600 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light - INFANT AN/ASQ-132

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

Just the IR so I'm on the hunt for some .108" Borofloat, 6", round. I've tried a couple of times with Chris at Flashlightlens.com, a CPF member, but have got no response. Know of any sources? Found some sheet for $11.00 per square foot in 11 sq. ft sheets but that doesn't do me much good. The N2 is a good idea but not sure the seals are all that great such that it wouldn't leak out over a few months time.

 

[FRITZHID]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

well, as far as borofloat, no i don't, sorry.
the N2 back filling shoulden't be that hard or expensive and could be re-filled every so often... could even add an attachment set of valves that would allow easy purge/fill. but with the larger atom size, nitrogen shoulden't leak as bad eather, thats one of the main reasons they've been puting it in tires for some time now. i honestly believe this would save you some headaches on a few fronts.
i'll keep my eyes open for some borofloat sources for ya. do you care if it's AR or not?

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

AR if it would hold up, but not a big deal either way.

 

[FRITZHID]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

okies, will see what i can find (pulls out glass cutter and an old pyrex pie plate) hehehe:devil:

 

[get-lit]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

I'm finding that Borofloat blocks 92% of the Infrared spectrum, and Infrared is needed for night vision applications.

What are the advantages of Borofloat glass over Borosilicate, Pyrex, and tempered etc?

BTW, Surefire uses Pyrex and the Maxbeam uses tempered.

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

I'm not planning on using any NV equipment with this light. I don't own any and so far, have not had an interest in having any. I don't know the differences and was just assuming the Borofloat would be the most heat resistant.

 

[ma_sha1]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

I'm finding that Borofloat blocks 92% of the Infrared spectrum, and Infrared is needed for night vision applications.
What are the advantages of Borofloat glass over Borosilicate, Pyrex, and tempered etc?

BTW, Surefire uses Pyrex and the Maxbeam uses tempered.

Borofloat, Borosilicate and Pyrex are the same thing.
Borofloat and Pyrex are just different brands of borosilicate glass made by Schott vs. Corning respectively. It can withstand high heat & is used often in making lab glasswares where heating is involved, also kitchen wares. In our case, front lens, HID lamp outer envelopes etc.

Tempered glass is heat strengthened glass for safety, they are less likely to break. when they do break, they don't leave behind sharp pieces.

All silica based glasses (as well as polycarbonate) transmit Near IR: (800nm to 2500nm),
longer IR wave length will need specialty glass

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

Ma, I forgot to post the 100 Watt ballast output Voltage to lamp. Not sure what thread we discussed it in but... 103.56. Amp = .858 for 88.8 Watts.

 

[FRITZHID]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

http://www.newportglass.com/

 

[ma_sha1]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

Ma, I forgot to post the 100 Watt ballast output Voltage to lamp. Not sure what thread we discussed it in but... 103.56. Amp = .858 for 88.8 Watts.

Thanks Bob,

Looks like you actually measured the AC volt at the bulb? 103.56V? That's exactly the info. I am looking for. Thanks!

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

Well I'm really excited and really bummed again. The manuals arrived and they have all of the info needed to answer all the questions. First, the exciting part. It's a 600 Watt Short Arc, not 500 Watts. The lamp runs at 33 Amps @ 18V. Now the not so exciting part. While I'm not an electrician nor an electronics engineer, I can read block diagrams and wiring schematics fairly well. What I don't know is how and why the parts work nor would I be able to build something remotely complex like a ballast. The text-based manual in great detail tells exactly what happens when the operator turns on the switch. "+28v flows to part A which does this, this and this, then it goes to part be which compares signals from X and Y and then does this............and finally the 8KV is stepped up to 30KV to ignite the 600 Watt lamp". The Block diagram does not show all the individual parts but the main components. The wiring schematic shows detail down to the chip-based electronic switches contained within the components, shows resistor and capacitor values, ect. So I can identify the 8 pin connector and where each wire goes. What is glaringly apparent and disappointing is that I have Searchlight Assembly 8688 (which I already know) and that Searchlight Assembly 8687, which I do not have, contains many of the components for what I would call primary ignition and the circuits to "run" the light once ignited. Voltage regulators, boost circuits, pulse generator, lock out, etc. All or practically all of the parts on my light are for final ignition only. (The big turquoise box is, in fact, a spark gap.) The two "Power Transistors" in my pic are called the "ignitor". Not sure where I go from here except to try to find an 8687 which was located within the cockpit of the Huey. Pretty slim chance, I think.


For the experts like Fritz, a question. Maybe another avenue is to find a bench supply with built-in ignitor. I have a 300 Watt bench supply designed to run Cermax/Lutel and G.E. short arcs like in the Megaray. I have a 500 Watt with ignitor coming. It has a current output range, ignition Voltage spec and running lamp voltage spec that meets the specs cited in the manual for the 600 Watt light. I don't know enough to know whether meeting those specs is enough to make it compatible or not? There's also a spec on the PS that gives the ignition pulse duration but I don't see that in the 600 Watt light manuals. Another thing I don't understand is that these power supplies are constant current (adjustable via a small knob) and somehow the Voltage magically is at the spec of the bulb - it's automatically determined. How does that work?

