Aircraft landing lights, ACLs, yes, another thread.

Hamilton Felix

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It's been many years since I looked at a chart listing sealed beam specifications and looked at the 100 watt and 250 watt PAR36 and PAR46 landing lights - so I don't recall the numbers. But look for a "Q" preceding the four digit number, and it should be the halogen version of the light - same light but a little halogen bulb inside, a longer life and a slightly different candlepower rating.

Yeah, I thought about little 250 watt PAR36 landing lights or taxi lights to hide in the grille of a car with not much frontal area. But for driving, there are better options.

BTW, one of the best options is a handful of cars that were popular on the late 1960's, such as our 1967 Thunderbird: They had solidly mounted round headlights, and metal covers that hid the lights when not in use. Aiming does not go bad, like "pop-up" lights, and any non-stock appearing bulbs are out of sight when not in use. I really thought about fitting the T-bird with 5-3/4" Cibie H4's outboard, and installing those 150 watt sealed beam spots I have, in the inboard position. I could use only the H4's for "normal" high and low operation, click on the 150 watters for long range use. But that car seems to be stored at a restoration shop forever - or at least until I remedy my divorce-impoverished state, and I'll probably give it to my daughter instead of modifying it.

Also, while I like landing lights as spotlights, I've learned a few things about those. After many years of using Unity spotlights, in fire trucks, Hydro Operator work vehicles, personal trucks, etc. I've learned that the built-in Unity spotlights may be fine for a cop who uses them constantly, but they are a pain when kept for years of "occasional" use. Maybe it's our wet weather here, but they bind, develop poor contacts, have switch problems, and generally don't like sitting around in the weather.

What has worked for me on rural rescue vehicles, as well as occasionally on personal vehicles, is the type of handheld spotlight that can lock on and has an optional magnetic base. LSI lights have a captive nut. Another brand used to have a tapered socket and their base had a matching tapered "finger." Plug the light in the lighter, set it on the hood or roof, aimed at the work and locked on, and you don't need anyone to hold the light for you. Being stored inside when not in use, and being a simple light, it doesn't develop many problems.

Some years ago, I also picked up a suction-based "Go-Light" remote control spotlight. Not the wireless one, just a cheap wired model. But for occasional use it's OK.

I've built a few handheld lights, too. And I've upgraded cord size on a number of commercial lights.

My guess is that using a landing light as an extra-legal long range driving light is only cost effective if you get a good deal on landing lights, get the mounting buckets for next to nothing, and exercise a great deal of restraint in use.
 
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TorchBoy

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But look for a "Q" preceding the four digit number, and it should be the halogen version of the light - same light but a little halogen bulb inside, a longer life and a slightly different candlepower rating.
I see there's a 4509Q but that's "only" 100 W, and a GEH7604 (H for halogen!) at a mere 50 W. :sigh:

My guess is that using a landing light as an extra-legal long range driving light is only cost effective if you get a good deal on landing lights, get the mounting buckets for next to nothing, and exercise a great deal of restraint in use.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "extra-legal" but they would be fully legal here, where there is a limit on quantity (four illuminated lamps total at any time) but no specific limits on power, as long as pairs are the same and glare for other road users doesn't become a problem.
 

Hamilton Felix

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Sorry, Torch Boy, didn't look at your location, and I don't know your laws.

Here in the Police States of Amerika, pretty much everything is regulated. Landing lights as driving lights would be legal on private land, but a definite violation on any public road.

Not that I really care about legality, so long as one does not attract the wrong kind of attention and get caught. ;)

Last night, either my extra lights or my speed somehow annoyed a dumb *** National Park Ranger. By the time he turned around and chased after me, I had already run up a side road and parked the motorcycle. I sat around for an hour, removed my aux. lights to alter appearance, then continued. Friends with radio scanners told me how much fun and excitement he had, "pursuing" an imaginary motorcycle for miles and miles. Idiots. Park Rangers live to F**K with people, but their arrogance prevents them from ever learning much, even about the area they inhabit.

Time to try a less noticeable set of aux. lights...:rolleyes:


"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

--Ayn Rand ('Atlas Shrugged' 1957)
 
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TorchBoy

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Sorry, Torch Boy, didn't look at your location, and I don't know your laws.

Here in the Police States of Amerika, pretty much everything is regulated. Landing lights as driving lights would be legal on private land, but a definite violation on any public road.

Not that I really care about legality, so long as one does not attract the wrong kind of attention and get caught. ;)
Not that we really don't care about legality either, especially when making posts here on CPF. :)

You agree, through your use of this BB, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly illegal or promotes illegal activity.

I wouldn't want anyone to think that everything that's legal in NZ is legal everywhere, or that just because I could do it that they could also. :eek:

Anyway, for off road use they would be fun to have, but it would be cheaper and more convenient to have a bunch of 100 W halogen driving lights. Sadly the more modern the car the harder it is to find good places to mount extra lights.
 

Hamilton Felix

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A timely reminder, Torch Boy, thanks.

Standard disclaimer: "Nothing in this discussion should be construed as endorsing illegal behavior. Discussions are for information only, and may include hypothetical situations."

