808nm laser or IR flashlight

[Gamekeeper]

Hi,
i regularly use a pulsar digisight with its own ir illuminator on it.

I was thinking of getting another ir illuminator to increase the range & save the sights battery power.

I have been "advised" that a laser may be the better & less expensive option.

Can anyone clarify this?

Many thanks

Dave

 

[m4a1usr]

I tried an IR laser with my cheapie NODS that have built in IR lighting and the laser was a bit over powering. The center of the beam wanted to bloom the display and I found it a bit distracting. Maybe if the laser had a beam diffuser to force some spread just might be the ticket. John

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

^What he said. If you find an IR laser that is "focusable" or "adjustable," that would be your best bet for using a laser. Then, you'd have control over the spread. I'd just go with an IR flashlight, though. It's safer and can throw usable amounts of light pretty far. Don't know what is cheaper, decent IR laser, or decent IR flashlight.

 

[FRITZHID]

Distance is the ultimate issue here, if your target is close, ir flashlight us best, but for distance, an unfocused ir laser would do wonders. Bshan is right that an adjustable focus laser I'd best, then you can focus on the wide area at long lens with precision.

 

[Vandis2]

Bang for buck it is my understanding that laser diodes are much brighter and good for farther distance illumination where properly focused than any LED with an aspheric lens or what have you.

I believe you will need to approach a power output of >250mW of laser energy to get any appreciable beam strength to 250yds.

As far as costs, these things can be really cheap as a DIY.
I too have been planning a cheap laser illuminator build alternative to an LED IR illuminator.
I have been looking for a high powered 850nm laser diode or module to match my 850nm IR camera.
But I have discovered that one of the most common mass produced IR industrial laser diodes over 300mW seems to be the 808nm, hence prices are very low internationally for 808nm diodes, modules or fully operable lasers.
For example on ebay an 850nm-300mW diode sells for $54 whereas an 808nm 300mW sells for only $3.
And a full laser module with heat sink (808nm-800mW) can be bought for less than $100 whereas a similar 850nm is almost 4x that cost.

 

[Donkeykong]

Here's a video of my >3W 808 IR laser unfocused and focused targeting 400 meter tree line.

 

[Sigurthr]

Just remember that IR lasers pose no less risk to your retinal health than visible ones do. In fact they are actually even more dangerous because there is no blink reflex to deter you from staring at enough IR light to burn a hole in your fovea. When properly diverged and pointed into the distance with no obstacles in the way the danger is minimized, but it only takes a second to turn with the laser on and hit a specularly reflecting object in the near field.

 

[modarmory]

It depends on your primary objective is it home defense or hunting purposes? What is your range? There are several IR Illuminators that have the ability to be focused down to a laser point but also have the ability to create a wide flood. There are several brands that make a great IR Illuminator: Surefire M1 - hand held which is good for about 100 yards. This is not adjustable but it was a nice crisp circle. Surefire M952V or M720V is a combination of white light and IR, weapons mountable and are perfect for 150-200 yards. The M720V has a variety of settings. Luna Optics makes two IR illuminators which are both adjustable and include a weapons mount. Something to keep in mind with the nm is that if your primary objective is home defense then you will want a wavelength of above 840. The reason is that below 840 the IR illuminator will have a faint red glow which is visible within about 20 feet. I'd be careful on cheap IR lasers or Illuminators because the companies have a tendency to not accurately depict specifications. If you are interested in IR lasers than Laser Devices In (LDI) or Crimson Trace makes great class 1 IR lasers. Then laser devices makes a unit with everything, visible laser, ir laser and ir illuminator. However this unit is pretty pricey.

 

[sedstar]

I build night vision systems... I'm not holding the "distance record" in the group i am in, but, i am respectable now.

I have been thru this... i knew i needed a fairly powerful IR light. Since my digital night vision is behind a gun scope? it takes "more" IR light. (as magnification on the scope goes up? The light comign thru goes down)

I thought i wanted a IR laser, then on the site, most of the guys there HAD lasers and really didnt use them very muck... they tend almost to a man, to use LED IR source.

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for IR illuminators? Theres a lot of seriously overpriced stuff out there, and a lot of, well.... pretty much junk.

