Annoyed by non-flashaholics?

[buds224]

Sure these people can go a day without power, that's easy. The problems start when the power is still out two or three days later. That's what people never think about. I think after a couple of days your neighbors would be very eagar to take up your offer to come on over lol.

Just to add to that.....there is a certain kind of comfort knowing the right light can be used for days (continuously, which equates to even more evenings when not used during the day) on a single cell, which can be reassuring if there are kids in the household. I can hear it now, "thanks Dad".

 

[degarb]

Before I became a flashaholic, I always thought those super heavy D cell Maglights, were specifically designed to beat us non flashaholics, because of the annoyance of our luminescent ignorance.

 

[guyg]

i got used to low information users as an avid knife user. The people i am around has no idea of quality or perfomance. I also gave up buying good knives or lites as gifts. I find something on the lower end of a good manufacture. Its sad when a good tool gets put in a drawer and forgotten.

 

[cancow]

I would be annoyed with your own behavior. Your grandparents have flashlights that work and have worked in the past. From their point of view why would they waste money on something that serves them already? Up until a couple decades ago people did not feel they HAD to have the greatest, latest gadget to fulfill some perceived nich. Money used to be for living a decent life, now it is for fulfilling OCD materialism. But soon all this will change and people will look back at the greed of this era in both awe and disgust. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have a quality product than 100 pieces of junk, but this specialty everything is over the top. I see $300 bats and mitts in stores for 7 year olds. Something is very off these days. But maybe I am just getting old...

 

[Erik1213]

Feel free. I'll continue using the tool best suited for the job.

Right. :thumbsup:

 

[Poppy]

Sure these people can go a day without power, that's easy. The problems start when the power is still out two or three days later. That's what people never think about. I think after a couple of days your neighbors would be very eagar to take up your offer to come on over lol.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I have back-ups, of my back-ups. Lanterns that run on rechargeable 6v SLAs, multiple 18650 batteries, and lights, and idk two dozen or so NiMH AAs, and AAAs. I have enough to supply my house and three or four others.

Back to the original poster, if your grandparents are happy with their 2D flashlights, you might just want to pick up a simple LED bulb replacement, and upgrade the incandescent light they are comfortable with, to one with a 30 lumin, long running LED. Walmart carries the rayovac brand for about $3.

 

[jorn]

No. Im more annoyed over non-stampcollectors. Without stamps we would have no mail, and i wouldn't have had many flashlights at all. Non-stapmpcollectors dont think of surch issues at all :devil:

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

No, they don't generally annoy me but rather I see this as a chance to showcase the lights I have and try and convert them to the "light" side

 

[degarb]

I would be annoyed with your own behavior. Your grandparents have flashlights that work and have worked in the past. From their point of view why would they waste money on something that serves them already? Up until a couple decades ago people did not feel they HAD to have the greatest, latest gadget to fulfill some perceived nich. Money used to be for living a decent life, now it is for fulfilling OCD materialism. But soon all this will change and people will look back at the greed of this era in both awe and disgust. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have a quality product than 100 pieces of junk, but this specialty everything is over the top. I see $300 bats and mitts in stores for 7 year olds. Something is very off these days. But maybe I am just getting old...

To me, the biggest problem with nonflashaholics, is that they think they can see, when they simply cannot. Good light is seeing well, not just seeing. I deal with this behavior daily. On one hand, it is better that we painters see better than the customer, who thinks they can see (but are really as blind as bats). On the other hand, I must constantly run around and make sure people are wearing their headlamps and lighting an area properly because I hate to pay for touchups.

At home, I am constantly in a state of disgust, because the wife and teen refuse to sweep and wash floors with headlamp--just lamp and window lighting.

I think paying $400 for a regulated ar reflector xml or nichia light really worth $60 to $100, indeed, is o.c.d. But clearly the $4 store light is not going to do what a $30 store light; and the $30 light is not going to do what the $60-$100 internet light will do. I can see paying $300 for a 3000lumen quad xml, if you must see 30 foot away--ie. you are a electric pole worker. Though, beyone 18 to 24 foot away, a painter can just about get away with dollar bill sized skips outside in high noon. (Which is why shoddy painters can paint one house after another on a street, as long as they are cheap and fast.)

 

[JCD]

Back to the original poster, if your grandparents are happy with their 2D flashlights, you might just want to pick up a simple LED bulb replacement, and upgrade the incandescent light they are comfortable with, to one with a 30 lumin, long running LED. Walmart carries the rayovac brand for about $3.

Are quality LED's available in that form factor?

Incandescent lights' reputation for providing a dim, sickly yellow beam is primarily due to the fact that people try to completely drain their alkaline (or "heavy duty") cells before replacing them, due to battery cost. The issue is with the battery technology, not the emitter technology. Perhaps a better option would be to invest in some D cell Eneloops and a smart charger, so that the grandparents have good batteries in their flashlight. With a battery that retains a charged when not used, and has a flatter discharge curve (compared to alkalines) in use, there's nothing wrong with using a 2D incan light for tasks around the house.

