different focal point as the regular, it'll need a reflector that matches. I don't know the answer there.

Still, I've decided to hold off on contacting a modder. I'm fairly convinced one of those manufacturers with xpl hi lights will fix their flaws, OR one of the other companies like Thrunite or Fenix will update their lights with XPL HI. Either way, there won't be a need to go with a modder, I don't think

 

[Blades]

That's definitely an option. You can think of the XPL HI as "factory de-domed", so I'd just need a modder to swap it in. The thing I don't know is, whether it will need a new reflector. If the dedomed LED has a different focal point as the regular, it'll need a reflector that matches. I don't know the answer there.

Still, I've decided to hold off on contacting a modder. I'm fairly convinced one of those manufacturers with xpl hi lights will fix their flaws, OR one of the other companies like Thrunite or Fenix will update their lights with XPL HI. Either way, there won't be a need to go with a modder, I don't think

But the WAIT! ARGH!!!

 

[BugoutBoys]

Nitecore p12
nufd said

 

[Ryp]

Nitecore p12
nufd said

This, 'cept GT.

 

[lampeDépêche]

Nitecore p12
nufd said

Except for the part in the OP where JT already considered this light.
And rejected it.

"You'd think this would be easy but I'm actually a bit stuck. Here's some options and why they don't hold up:
- Nitecore P12GT: Switch delay is beyond unacceptable"

 

[BugoutBoys]

Except for the part in the OP where JT already considered this light.
And rejected it.

"You'd think this would be easy but I'm actually a bit stuck. Here's some options and why they don't hold up:
- Nitecore P12GT: Switch delay is beyond unacceptable"

the p12 doesn't though =)))

 

[Joe Talmadge]

True! P12, unfortunately, doesn't meet the performance specs (though was leading edge for its time). If I were willing to settle for 13kcd, I could pick up a 2016 XT2C, which has IMO an even better UI (although Nitecore's UI is really good, no complaints). XPL HI, without a badly designed/engineered switch, or badly designed reflector; I'm not asking for much

 

[staticx57]

Let's take a step back here. You started this thread looking for a do everything light. You then veered off into how far can this light throw. These are contradictory, the tighter the beam profile the less of a general purpose light it becomes. If the P12 is 90% the light you want where everything else is 80%, either redefine your criteria back to a do everything light where a broader beam is more useful or switch to a more throwy style light and change the size requirements because head size=throw and you can get MUCH higher throw numbers with a slightly bigger head.

Perhaps the light you really want is the MH25GT

 

[zs&tas]

Id have to give a shout out to the olight m20 javelot. . . . . . .

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Static -- one important correction, I didn't "veer off" into throw: the second sentence of my initial post, I stated what "do-everything" means to me: "For me, do-everything = EDC, emergency, defensive use". And the very next section, I elaborated on details, including minimum performance levels based on performance that's easily reachable using modern 2016 technology and techniques. All I'm asking for, is a do-everything light that takes advantage of 2016 technology and provides 2016 performance. Otherwise, I have a TN12 from 2013 (I think) that matches 100% the performance of the P12 (1000 lumens, 13kcd), and all the rest of these other XML2 lights, so no reason to ask about or purchase a new light if it's not an upgrade. If I relax the candlepower performance, then I already have my TN12, mission accomplished! There's no "veering off", throw was a realistic, achievable, non-negotiable requirement from the beginning. I don't want to be painted as randomly changing the requirements just to argue -- they were always there.

I also would claim that none of my requests are particularly difficult to achieve. In fact, I'd claim Nitecore exactly tried to design a light to these specs, when they designed the P12GT. There's no way you'll convince me that Nitecore designed a killer light in the P12GT, but with a switch that more than 50% of people say has a noticeable and distracting delay. It was a design or engineering mistake, and unfortunately they didn't catch it in QA; if Nitecore had gotten things right, I'd never have made this post, I'd just be telling you how the P12GT has changed my life

Perhaps the light you really want is the MH25GT

I know myself well enough to know how big a light I'm willing to carry, and I know for sure I don't want the Mh25GT -- not to say it's not a great light, but the "easily carryable, all the time, for me" requirement isn't relaxable either, nor should it need to be. I don't think it will be very long before we eventually have plenty of lights that meet the specs I laid out, I just wanted to see if there are any now that I didn't know about, or any other interesting solutions (like vinh, mentioned above). There's no reason I have to settle ...my specs can be easily met in 2016, but now I realize I"ll have to wait for the first light that meets them, there's probably nothing out there quite yet. I'd bet money that when the PD35TAC or Olight Striker get an XPL HI, or Nitecore comes out with a P12GTv2 with no switch delay (if that's possible), or Eagletac comes back to me with a switch that works for me, that will be that. I'll bet you a nickel right now -- I'll have the light I actually want, without settling, within 6 months.

 

[staticx57]

All I am trying to say is if you want more candlepower with the same lumens you have to sacrifice somewhere. What you will get between the p12 and the p12gt with the same lumens is less spill and more throw if that is what you are looking for thats fine. But I wanted to point out you will be sacrificing an every day type of beam profile in the quest for throw.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Oh! Yes of course, if that's what you're trying to say I completely mis-read you. Yes, that's definitely a tradeoff, and one I'm willing to make... I don't have any requirements around spill, I'll just deal, even though greater spill can be useful for everyday tasks. The requirements are around total lumens and throw. Keeping in mind, of course, that even with an XPL HI, this is a 1" light -- it's not exactly a laser beam regardless. But yes, I've made a tradeoff here in the requirements.

 

[Blades]

I also would claim that none of my requests are particularly difficult to achieve. In fact, I'd claim Nitecore exactly tried to design a light to these specs, when they designed the P12GT. There's no way you'll convince me that Nitecore designed a killer light in the P12GT, but with a switch that more than 50% of people say has a noticeable and distracting delay. It was a design or engineering mistake, and unfortunately they didn't catch it in QA; if Nitecore had gotten things right, I'd never have made this post, I'd just be telling you how the P12GT has changed my life

I looked at the P12GT but didn't want the side switch. Is it the tailswitch that is delayed?

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Yes, tailswitch

 

[Blades]

Yes, tailswitch

I'll have to play with one next year at Blade Show. Going Gear always brings their flashlight display with a lot of lights.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

If you have the luxury of handling a bunch of them, there are many people who report those delays, but some who don't... if you can test before you buy, maybe you'll hit the jackpot

 

[staticx57]

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?424196-WTS-Nitecore-P12GT-Like-New

Guy selling a p12gt, maybe he can test his copy for you and you can get a deal at the same time