Arc will no longer be guaranteeing cosmetics

[Jarhead]

Sharkeeper, I'd too definitely have a major problem with that ARC4 in your picture. I'd be inclined to call that a complete showstopper.

Fellas, lets see pictures of you issues of your ARCs so we can see if you are just being nannies or if it really is a issue.

e.g. put a photo where your mouth is /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[Spade]

Well, It looks like I missed a lot while I was out of town! I found out about the updated return policy from the website, and came running to the forums to search for past posts to find out why.

Who on earth would return a light (or anything) more than twice? About ten years ago, I bought a certain multi-tool from one of Leatherman's competitors. The tool had a lifetime guarantee. After a few weeks, I was not happy with a particular aspect of its performance, so I got another. Same problem, so I took the second unit back, and did not bother with a third. I had a similar experience with an electronic device once. Two strikes, and you're out.

I have yet to see a perfect anything. The closest thing I ever bought was a Microtech UDT, and I managed to find the tiniest flaw there too. To put this in perspective, I own several Microtech knives, and they have an incredible reputation for manufacturing a quality "flawless" product.

I have purchased five Arc lights, and I regularly use four of them. I have found cosmetic "flaws" in each of them, but I have not returned any of them. Peter clearly states what one can expect when purchasing an Arc. I read it carefully, weighed reviews of other users, and made a decision. The fact that I keep buying these lights is evidence that I am pleased with the product.

My irritation lies with those who keep doing the same thing, expecting a different result. Five returns? Get real.

I must also admit that Peter's original policy helped sway me to buy my first Arc. The new policy won't keep me from buying more, but the Arc's premium price and the new disclaimer may drive off new business. If my first Arc happened to be a genuine cosmetic monster that somehow slipped through QC, I would have probably returned it. Under the new policy, I would not have bothered about a replacement. A real bummer for me, and a bummer for Arc too. I don't like it, but I like parisitic customers less I suppose. From that last statement would you believe I'm in Sales? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regardless of the policy, I think Arc will always do right by me. I sure hope I'm not being naive.

S

 

[sharkeeper]

[ QUOTE ]
Sharkeeper, I'd too definitely have a major problem with that ARC4 in your picture. I'd be inclined to call that a complete showstopper.

[/ QUOTE ]

The light pictured is an ARC LSH-P illuminated with a 12mW ARC AAA UV.

Cheers!

 

[paulr]

Spade, the issue is Arc doesn't seem to have the level of product consistency that Microtech might have. If you look at a bunch of different Arcs you are likely to see different problems on each one. Imagine yourself looking for a perfect Arc4+. You buy one and find that it has some HA discoloration, so you exchange it for with smooth HA but that one has a streak in the reflector, so you change that for one with smooth HA and no scratch but it has some LED tint. You get the idea that somewhere in Arc's inventory of however many hundred units, there's one that doesn't have any of those problems, and that's the one you want--the question then is how to find it. What you really want is for Arc to find it for you and just sell it to you without all the nonsense, and that's what you thought you were getting by paying extra for a "premium" edition, sort of like when you bought a Sebenza instead of a Benchmade, but it turns out that Arc meant something different by "premium" than what you thought they meant. So you end up trying to do the job yourself. From any reasonable point of view you're being an obnoxious PITA, but from your own point of view, you see yourself doing Arc's QA department's job, without even getting paid for it.

There's something to be said for brick and mortar stores where you can look at the product before you buy it. It's quite normal in professional camera stores, for customers to go to the counter and ask the salesman to bring ten copies of some thousand dollar lens from the stockroom. They'll then inspect each one of them, choose the one they think is the best, buy it, and send back the other nine. The same thing happens with fancy watches, knives, or whatever else. And of course a similar selection process happens with Luxeon LED's, where a few really exceptional ones out of tens of thousands manufactured found their way into Arc 4x's and caused a feeding frenzy on CPF.

If I were looking for a cosmetically perfect Arc to put in a collection or whatever, I could imagine calling Peter and explaining what I wanted and offering to pay for the time of someone to search the warehouse for a flawless light. (Of course I'd have no idea what he'd say to that). I can't criticize the desires of someone who wants such a thing. I'd like to own a Sebenza myself someday. But the tactic of just buying Arcs from stock and then sending back unit after unit under the satisfaction guarantee is just plain abusive and obnoxious behavior and Peter had to put his foot down.

 

[brightnorm]

Anodize mismatch is irrelevent to me unless it is extreme. Scratches, dings, signs of wear are unacceptable to me in any new product regardless of price. At this moment I have six black Maglights on the table in front of me: three 2AA's, two 2C's, one 3D and one MagCharger. Some are new, none have been used extensively. All appear virtually perfect - scratch and ding-free, gleaming like new except for a few of MY fingerprints. I would expect no less from ARC.