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the pulsar digisight you mention? its analogous to our "scopeless" builds... inside there is a camera lens basically, (low F, and probably C or CS mount)... and basically the guts of a security camera. (theres also a special board that creates the digital reticle)

I got caught up in the LED IR illuminator project... and i'm glad i did... I get WELL over 300 yards with my LED illuminator that i built myself... if you go the LED route, and you can build it yourself? (a flashaholic would recognize the build as a specialty flashlight, trust me)

some of our guys sort of specialize in building the LED illuminators fr the other members that cant or wont build them themselves... none of the members will recommend or even BUY a "commercial" LED illuinator anymore... the units the boys are building are better.

the nightvisionforums" in the UK is the site to go... i guarantee someone already OWNS a pulsar of your model, and had used one of the established illuminators aready with it, and can tell you what it "does".

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if you do go the laser route? there are several things against the lasers...

1) they are expensive to buy an illuminator. you CAN buy a fairly powerful IR module, fairly cheaply... (300mW, 35 bux ebay... 500mW, 80 bux ebay) but theres no guarantee it will work as an illuminator. 99% of the "laser consumers" want their IR laser to be a SPOT, and want it to burn matches and pop balloons, LMAO... the OPPOSITE of what an illuminator does.

as soon as its an "illuminator" instead of a "burning toy"... the price gets big.

2) very few lasers give a high quality picture, and your setup is at its core, basically a "scopeless" digital nightvision setup. most lasers give a "dotty" picture... you will think its suddenly "low resolution" the way it looks... LED illuminators give a "closed ccircuit TV" look, very nice picture.

3) one of our members, one "MRNEWBIE" built his OWN do it yourself laser illuminator. He has about not even 50- bucks into it, and he posted a video, demonstrating it working. he was showing crisp video of 500 yards, at 24x scope magnification! he goes almost twice as far, by dropping down to his scopes lowest power... 8x... since you basically have what we call a "scopeless" build? you could expect possibly even MORE distance. (in close, you just focus it WIDE, so you "waste" the extra outside your field of view... prevents blooming)

4) you just have to get the correct LENS... remember, most lenses are geared towards making a SPOT BURNER, not a wide illuminator, and having decent light (a lot of laser illuminators have "tiger stripes", and some multi-mode lasers, have horrible "hot spots" and the lenses make "lines"... *UGH*)

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how far can you really shoot? I know i can shoot 1000 yards, from a bench... but only with using my budies very expensive custom gun, and he's being the spotter, calling wind at that distance... with my OWN target piece i use for that? *shrugs* I do about 500 yards just fine... BUT, thats from a bench, in the broad daylight, at a piece of PAPER. Plus, i had all day to range in, and get used to the w-i-n-d

my own set up? I can already "see" clearly out past 300 yards... and really, i'm not taking shots in the pitch black, night vision or not, at any mroe than that distance. AT around 300 yards? I have enough time to shoot... and grab a cigarette and light it quickly... then POINT at the target JUST as it goes "ping!"...

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i'd decide how far YOU really intend to shoot... if 300 yards or a litle more would hold you over? I'd go with a LED illuminator made by one of our members that sell them/ I dont make anything off of it? But really... you can easily spend TWICE as much, and only see HALF as far... thats why the guys build them!

you COULD build your own laser, say 500mW class? for well under 100 dollars, with a little time spent at "laserpointerforums"...

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PS - you dont NEED 850nm... you COULD use 808... or 940... i bet your unit sees both fine... the only difference?

808 will be brighter, and go a lot further.... the same power in 850 will go LESS far... and 940 is a LOT less far...

the 940 is "weaker" for lack of a better word, but, it is pretty much invisible....

the 808 has a slight "signature" at the source, but the spread out beam is invisible... kinda looks like a cigarette in the distance. If your not hunting HUMANS, it wont spook the game, dont worry.

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if you seriously NEED to go more than 300 or a little more yards? Yeah, you need a laser... but, depending on conditions? some of our boys have showed "scopeless" videos (with LED immuminators) that hit up to 500 yards on a good night...

 

[firelord777]

Just remember that IR lasers pose no less risk to your retinal health than visible ones do. In fact they are actually even more dangerous because there is no blink reflex to deter you from staring at enough IR light to burn a hole in your fovea. When properly diverged and pointed into the distance with no obstacles in the way the danger is minimized, but it only takes a second to turn with the laser on and hit a specularly reflecting object in the near field.