 

[FRITZHID]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

well Bob, i'm sorry to hear that the main power supply is lacking, that woulda been the easiest way to work with this light, however, i do have some good news (IF you just want to get the light up and running and care not about keeping it stock) and that is the coming 500w PS will run this lamp, you will probably have to bypass most if not all the internal electronics tho.
the Ignition Pulse Duration setting is just that, the # of pulses per second/min in order to excite enough of the xenon gas to cause a plasma to form and stay steady at 18V with 33A running through it. Normally the Spark Gap would control this setting, it does just what it says, a gap that as power increases with in a cap, will jump across the gap terminals (set at a certen distance) and then through the bulb, igniting it. usually make a clicking sound. The faster the setting, the lower the power of that charge, so, you'll want to start at the highest setting and then slow it down until the lamp fires, and keep it at that setting, and slower and the higher strike current/voltage could start to wear on the bulbs electrodes.
the voltage @ bulb will be automatically sensed by the PS by the current draw. kind of like an old iron core welder, as you very the CC output, voltage will very to match based on resistance (the xenon gas). the PS is basically an amplifier, if you run a 1000w amp @ 8 ohms you can get 2000w @ 4 ohms, and 4000w at 2 ohms... ect... tho the amp may not like being run that low of resistance. IDK the specs of the PS your getting, but it shouldn't have any issues with running that bulb, tho it may not run it at full power.
if you would like, i can take a look at any of the schematics that you are having an issue with and help you the best i can.
i'm confident that you'll get this photon cannon running in no time!

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

I was certainly looking forward to this light being a complete working light all contained inside the can but it is not to be. When I said the PS has all the same specs, I actually need to confirm that when it arrives with it's paperwork. I based what I said on the spec of the Cermax 500 Watt bulb that this PS is supposed to be made for. (It's an older ILC brand, not a Cermax brand) Here's the Cermax bulb spec sheet.

http://www.alkansan.com/pdf/Perkin-Elmer-Endoskopi-Ampul-Katalogu.pdf

Look at the Elliptical and then further down the page, the Parabolic 500 Watt models. The Elliptical current range that the bulb accepts is up to 35 Amps and the Parabolic is up to 32. So I am just assuming that this supply is capable of 35 Amps. Example: On the 300 Watt Cermax bulb specs, the top of the range current is 23 Amps for the Elliptical. The Cermax 300 Watt PS I have can be set up to 24 so there is some headroom. I'm hoping this is the same with the ILC 500 Watt unit.

Another ?. IF the cermax 500 Watt bulb requirement is for 32 Amps and 15.5 Volts (496 Watts) then if I set the PS for 33 Amps (my light bulb spec) will this Cermax-geared supply only supply the same 15.5 Volts that it does to the Cermax lamp or does it somehow know it's driving a higher Wattage lamp and adjust the Voltage upward (to 18) to put out the higher Wattage? Or is this what you meant when you said I might end up under-driving the bulb? (for reference the max voltage range of the 500 Cermax bulb is 16.5 so the ILC PS may only provide up to 16.5, not the 18V my lamp wants to see)

 

[FRITZHID]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

thats what i meant when i said you may end up under-driving the bulb.... that bulb is 600w and the PS is made for 500w, so it may not run it at full potential.
but it should still run it without any issues, other then less output then it's capable of. would be like running the MB in Med mode rather then High.
but then again, it MAY compensate for the difference, but i find that unlikely.
as far as keeping it a one can unit, that Still may be a possibility, you'd have to look at the PS internals and see if you can cram it in the can :devil:

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

Based on the Cermax 300 Watt PS internals, no way will even half of it fit, not counting the ignitor module.

More reading shows they set the focus for their use at 6.5 degrees. A 6.5' circle at 30' distance. So I guess about 6" at about 2'. (5" reflector) I wonder how much tighter it will go, if any.

If the PS is capable of more Amps, would there be significant bulb wear as a result of gaining back some of the Watts with an extra Amp or two?

 

[FRITZHID]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

there shouldn't be any more wear, with amps or volts, since its DC... if it were AC i'd say yes, there could be more wear.
the most significant wear i believe will be on start up, thats why i said start at faster cycle rate at lower power then the slower, higher power start up. the slower will be more like a strobe then a strike charge (i would think anyway) and with that, harder on the bulb.

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

Probably should have asked it differently. Will driving it with more Amps create any higher pressures, physical loads such that the bulb could explode - even though it would still be a theoretical 600 watts?

 

[FRITZHID]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

hhmm... THAT is a good question... and with little exp in the XSA area, i'd have to honestly say, IDK. maybe Ra or Ma Sha would know the answer to that question.
if i had to guess, i'd say probably not, BUT with these one shouldn't guess.
in truth, i find it unlikely that the PS will drive the bulb in that manner, the PS is designed to run a bulb at Xv @ Xa, and be regulated as such. if they diden't as a bulb ages or factory defects, gaseous mix differences would cause allot more failures, i would think. from what i've read, these are fairly stable power systems and shouldn't/wouldn't over run a bulb eather way. an increase in V or A eather way at 500w is Less then the bulbs designed capacity, if it were a 600w supply but only capable of 15v, then i'd worry more since that would be a significantly higher amperage.

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

OK, thanks for all the info and I'll figure out a way to get you copies of the docs.

 

[BVH]

Re: 500 Watt Short Arc M-134 Cannon Light

This just popped into my brain. The Cermax PS knows its a 300 Watt PS and it knows the Amps it's going to provide based on the user setting entered prior to ignition. So isn't it just going to provide the Volts needed to make 300 Watts? (after warm up, of course) I did notice on the display which has a Watt meter built in, that it provides about 292 Watts on start up and within about 5 minutes it's up to about 302.

So based on this, I could program more Amps on the 500 Supply but it might just crank down the Voltage to maintain the 500 Watts so I may be stuck with 500 Watts.