And for the record, since I did not know at the time I turned off the road to take a little rest, that the Officer was interested in me, I did not commit any offense against the law. "Eluding" is an offense, but the "eluder" has to know he's being chased. :shrug:

Still, getting "noticed" means one has been careless. My lower lights were an experiment, using these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350293029031&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT 30 watt MR16 bulbs that use the infrared reflective coating technology to compare with the performance of typical 50 watt halogens. Unfortunately, I think the claimed "8 degree" beam of this bulb (admitttedly designed primarily for track lighting and landscape use) has too much spillage. Even mounted low and aimed quite low, it's apparently a hair bright to be left on with low beams. I do wish that beam was better collimated.

Well, I learned the bike's primitive little charging system handles these OK. Next test will be to put the 55 watt PIAA bulbs back in those lights (an old pair of PIAA 1000X that a friend gave me), and see if the bike can carry a pair of 55 watt auxiliaries) as driving lights along with high beams.

If I can carry a pair of 55 watters, I think I'll resurrect my old Cibie series 95I yellow fogs, to run with low beam and make me more visible -- not to mention they really are good fog lights and it was quite foggy on half of my ride home last night. And if I can carry the extra 110 watts, I can mount a pair of 55 watt driving lights up high - something larger than the little PIAA 1000X lamps. Don't think I'll try a single 100 watt landing light, though. They are only good for high speed in a straight line, in perfectly clear air. ;)

Since the issue was raised, I'm not sure if all of the really high wattage landing lights have ever been duplicated in halogen versions. The way a landing light is built, it's probably almost as bright in the standard version -- while it's still "new" and the reflector has not been discolored and lost efficiency while the filament lost material. Also, aviation is horribly regulated and very backward in many ways (if not, flying small planes would be cheaper than driving today's cars). I do seem to recall some huge PAR64 lamps that ran at much higher voltage (like 120V) and were 1,000 watt quartz halogen -- probably for airliners. Anyone for getting an inverter and hanging them on your car? :naughty:
 
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Alaric Darconville

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Last night, either my extra lights or my speed somehow annoyed a dumb *** National Park Ranger. By the time he turned around and chased after me, I had already run up a side road and parked the motorcycle. I sat around for an hour, removed my aux. lights to alter appearance, then continued. Friends with radio scanners told me how much fun and excitement he had, "pursuing" an imaginary motorcycle for miles and miles. Idiots. Park Rangers live to F**K with people, but their arrogance prevents them from ever learning much, even about the area they inhabit.

Time to try a less noticeable set of aux. lights...:rolleyes:

And for the record, since I did not know at the time I turned off the road to take a little rest, that the Officer was interested in me, I did not commit any offense against the law. "Eluding" is an offense, but the "eluder" has to know he's being chased.

Didn't know you were being chased? Really? Then why did you take off the auxilliary lights to alter (your vehicle's) appearance?

You acknowledge extra speed or extra lights as being the reason he turned around. That's mens rea to me.
 

TorchBoy

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Next test will be to put the 55 watt PIAA bulbs back in those lights (an old pair of PIAA 1000X that a friend gave me), and see if the bike can carry a pair of 55 watt auxiliaries) as driving lights along with high beams.
My brother had a pair of 100 W driving lights on his first car which didn't have a very powerful alternator. He was driving along fine one dark night out in the country until the battery decided it was sucked dry, whereupon the engine started spluttering. He turned the driving lights off and the alternator was able to cope with the load again. I wonder how long the battery took to recharge.

How stroppy is your alternator?
 

3000k

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My brother had a pair of 100 W driving lights on his first car which didn't have a very powerful alternator. He was driving along fine one dark night out in the country until the battery decided it was sucked dry, whereupon the engine started spluttering. He turned the driving lights off and the alternator was able to cope with the load again. I wonder how long the battery took to recharge.

How stroppy is your alternator?

My truck had six 150W KC off road lights across the bumper when I bought it. Even though the motor has a heavy duty alternator, the lights would dim when the RPMs drop to idle. The other problem I had was that The lights would suck so much electricity that the ABS system did not have enough power to operate and would throw a code. I took the loghts off because the housings were very rusty and they just looked horrid on the truck.

I might try hiding a pair of KC Slimlights behind a Billet grille. Also low beam only projector housings are cheap at junkyards, often the headlight lens is cracked and is not salvageable but the projectors themselves are OK.
 

Hamilton Felix

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Didn't know you were being chased? Really? Then why did you take off the auxilliary lights to alter (your vehicle's) appearance?

You acknowledge extra speed or extra lights as being the reason he turned around. That's mens rea to me.

Good point, Alaric. Good reason not to admit to any change. ;) And I'm only guessing that speed or lights attracted attention. If stopped later, I might have been carrying those lights in my trunk because I was fabricating mounts and intended to mount 'em later. :devil: Or not... Frankly, I thought I was running slower than usual, due to winter conditions with some loose sand on the pavement in places. But Parkies look for excuses to mess with people. I've been stopped before by a Ranger, for having the temerity to pass him -- not speeding, just the idea that a mere mortal made bold to pass a lordly Park Ranger. I don't call these "traffic stops." They are "Park Ranger Ego Stops."