 

[dougie]

I am a flashaholic but understand why some/most people aren't bothered too much about a flashlight. However, I have been a EMT/paramedic for 27 years and have seen and experienced first hand how little money that the UK ambulance, police and fire services are prepared to spend on flashlights. Unfortunately. I've seen plenty of situations where emergency workers simply can't safely illuminate things they need to see to be able to safely and efficiently do their jobs. I've seen staff issued with non intrinsically safe flashlights and then go into explosive environments completely ignorant of the risks that the cheap flashlight they have been issued with poses simply because they know no better. I also have seen police officers trying to carry out searches using pathetic and useless 2 x AA flashlights! If this isn't bad enough a great many of these emergency workers wouldn't countenance spending a few pounds of their own money to buy a good flashlight arguing that the service they work for should supply it. Needless to say these folks were always the first ones to ask to borrow my self purchased light when they couldn't see anything!

 

[Poppy]

Are quality LED's available in that form factor?

Incandescent lights' reputation for providing a dim, sickly yellow beam is primarily due to the fact that people try to completely drain their alkaline (or "heavy duty") cells before replacing them, due to battery cost. <snip>.

I think the form factor is called a 2P bulb. The Rayovac ones at Walmart give a blue beam, not something a flashaholic would be particularly happy about, but it will last for about 50-60 hours in a 2D, and 80 hours in a 3D cell. I don't know if there are better ones available.

 

[bluemax_1]

To me, the biggest problem with nonflashaholics, is that they think they can see, when they simply cannot.

This made me LOL and recall something from high school.

A group of us went on a guided spelunking trip. This was back way before LED flashlights, and even headlamp options were pretty limited. The only bright headlamps with any decent runtime were the carbide lamps. I brought the brightest light I had (6v 4 D-cell with a big reflector) with a set of new batteries plus a set of spare batteries. We get to the caves and the guides give us a safety briefing and I turn to my buddy and ask, "where's your flashlight?". He replies, "I didn't bring one. I'm going to let my eyes adapt to the darkness".

The guide looks at him, pauses, and then starts laughing. He then tells us, "Where we're going, there is NO light except what we bring with us". At one point, he has the whole group stop and turn off all our lights and tells us to stand still with our eyes closed for about 5 minutes. Then he tells us to open our eyes and see what we can see with our lights off.

That was the darkest darkness I've ever seen. Amazingly, not one single person in the group had a Tritium or GITD watch bezel. There was literally no light at all. I waved my hand in front of my face and couldn't see anything. I actually put my hand on my face because I began to doubt that it was in front of my face.

Of course, my buddy was trying to borrow everyone else's flashlight.


Max

 

[JCD]

I think the form factor is called a 2P bulb. The Rayovac ones at Walmart give a blue beam, not something a flashaholic would be particularly happy about, but it will last for about 50-60 hours in a 2D, and 80 hours in a 3D cell. I don't know if there are better ones available.

In my experience, long runtimes are not necessary in household lights. Always having a reasonably fresh battery available, on the other hand, is important, no matter what kind of runtime the light offers. I would think that any benefit attained from switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted from the flashlight resulting from a switch from incan to a low end LED.

 

[bluemax_1]

In my experience, long runtimes are not necessary in household lights. Always having a reasonably fresh battery available, on the other hand, is important, no matter what kind of runtime the light offers. I would think that any benefit attained from switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted from the flashlight resulting from a switch from incan to a low end LED.

Not necessary for general usage, but in an extended power outage?


Max

 

[JCD]

Not necessary for general usage, but in an extended power outage?


Max

That's one situation for which long runtime would be beneficial. I think for most people, though, extended power outages are relatively rare, and should not be a primary consideration in a household light, especially considering how little light is needed during power outages compared to more common tasks requiring a household light.

Power outages are easily handled with candles, or even cheap LED lights poorly suited for anything else. Many folks opt to simply go to bed when it gets dark. Of all the inconveniences associated with an extended power outage, lack of light is pretty low on the list.

 

[Poppy]

Max,
I can relate to cave darkness. Years ago we took a tour at Luray Caverns in Virginia. They had the paths lined with electric lights, but at a certain point they also did a darkness demonstration.
After superstorm Sandy, I was in a number of 2 story apartment buildings after the power had been out for a few days. The emergency light batteries were dead. The halls had no windows, and no light at all. It reminded me of the cave darkness I experienced years before. I now carry a keychain light everywhere I go, because.... you never know.

 

[Poppy]

In my experience, long runtimes are not necessary in household lights. Always having a reasonably fresh battery available, on the other hand, is important, no matter what kind of runtime the light offers. I would think that any benefit attained from switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted from the flashlight resulting from a switch from incan to a low end LED.

