Are CR123 Primary Cells Dead?

[Hooked on Fenix]

CR123A primaries aren't dead, but I am definitely using less now that I have some Orbtronic 2500 mAh 16650s. These batteries replace 2 123A cells and only cost me $7.75 each for protected cells. They last longer as well in anything that can handle the lower voltage. If they were smart enough to make these with a boost circuit built in to bump up the voltage to 6 volts, very few 2 cell 123A lights would still be using primaries except in very cold weather. Some of the newer 18650 cells are regulated, so it shouldn't be that difficult to do that. Rechargeable 123A cells could likewise have a buck circuit to drop the voltage to a regulated 3 volts while keeping a higher power density compared to some lithium polymer cells. Fenix is starting to make cells like this in AA size that are USB rechargeable. I think we are going to start seeing more modified cells with circuitry built in to bring the cell to the correct voltage of batteries it should be used to replace. When this becomes more mainstream, CR123As will rarely be used.

 

[bykfixer]

The more stuff they put in rechargeables to make them do all those things people want... the more stuff that can fail, which, at least to this user will cause me to continue using primaries.

 

[LeanBurn]

CR123 cells are only alive to those that use them. In Canada where cost and availability are an issue, the CR123 are pretty scarce, in some other than camera stores and a drug store perhaps.
Furthermore, to those like me that don't have a single device that uses them they aren't even on the radar, nor will they ever be.

 

[Launch Mini]

LEOs use a ton of primaries. They can't worry about taking batteries back to be recharged, storing etc. Just swap and go.
As said above, primaries fade slowly, so with them, the LEO are not left in lurch in total darkness.
So they will be around a long while.

 

[recDNA]

CR123a still my battery of choice.

 

[chillinn]

CR123A can't be dead, because 16340 secondaries cannot replace them for at least a couple reasons. First of all, cost. It is not exactly clear (as it is with AA primaries and NiMH) that the better value is in secondaries, because they are expensive and fragile. CR123A are still kind of cheap, so a test case of running an E1E for 10 hours would probably cost less than $10 for 10 primary cells. However, running the same light (with a lamp that can handle it) with 4.2V 16340 for the same period will take 3 cells per hour, and even if the brightness is nicer, you're going through 30 cells in 10 hours at an initial cost of around $200 (for quality cells, like AW IMR). Over the life of those secondaries, assuming you baby them, you can get 500 recharges, but that takes time (and time is money, but we don't calculate it into the cost for some reason) and ultimately the lifetime cost should settle for around half the cost of primary (not counting time). So it's a real puzzle that depends on the use case. However, if you're on the fence about whether to run primaries or secondaries, the fail safe is to run primaries for low initial cost of investment, and safety.

 

[vicv]

Depends on how long you've been using them and in which light. I have 2 in a light I out in a couple days ago and it's nice and bright. They're not dead

 

[markr6]

Don't most of those trail cams hunters use take CR123? No way I would put li-ion rechargeables in those things that sit out in -50° to 120° weather 24/7.

After a quick search I see some take the AA size, so L91s are an option.

 

[ncgrass]

Depends on how long you've been using them and in which light. I have 2 in a light I out in a couple days ago and it's nice and bright. They're not dead

I just rolled my eyes and chuckled at the same time, vicv... Awful joke, but well done, you made me laugh

 

[vicv]

Thanks. Ya it was pretty bad

 

[StorminMatt]

It depends on what you mean by CR123's being 'dead'. Once upon a time, they were the 'go to' battery thpe if you wanted a small and powerful light. After all, it was CR123 or alkaline. So if you wanted lots of lumens in a small package, CR123's were the only game in town. But since then, they have been FAR surpassed by both rechargeable Li-Ion and even NiMH. In this day and age of 500 lumen 1xAA lights and 18650 lights that put out LOTS more, CR123 lights are dead as far as being on the cutting edge of performance. However, they are NOT dead in the sense thay they still have their niche uses. As mentioned by others here, they have advantages such as low temperature operation and the ability to retain a charge for long periods of time. Beyond these things, some people might like them because of the fact that they don't need to worry about chargers or because they like the form factor of the lights. All of these are valid reasons for some to stick with the format. But for the rest of us, rechargeables just make more sense. Especially since they are stronger performers, they are reusable, and since a brand new quality unprotected 18650 is actually CHEAPER than a CR123 from a typical retail store.

 

[dennck]

I believe CR123A primaries are being used much less now but far from dead. I load most of my flashlights with rechargeables just like most users do but I also load one with CR123A's for emergency standby. It works every time when I need it most.

 

[mbw_151]

I'm pretty sure that the military will keep 123s alive for a long time. I think the 6P is still on the NSN list along with those new fangled LED lights.