Brightnorm

 

[Spade]

paulr, I agree with you entirely. I brought up MT knives only to illustrate the lack of perfection in a "near perfect" product. I mentioned that my Arcs have flaws. As small and unnoticeable as they are, they're still there. I never thought of sending any of them back for such minor things. My overall satisfaction with the product far outweighed any desire to make a stink over a tiny scratch in the hopes of getting a better one. As I mentioned, Peter has made it very clear what one can expect to see in a new Arc. The new policy won't dissuade me from purchasing more.

I still have a hard time imagining anyone exchanging a product more than twice. It is my experience that the dissatisfied customer and the merchant are both quite ready to end the relationship after a second unfortunate experience. Like you said, it's an abusive and obnoxious tactic.

S

 

[Spade]

brightnorm, Those Mags will appear virtually perfect until you turn them on. Each beam will be different, and each one will have all sorts of shadows and imperfections. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It's quite clear that everyone has their own idea of what a blemish is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[brightnorm]

Spade,

Obviously, but the reference is to external cosmetic and asesthetic issues. Clearly, most Flashaholics don't buy Maglights for their beam (MagCharger excepted).

BN

 

[k4jdn]

What if the new truck......... moved per \"Empath\"

Per Empath:"Append such thoughts onto the original thread. The first thread is still alive and active. A second thread isn't needed. This ones closed."

I expected NO LESS due to the "pro-Arc at any cost" stance of many here. I own well over a dozen premium Arc's, but I've bought my last one. Also, the definition of a "tool" has to be made by the purchaser, not the manufacturer.

Here ya go, moved ............

What if the new truck you ordered from Ford or GMC, a premium model to use as a tool for your work, had scratches, and the dealer handed you a "policy" stating:
Note: GMC(or Ford) will no longer guarantee cosmetic quality of any trucks we make. Cosmetics include patterns, smudges, scratches, lines, tint variations, etc in the anodize, lens, reflector, optic, button, etc. If it does not affect the operation of the truck (brightness, corrosion resistance, interoperability of parts), we will not replace the truck at any time. You may return the truck of course during the 30-day satisfaction guarantee period but not replace it with another truck. Again, there will be no replacements because of a cosmetic issue.

Would you buy their truck, or look for another manufacturer?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

 

[Fastlane]

Re: What if the new truck......... moved per \"Empa

Your vehicle analogy may not be the best you could use. Unless it falls under the "lemon law", you are pretty much stuck with a vehicle once you buy it and problems are handled by warranty repair.
Not that it diminishes your obvious dissatisfaction in any way.
If you compare the Arc4+ by cost/weight to my Excursion, the truck would have cost me about $7,945,000.00. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif
How's that for totally irrelevant.

 

[Moth]

Re: What if the new truck......... moved per \"Empath\"

k4jdn
Let's address these one by one:
[ QUOTE ]
Per Empath:"Append such thoughts onto the original thread. The first thread is still alive and active. A second thread isn't needed. This ones closed."

I expected NO LESS due to the "pro-Arc at any cost" stance of many here.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the rulebook: "#7. Double and Cross Posting
DO NOT post the same thread more than once anywhere on the board." I'd say that applies.
And don't forget "#6. Whining and Complaining about the rules."

[ QUOTE ]
Note: GMC(or Ford) will no longer guarantee cosmetic quality of any trucks we make.

[/ QUOTE ]

Companies do make policy changes and consumers vote with their wallets. What do the consumers of ARC flashlights prize? Function? Price? Ease of use? Aesthetics? Cosmetics? If any of these tip the scale too far, i.e. on the demand side, then either the manufacturer changes, or competetion steps in, or whatever. It's supply and demand.

I think what you are seeing is that cosmetics are simply not that high on the priority list for most folks and perhaps you wish it was high on <font color="red">their</font> lists because it is high on <font color="red">your</font> list and you'd like to see a groundswell of opposition so the policy would change. There's nothing wrong with that - but can you see the need for the policy change?

To revisit [ QUOTE ]
I expected NO LESS due to the "pro-Arc at any cost" stance of many here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there is broad support for changes, what does happen? Take a look at the "switch guard" threads, as one example. People were "dissatisfied" with a function, in this case, (demand) and so the new guard was born (supply). Consumer demand drives the marketplace. It's up to the manufacturer to identify, interpret and respond to demands as it deems necessary.

I hope this helps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif