75 watts of light and only uses 7.8 watts

[hojobones]

i was think of picking a few of the 3000K up for my living room thats using par30 dimmable cfls. They flicker a lot when I try to dim them, and the above post has me having second thoughts...how many are you running on a single dimmer?

I wonder how these would compare?

http://www.polar-ray.com/R30-LED-Light-Bulb--60W-Equivalent_p_194.html

I have and love the cree lr6's but they are too big for the cans.

 

[gsegelk]

I purchased several of the Cree LR6's and can't imagine these being any better...especially given that these are more expensive. I'm going to research them a little and might buy one just to give my thoughts and a side-by-side comparison to the LR6.

Am I seeing correctly that they don't make a 2700K color temp version? I would prefer a 2700K version b/c a) I like the color temp better for in home casual use and b) I have regular incan lights that I don't plan to get rid of anytime soon.

I'm sure it's not but this comes off as a marketing job. It was stated that they are fully dimmable and then someone says that they flicker really bad when dimmed. Based on the limited feedback so far, I wouldn't say "it's sure got Cree beat all to hell":thinking:

Do you have any non-marketing (read: real world) pics of these lights compared to, say, the LR6? Would love to see some of your pics b/c I'm always looking for newer better technology. So far I'm not convinced.

 

[Steve-at-Springboard]

Even the most efficient LEDs produce heat with about 85% of the supplied energy, at least at realistic currents. So, about 3x as efficient as an incandescent. So, same brightness with one tenth the power...no way. The good news is that we're in the range of 100 to 130 lumens per watt and the theoretical maximum is 683 lumens per watt. So, if we could make all the heat into lumens we could have LEDs that are 5 times as bright with the same power input. Might take a while. How many years has it taken to get where we are??

 

[easytim]

Hey Purduephotog and gsegelk,

Heres a video that compares the dimming of the Array LED with others http://www.arraylighting.com/videos/CFL_Cree_Comp.html

From what I understand the Array bulbs will not dim correctly if you use the wrong type of dimmer. I do not have a list of the correct type of dimmer that should be used.

If you use a SCR gated type of dimmer, The LED will turn on and off quicky, and the LED sees this off and on because it's quick, but the incandescent will not show the on and off because it take time for the incandescent to go completely off, so it all depends on the type of dimmer used.

You need to e-mail the company and ask them what type of dimmer should be used

Have a look at the video, it's a clean operation, a smooth on and a smooth off


Also Purduephotog, it says on their web site about dimming.

¹ Some dimming systems require a minimum load to operate properly. Array lamps are energy efficient, low power devices. With only a few lamps in a circuit, they may not meet the minimum load required for an existing dimming system. As a result the LED lamps may glow or may not dim properly. Please consult the dimming system manufacturer for minimum load requirements or contact Array Lighting to help you determine the proper dimming system to operate the LED lamps.

 

[easytim]

There is a 2700k color version here, coming soon. Its uses 18 watts and is the approximate equivalence to a 90 watt incandescent

http://www.arraylighting.com/products/array_par38.html

I don't see any flicker here http://www.arraylighting.com/videos/CFL_Cree_Comp.html

I purchased several of the Cree LR6's and can't imagine these being any better...especially given that these are more expensive. I'm going to research them a little and might buy one just to give my thoughts and a side-by-side comparison to the LR6.

Am I seeing correctly that they don't make a 2700K color temp version? I would prefer a 2700K version b/c a) I like the color temp better for in home casual use and b) I have regular incan lights that I don't plan to get rid of anytime soon.

I'm sure it's not but this comes off as a marketing job. It was stated that they are fully dimmable and then someone says that they flicker really bad when dimmed. Based on the limited feedback so far, I wouldn't say "it's sure got Cree beat all to hell":thinking:

Do you have any non-marketing (read: real world) pics of these lights compared to, say, the LR6? Would love to see some of your pics b/c I'm always looking for newer better technology. So far I'm not convinced.

 

[blasterman]

The good news is that we're in the range of 100 to 130 lumens per watt

...If you happen to like low CRI cool-white, which I don't.
For reference, none of these bulbs have the same efficiency as plug-in CFL, and are orders of magnitude more expensive. I wonder how much cheaper the bulb would be if it didn't have to work with dimmer circuits.