JCD, you make a decent argument for keeping the incandescent bulb. However there are certain provisions to make it a winable argument.
1. The incan version of the 3D light only runs for 6-8 hours. With brand new3 batteries at the start of a power outage, that may buy the owner 2-3 nights of light. Assuming that the batteries are fresh! What if they are servicable, but at only 75% capacity? Then they are looking at maybe 2 nights, and just a glowing filament on the third.
2. "Always haveing a fresh set of batteries available is important..." I fully agree, however, I suspect that most people, do not have spare fresh batteries.
3. "switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted" I compared the 3D maglight with the incandescent, to a 2D rayovac LED. Indoors the light is different, primarily by tint. Outdoors, the mag has greater throw, and reminded me of why the maglight was the best, in it's time. For everyday indoor chores, the difference is negligible.

IMO, the difference in run-time is really significant. Back in the day when all lights were incandescent, more often than not, if one picked up a flashlight to use, the batteries were half dead. Afterall, they really only had a 2-3 hour runtime on carbon batteries. Alkalines picked them up to 4-5 hours. With an LED we are talking about a ten times improvement in run times.

So let's consider a 3D mag. After 4 hours of use (incan) it will be at 50% capacity, yet at 4 hours use (LED) it will be at 95% capacity. The incan will have a demonstrabile decrease in output, and the LED will not. For the next couple of hours the LED will have an output advantage. (until you change the batteries in the incan) provided of course that you have them, or they are obtainable. IF NOT... then the incan is dead, and the LED has 70 hours of useable light.

 

[JCD]

JCD, you make a decent argument for keeping the incandescent bulb. However there are certain provisions to make it a winable argument.
1. The incan version of the 3D light only runs for 6-8 hours. With brand new3 batteries at the start of a power outage, that may buy the owner 2-3 nights of light. Assuming that the batteries are fresh! What if they are servicable, but at only 75% capacity? Then they are looking at maybe 2 nights, and just a glowing filament on the third.
2. "Always haveing a fresh set of batteries available is important..." I fully agree, however, I suspect that most people, do not have spare fresh batteries.
3. "switching to a 2P LED form factor would be far outweighed by the significant decrease in usefulness of the light emitted" I compared the 3D maglight with the incandescent, to a 2D rayovac LED. Indoors the light is different, primarily by tint. Outdoors, the mag has greater throw, and reminded me of why the maglight was the best, in it's time. For everyday indoor chores, the difference is negligible.

IMO, the difference in run-time is really significant. Back in the day when all lights were incandescent, more often than not, if one picked up a flashlight to use, the batteries were half dead. Afterall, they really only had a 2-3 hour runtime on carbon batteries. Alkalines picked them up to 4-5 hours. With an LED we are talking about a ten times improvement in run times.

So let's consider a 3D mag. After 4 hours of use (incan) it will be at 50% capacity, yet at 4 hours use (LED) it will be at 95% capacity. The incan will have a demonstrabile decrease in output, and the LED will not. For the next couple of hours the LED will have an output advantage. (until you change the batteries in the incan) provided of course that you have them, or they are obtainable. IF NOT... then the incan is dead, and the LED has 70 hours of useable light.

I'm afraid you missed my point, which was the shortcomings of the lights mentioned by the OP have nothing to do with the emitter type and everything to do with the battery type. Switching from incandescent to incan won't solve the problem. As you said, indoors there is little difference between the LED and the incan lamp, except for tint (an important consideration for me, but not for most people), but outdoors the advantage goes to the incan (by a large margin, in my experience).

The best upgrade for the light would be a couple pair (or three pair in the case of a 3D light) of D size Eneloops (or similar LSD NiMH cells). That ensures the user will always have at least one fresh battery of cells for the light. Switching from alkaline chemistry should also improve runtime and provide more even output over most of the discharge. Just as important, Eneloops won't leak inside the flashlight while it sits unused in a drawer, rendering the light inoperable, no matter its emitter type. Switching the emitter to LED doesn't address those issues (not even the runtime in many cases, since most people are reluctant to throw out primary cells that aren't completely dead). Switching the battery type addresses all of them.

For a household light, even 2-3 hours of runtime is far more than is needed for the overwhelming majority of tasks. For the rare extended power outage, a 2D cell single mode light is WAY overkill for ambient lighting, regardless of emitter type. A different light, ideally something that does have very long runtimes, should be used for that task, assuming a flashlight it used for that task at all. (A small, efficient LED based light designed for AC power, plugged into a battery backup, would be an alternate, arguably better, solution. Candles are another viable option, one that many people would find the most practical. More and more people are utilizing gasoline powered generators for extended power outages.)

 

[Bullzeyebill]

I'm jumping in here as a fellow flashaholic. I am mostly in agreement with JDC. I went for years and years without using flashlights during power outages. I used candles, mini mags, D cell mags, camping lanterns, both gasoline and white gas, and later some of the newer, then, florescent lamps. Never felt the need to use different sources of lighting. I now chose to use LED lights, and other special lights, for my emergency lighting. I should qualify that statement by saying that as a flashaholic I would rather use my LED lights, and some of my higher power incan lights, than turn on an AC light at night. This because I know that my special flashlights are a hobby with me, and I enjoy using them. If I say otherwise, then I am just rationalizing the uses of my flashlights as a necessity, instead of a pleasure.

Bill