 

[jimbo@stn23]

CR123 cells are only alive to those that use them. In Canada where cost and availability are an issue, the CR123 are pretty scarce, in some other than camera stores and a drug store perhaps.
Furthermore, to those like me that don't have a single device that uses them they aren't even on the radar, nor will they ever be.

CR123's in Canada are cost effective and plentiful if you know where to look. I just received 4 dozen. The form factor of a typical 2 cell 123 cell light makes for a comfortable light with the features I like. For folks that enjoy the hobby and playing around with lights, rechargeable makes alot of sense, but for my applications, primaries see the most use. I do dabble with the rechargeable cells for my Malkoffs and driving P90/91, LF style lamps.

 

[etc]

Li-Ions are expensive and heavy and bulky. Not everyone is in a position to recharge. CPF is a very small community given the rest of the world. If the dot mil goes on a mission, 123s are clearly the choice since can you image them dragging back 18650 back to the base to recharge.

123s are very light and disposable and compact.

In a pinch, you can smash one with a rock to smart a fire if your lighter is misplaced.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Li-Ions are expensive and heavy and bulky. Not everyone is in a position to recharge. CPF is a very small community given the rest of the world. If the dot mil goes on a mission, 123s are clearly the choice since can you image them dragging back 18650 back to the base to recharge.

No, Li-ions aren't expensive as you don't figure the expense of batteries entirely on the initial cost but rather cost over the life of the battery (many charge cycles). If you compare the cost of 1-3 18650s and a charger with the cost of 15-25 CR123s they may cost the same but the fact is you can get 50-100 charge cycles from the 18650s which means just 1 of them in the long run would pay for ALL your CR123s 2-3 times over in use. As for the heavy/bulky unless you are using a single CR123 based light with NO spare batteries, I agree an 18650 is heavier and bulkier but once you go to 2 cells then an 18650 isn't much bigger than 2 CR123s yet matches capacity and weighs about less than 50% more than the 2 123s it replaces as 2x123 weigh about 34g while an 18650 weighs about 40-45g. Essentially for a little extra weight and negligible volume you could carry an 18650 light and a spare 18650 instead of a single or double cr123 light and 4 total batteries for it.

123s are very light and disposable and compact.

Another difference is that when you do get home you can recharge the 18650 batteries again and again and even just top them off and know you have 100% runtime while once you use 123s you have to keep track of how much runtime they have otherwise you either have to put new batteries in them to start, change batteries more often when they die, and perhaps manage a bunch of half depleted 123s and when they are depleted you have to dispose of them over and over... 50 of them perhaps to a single 18650.

In a pinch, you can smash one with a rock to smart a fire if your lighter is misplaced.

In a pinch you could use steel wool or a small piece of wire to start a fire with an 18650 or just carry a lighter.

 

[bykfixer]

Not everyone is in a position to recharge. CPF is a very small community given the rest of the world. If the dot mil goes on a mission, 123s are clearly the choice since can you imagine them dragging back 18650 back to the base to recharge?

123s are very light and disposable and compact.

Well put.

 

[nightshade]

I like the long term shelf stability of the CR123 cell. These Panasonic cells have a date of 01/2000 and have been stored in Chicago,until this month, in a non climate controlled workspace for decades. A ZTS test indicates 60% capacity.

Now, I'm not a battery snob, tint snob, pwm snob, manufacturer snob, low light snob, constant current snob, user interface snob or other snob. I just like things that serve a purpose and accomplish a task with minimal fuss. In the very early 90's a dive shop salesman informed me I probably would not be able to source CR123 for my Tekna light in the next century.:thinking:

 

[martinaee]

Well I guess most of the lights I have can use them, but I only own them as emergency back-ups. It's really nice that they have such a long shelf life. It means you can save up and buy a few boxes then if there ever were a long term power outage or say the entire grid went down for some apocalyptic reason you'd have light for a long time. Even for AA lights it's nice that you can do that with the high quality L19s.

 

[etc]

I like the long term shelf stability of the CR123 cell. These Panasonic cells have a date of 01/2000 and have been stored in Chicago,until this month, in a non climate controlled workspace for decades. A ZTS test indicates 60% capacity.

Now, I'm not a battery snob, tint snob, pwm snob, manufacturer snob, low light snob, constant current snob, user interface snob or other snob. I just like things that serve a purpose and accomplish a task with minimal fuss. In the very early 90's a dive shop salesman informed me I probably would not be able to source CR123 for my Tekna light in the next century.:thinking:

DAte 01/2000 is that manufacture date or expiration date?


I assume the latter, just wanted to make perfectly clear.