But I figure if I got noticed, I slipped up.

As a general policy, I think it's always best to avoid contact with the Damned Tree Soldiers (as we natives call the invasion/occupation force known by the public as NPS). Although, as a Vol. Fire Chief and EMT, I worked with some very good Officers over the years, I've found there are very few things in life that cannot be made worse by involving Law Enforcement.

Torch Boy, I know what you're saying. I've seen cars lose a charging system and run on the battery -- for a while. Had the generator quit on our 1958 Cadillac one night, so I unplugged a headlight and made it home on one low beam and no heater fan. My particular bike needs power for fuel pump/injection, as well as ignition. If you totally kill the battery you can't even bump start it, because you need significant power for the fuel injection, more than the ignition uses. I WILL be watching the voltmeter. If voltage sags until it's running on battery because the charging system isn't keeping up, I'll notice and take steps. The battery is only 11 or 12 amp hours. Not much room to upgrade, but I'll search for maybe a 17 amp hour unit that will fit the same space.

I was suprised to find so many bikes have such small and crude charging systems. Only the big touring monsters and most of the BMW's have what I call a "real" alternator. Mine simply spins permanent magnets inside a stator winding. The 3 phase output goes to diodes mounted elsewhere. A little IC controller uses three SCR's to short the stator outputs to ground when voltage gets too high. So it's a very small alternator, making full output all the time, regulated by turning the stator into a heating element. But at least it doesn't worry about brushes and sliprings.

The bike's little charging system would seem to be happiest at nearly full load, but not overloaded. Too lightly loaded would just mean more heat into the stator. Inefficient system, but I guess it works. When looking at this 280 watt alternator, I sometimes miss the 100 amp alternator of my Suburban.

Back to the original subject of this thread: I was moving a bunch of my old lighting stuff last night. I stumbled across a #4537 landing light and a #4509 light. Also, I found and old copy of a GE Miniature and Sealed Beam lamp listing. I show a Q4509 that's rated 100 hours instead of 25, and claims 140,000 candlepower. The real killer in that small PAR36 size is the Q4631 "Aircraft Landing, Wing Inspection" lamp with 250 watts, at 13.0 volts, 80,000 candlepower in a 13 degree horizontal by 12 degree vertical beam, and a 500 hour rated life. Hmm.. looks like I have the remnants of two old lists here. Second one lists a similar Q4632 "Halogen Quartzline" at 250 watts, 75,000 cp with a 14 by 12 beam and 500 hour life. Bear in mind, these are old catalogs.

In the 5-3/4" size, I see the old standby #4537 100 watt bulb, and the #4537X Marine Spot version that has a shielded filament. I see the monster #4522 250 watt lamp that is still in the left spotlight of my old offroad International Harvester truck. It claims 290,000 candlepower in a 12 degree wide by 10 degree high beam. Yep, puts a lot of light on the road. But over the years of intermittent use, I can see the reflector surface darkening. And it's still not a great driving light.

In the past, with a car that had few mounting options, I've considered sticking high powered PAR36 landing lights in "tractor flood" rubber housings. But I'd have to mount them too low, getting a "skimming" effect from the light, and they'd burn out quickly. With newer cars that use 9006 and 9005 bulbs, I think a better 9005 high beam bulb, backed up with heavy wiring and a relay, is a good place to start. I still have a pair of 100 watt 9005 bulbs I bought for my Suburban but never used.

If a person had a super cheap supply of landing lights, and the power to run 'em, I'd consider using them as "pencil beam" driving lamps. But in general, there are better options.
 
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12Johnny

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What a thread! Really informative and with very useful information. Thanks to all! :thumbsup:
 

TooManyGizmos

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I've heard the stories, of somebody with aircraft landing lights on their car/truck/boat and it being extremely bright.

However this ain't enough light for me.

Yes I know theres purpose built lights for this application.. I don't care, haha.



Please keep your ACL's OFF our public Hiways .

There is a reason for standards and laws .
.
 

Taswegian

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This is ancient, grossly inefficient technology. Remember, the airworthiness approval process for any/every piece of equipment that goes on an airplane is slow and very expensive, so things like landing lights change very slowly. Nowadays, there are much better choices than a 4509 even if we are sticking to the 5¾" round format. The H7680HIR, for example, is a 12.8v 80w sealed beam that produces 275,000 candela in a 6.5° conical beam and has a lifespan of 100 hours. Much more efficient and effective.

haha old thread but still useful!
I pulled out my old school ACL driving lights and fitted them to my car the other day. I thought one of the globes looked a bit shabby with a black smoke stain inside the unit. So i was in the process of tracking down some spares and had actually wondered why i seemed to be always replacing these globes before i came across this post sourced from Mr Google.
Now i might look into some replacements but early peeks dont look promising with prices starting around $300-400 for a swap out unit for the 4509. I might solder an Olight M3X head into each spotlight and work out how to power it hehe. :)
 
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