 

[alpg88]

[

 

[easytim]

[

http://www.arraylighting.com/products/array_par38.html

Output (Lumens)
*+/- 5%

Cool White: 925
Natural White: 925
Warm White: 900
Inc. Warm White: 825

How about 90 watts and only uses 18 watts?

I'm not a big Cree fan, can someone tell me if Cree has anything close to this?

I also hear today they teamed up with Phillips to share each others technology, this in turn should make Cree much brighter, pun intended


.

 

[blasterman]

I'm not a big Cree fan, can someone tell me if Cree has anything close to this?

Cree doesn't make retrofit lightbulbs as far as I know.

Cree makes two popular dedicated fixtures, with the LR-24 being lightyears superior to the bulbs we are talking about. Then again it's a dedicated fixture and not a retrofit bulb.

There are lots of specialized Cree based PAR 38's on the market - you just have to look. The fact is, when it comes to warm-white, and to some extent neutral white, Cree's lead tends to shrink because there's a lot of competing technology. When it comes to cool-white though a Cree based PAR 38 is in a class by itself and I've seen some that could probably hit 2,000 lumens.

 

[purduephotog]

Hey Purduephotog and gsegelk,

Heres a video that compares the dimming of the Array LED with others http://www.arraylighting.com/videos/CFL_Cree_Comp.html

From what I understand the Array bulbs will not dim correctly if you use the wrong type of dimmer. I do not have a list of the correct type of dimmer that should be used.

If you use a SCR gated type of dimmer, The LED will turn on and off quicky, and the LED sees this off and on because it's quick, but the incandescent will not show the on and off because it take time for the incandescent to go completely off, so it all depends on the type of dimmer used.

You need to e-mail the company and ask them what type of dimmer should be used

Have a look at the video, it's a clean operation, a smooth on and a smooth off


Also Purduephotog, it says on their web site about dimming.

¹ Some dimming systems require a minimum load to operate properly. Array lamps are energy efficient, low power devices. With only a few lamps in a circuit, they may not meet the minimum load required for an existing dimming system. As a result the LED lamps may glow or may not dim properly. Please consult the dimming system manufacturer for minimum load requirements or contact Array Lighting to help you determine the proper dimming system to operate the LED lamps.

I contacted array several times to get a correct dimmer specification. I asked. When they answered, they threw back my suggestion as their answer- never provided tested / certified dimmer models. They also stated to put an incandescent bulb on the circuit to help increase the load.

Well... any product that advertises dimming yet flickers at <60hz, isn't designed to be dimmed.

I mean, when the units are full on they're still not very bright at all. Compared to the cree units that were advertised at 1000 lumens, these things fall WAY short.

I wouldn't buy them for use in my house. I will buy the Crees. Array's engineering support is non-existent- but I can pick up the phone and call into Cree and have an answer in a day or two.

In my work that sort of relationship is important. Does it make for a better product? Nope. But it sure goes a long way to assure us that anything we run into we can get answers with.

It is a hard call- the facilities we visit need 6500K lighting and these fit the bill- but unless I can get the fixtures designed properly and the proper distance, they don't work out- because the dimming and flickering is totally unacceptable.

 

[purduephotog]

There is a 2700k color version here, coming soon. Its uses 18 watts and is the approximate equivalence to a 90 watt incandescent

http://www.arraylighting.com/products/array_par38.html

I don't see any flicker here http://www.arraylighting.com/videos/CFL_Cree_Comp.html

Actually- you can. If you watch the LEDs in the array bulb closely you'll see them turn on and off. The refresh of the camera is masking the dimming flickering.

To be fair I'll see if I can't get a light bulb and drop it into our dimming racks in the lab and see if the dimming improves- bbl. Maybe I can even get a video...

 

[Epimetheus]

Wow... someone's finally invented a perpetual motion machine!

Or its equivalent: The Magic Power Multiplier

This LED bulb gives 75 watts of light and only uses 7.8 watts of power.

You simply pump in 7.8W and this device spits out 75W.

Who needs a fuel source any more? This baby will be able to provide its own power to run itself, plus charge a couple of dozen cells at the same time. I would however appreciate somebody with a lot more electrical engineering experience than the modicum I possess explaining to me the difference between "light watts" and "power watts".