Exactly,

Donkeykong, seeing your laser is higher than 3 watts, it can be very dangerous without the appropriate goggles. Visible wavelengths get focused onto the retina, UV rays are absorbed by the lens if IIRC. Infrared gets absorbed by your cornea, which means you slowly cook your eyeball alive, and without retinal pain receptors, you do not realize this is happening until you hear your eyeball go "pop", and while one second ago you didn't think you were doing any damage by direct or indirect exposure, it would now be pretty safe to say you're now blind.

Be careful, especially at 3 watts,

The one who said YOLO now has a pirate patch over one eye,

Cheers

 

[matt304]

I took apart a cheapie 55mW (measured) green 532nm laser pen. Down to the 808nm diode, which was around 290mW-300mW when refocused, from the diode only. That dot was visible at the focal point as a dim red dot, turning to fire orange as it cooked paper after it would go still. I can't imagine how dangerous that light being unseen actually is. 300mW of green would have you seeing purple if you tried staring where it was aimed.

Anyways, here's what happens. When I tested this, I was using my 2 ITT-Litton-tubed Pinnacle PVS-14s, mounted together, as a dual-tube gen 3+ NV binocular. At gen 3+, omni 7 tubes, the light amplification is huge. Like 40,000x. Even a wide beam 10° or so, showed you a bright white beam trace because of the air molecules reflecting photons. The better your night vision, the more opaque a beam will become in view. Thus, I modified a Surefire Scout M600 with the Malkoff P60 head, and used a triple-LED P60 drop in that was I believe 940nm or somewhere thereabouts. This was much better for viewing on a trail walking. Lasers I would say would merely need to be low power, single-mode diode type to keep a circular beam, and then they can be used for targeting purposes, but lasers are a pain rather for making into a NV flashlight, IMO.

BTW, the other day on the laser forums there was a guy mentioning some event that occurred where he said his 2W c-mount 808nm diode flashed his eye and he lost his color vision and color became gray and foggy. I suspect he stared at it's output. He said he was lucky that it ended up coming back, the color vision. Problem is, I don't think he was the one making the point on laser safety at the time. 2W in my eye, whoops, I'm sure the color will come back. Bad way to find out!

 

[bosummer]

You can have a try of IR LASER illuminator, wich is operated by DC input power supply. But operators should wear safety goggles, since infrared laser projects unsafe and invisible IR beam to retina.

 

[firelord777]

The boys over at LPF presented a diagram showing the absorption of laser light by the eye. Visible light passes the lens and is focused onto the retina. Ultraviolet light the same thing.

Now, with infrared lasers, however, the infrared wavelength is absorbed by the lens, and does not pass to the retina. This is why a 2 watt infrared laser may have not inflicted blind spots and ocular hemorrhage in the retina, as any other 2 watt laser would have done.

Because the infrared laser is absorbed by the lens, people don't realize they are damaging their eyes, which is why everyone warns others to exercise caution around these lasers. There have been reports of people literally "cooking" their eyes without knowing. As with any other 2 watt, the heat produced by absorption of the powerful laser beam is intense, coupled with the fact that it is near or totally invisible to us (in the infrared wavelengths, our eyes internal vitreous gel starts boiling and eventually "pops", at which point, it's fairly safe to say you're blind.

Cheers

 

[Eidetic]

UV light does not go into the eye. It damages the cornea and causes cataracts in the lens. It never reaches the retina.

Light in the near IR does make it to the retina. It's only the far IR that's does what you mention.

 

[firelord777]

UV light does not go into the eye. It damages the cornea and causes cataracts in the lens. It never reaches the retina.

Light in the near IR does make it to the retina. It's only the far IR that's does what you mention.

Yeah you're right, some parts are cloudy in my memory, thanks

 

[TEEJ]

From what I see, HID is a really strong IR emitter. If I put a IR filter on say a SureFire HellFire, etc, it throws a really strong flood of IR downrange. Using even auto gated NV for example, at 100 meters, its actually still so strong, that my guys need it turned off or aimed off center, etc, to avoid glaring out.

If you have trouble getting enough IR from an LED, try HID.