 

[easytim]

I will keep this in mind purduephotog, I will do some testing on a PAR 30 I have with different dimmers, I really do want to know if is the case, I believe you, Thanks for your input

I contacted array several times to get a correct dimmer specification. I asked. When they answered, they threw back my suggestion as their answer- never provided tested / certified dimmer models. They also stated to put an incandescent bulb on the circuit to help increase the load.

Well... any product that advertises dimming yet flickers at <60hz, isn't designed to be dimmed.

I mean, when the units are full on they're still not very bright at all. Compared to the cree units that were advertised at 1000 lumens, these things fall WAY short.

I wouldn't buy them for use in my house. I will buy the Crees. Array's engineering support is non-existent- but I can pick up the phone and call into Cree and have an answer in a day or two.

In my work that sort of relationship is important. Does it make for a better product? Nope. But it sure goes a long way to assure us that anything we run into we can get answers with.

It is a hard call- the facilities we visit need 6500K lighting and these fit the bill- but unless I can get the fixtures designed properly and the proper distance, they don't work out- because the dimming and flickering is totally unacceptable.

 

[easytim]

Very cool post, keep up the good work, you have been very helpful indeed

Wow... someone's finally invented a perpetual motion machine!

Or its equivalent: The Magic Power Multiplier



You simply pump in 7.8W and this device spits out 75W.

Who needs a fuel source any more? This baby will be able to provide its own power to run itself, plus charge a couple of dozen cells at the same time. I would however appreciate somebody with a lot more electrical engineering experience than the modicum I possess explaining to me the difference between "light watts" and "power watts".

 

[Ken_McE]

There is a 2700k color version here, coming soon. Its uses 18 watts and is the approximate equivalence to a 90 watt

You're saying that it produces 1,450 lumens from 18 watts? 80.5 lumens/watt?

 

[easytim]

You're saying that it produces 1,450 lumens from 18 watts? 80.5 lumens/watt?

It is stated here 925 lumens and uses 18 watts http://www.arraylighting.com/products/array_par38.html


It looks like this is the right spec. 51.3 lumens/per watt


51.3 lumens per watt



.

 

[ddawg16]

Bleeding edge technology.....

In the real world, 'good' LED's are maybe about 10% more effecient than a CFL.....and while the LED life might be 100k hours...the support electronics are a lot less.

I was looking at a LED light the other day in HD....rated life was shown as 25K hours.....at almost $30? I can buy a lot of CFL's.......

It's not there yet......

Right now LED's are better suited to lower voltage applications....automotive being one of them....

 

[Bright+]

I would like to hear a review from someone else about this LED, anyone? anyone?

http://www.led-guy.com/
.

If it doesn't meet LM-79 & LM-80 requirements, the claims are sham. The LED drop-ins by big names like Philips and GE only get 25-30 lumens per watt and have a very bulky heat-sink body.

The lumen output needs to be whats actually measured after its reached the full working temperature and the wattage is what goes into the whole bulb.

Not lumens based on LED catalog and power going into LED omitting driver/resistor dissipation.

Some LED accent lights are good, but but for general lighting, those cast a very strong shadow. For "general purpose" LEDs are just not there.

 

[alpg88]

51.3 lumens per watt



.

that is actualy belivable.

 

[blasterman]

Some LED accent lights are good, but but for general lighting, those cast a very strong shadow. For "general purpose" LEDs are just not there.

The Cree LR24 gets 79 lumens per watt according to the DOE Caliper tests. The Ecosmart scored 67 and costs $20, although it's a fairy new bulb.

Frankly this isn't too shabby in my book.

I've said this several times already, but I'm getting sick and tired of lighting technology being judged on how cheap you can buy crap at the local big box store for your convenience to shove in holes in cookie cutter McMansions with recessed lighting. Thomas Edison died 80yrs ago, but lazy consumers still insist on using lighting formats that have been obsolete for decades because they're lazy and stupid. Do you see your office at work using screw in light sockets?

The reason you have LED bulbs based on 5mm LEDs that last 20k hours is because people buy this junk. Has nothing to do with the actual technology.