At what point is a "Custom", no longer a Custom?

[F250XLT]

Since we are dissecting the word custom, what are your thoughts on the term made by hand...

Also if a factory torch has been customised by a custom maker to specifically suit a persons needs, does it become a custom....or are you just a customer of a custom maker....

Not trying to dissect a word here, trying to differentiate loosely used titles given to lights.

BIB's .02

In my vernacular, "custom" is synonymous with "unique" or "one-of-a-kind". If they're two-of-a-kind identical specimens, then it's a grey area whether they're "custom" or "production" - irregardless whether they were both made by hand by the same person. Limited runs also are a grey area as well, for instance....prototypes. Are they "customs"? Or is a prototype a class all to itself? What would a McGizmo Ti 27LT proto (4 pcs made if memory serves correctly) classify as?

I think by definition, any of PhotonFanatic's one-off's are undeniably "custom" whereas CoolFall's Spy's and Tri-V's...while certainly drool-inducing and highly sought after and in limited quantities...are "production".

In the end, I think your OP is a thought-provoking one, and opinions are surely to differ from one individual to the next. In the meantime, I'm sure the mod's will do a great job making their own determinations which sales threads belong in which sub-forums and which threads will get moved to somewhere more appropriate. Would be interesting to hear some of their inputs here as well.

For the record, in my opinion doing an emitter swap hardly qualifies the light as a custom.

I really think you are on the right track...Fred's lights are absolutely Custom, as custom as it gets IMO. And If you think a Tri-V is a production light, so is everything Don is doing these days...no? (I agree with this opinion BTW)

What about a McGizmo AL PD with Grey HA, PEU trit bezel and a emitter swap to neutral XM-L with amperage bump.

I call that a modified production light.

 

[nbp]

Small or one person shop, original design, premium materials, the product of sweat, obsession, and passion for what they do. Be it parts or a complete light. That's my definition, yours obviously differs. In the end, i'm curious as to your motivation for asking...

Sounds good to me!

My McGizmos, Muyshondts, Mac, BitZ are not 1 of 1, but the above characteristics make them all Customs in my book. Maybe a machine did some of the work on the body tubes, so what? Each one of those lights was put together by one set of hands, tested by those hands, packaged by those hands, addressed to me by those hands, and all the while those same hands typed emails or PMs to me to discuss their product and answer my questions and concerns. That's Custom to me

 

[ElectronGuru]

Once it has been produced by automated machining multiple times, and is basically in "in stock" item, do you think it is still a "Custom" light? Why should lights be any different from knives?

Its a tricky comparison. Good knives are forged, and require a hammer to take their final shape. Mass produced vs custom knives will be whether that hammer is attached to a machine or someone's arm. I can't even imagine what a forged flashlight would take to make, so machine cutting actually requires less resources. The only question then, from a pure manufacturing standpoint is if a hand was turning the knobs and levers or if it was programmed. The main obstacle to automated/programmed milling is batch size. It may take 1000 pieces just to break even on the setup chargers.

 

[brighterisbetter]

I'm starting to think the difference lies in "custom" versus "personalization". A BTO (build to order) configuration offered on Macbook computers is a way to tailor it to the user specification prior to or in tandem with the sale transpiring. However, the sheer magnitude of Macbook computers sold and having few BTO options available means that there will be multiple iterations of the same configuration sold to the public. Would you consider those laptops customs? I would not.

My classification of McGizmo's being non-custom doesn't make them any less special in my eyes. So to anyone reading my post, please don't misinterpret as such. I just think that "custom" and "unique" are absolutely mutually inclusive terms. "Personalizing" a light certainly makes it unique, as is the case with serial numbers, and splash anodizing, and etching/signing clips, etc. But at the core of those procedures is still a light underneath that does not differ from others offered by same vendor within the same product category. A "custom" is one that is built from scratch to the customer's unique requirements, not one that is built to order by the simple swap of one or two or three components of an otherwise semi-production unit.

 

[F250XLT]

Saying a McGizmo isn't a custom in no way lessens what it is, a fantastic, well thought out product. But it is certainly a production light at this point IMO.

 

[brighterisbetter]

Each one of those lights was put together by one set of hands, tested by those hands, packaged by those hands, addressed to me by those hands, and all the while those same hands typed emails or PMs to me to discuss their product and answer my questions and concerns. That's Custom to me

+1

 

[the_guy_with_no_name]

This is a really great question!
Very custom indeed

It does seem everyone has their own opinion.

CPF policy has its own definition in terms of whats allowable in the custom builders & modders section, but in the truest sense, perhaps a custom is a light where each is either individually made or individually modified so that it is "customized" in a way different to the run-of-the-mill version.

Its common to see "custom edition" cars or other mass produced products, but perhaps when it comes to flashlights, it would seem that custom implies more of a "unique" or "craftsman" type of meaning than the context used for such mass produced products.

So interesting to see so many varied opinions and interpretations of the same words

Just imagine how much variance there might be if we ask "How do you define bright?"

tgwnn

 

[brighterisbetter]

(my stupid post deleted sorry)

 

[F250XLT]

CPF policy has its own definition in terms of whats allowable in the custom builders & modders section, but in the truest sense, perhaps a custom is a light where each is either individually made or individually modified so that it is "customized" in a way different to the run-of-the-mill version.

I guess that is where I see a true difference, custom vs customized. I am speaking of a true custom from the get go, not some tweaks to a production light. Just because something is assembled by hand, does not make it a custom. If that were true, we'd be paying a lot more for many "custom" items in our everyday life.

 

[the_guy_with_no_name]

I guess that is where I see a true difference, custom vs customized. I am speaking of a true custom from the get go, not some tweaks to a production light. Just because something is assembled by hand, does not make it a custom. If that were true, we'd be paying a lot more for many "custom" items in our everyday life.

Sure, that makes sense.
I visualize what you are saying as something akin to a sword maker, where each item is forged by hand (whether pre-ordered or not) and each is a unique masterpiece.

I guess the more specific the wording, the more concise of an image/definition it creates.

Perhaps in CPF, keeping it somewhat broad allows room for flexibility but you could easily differentiate:
custom
customized
custom-made
made-to-order
individually-made (crafted/machined)

Even then, there may be some ambiguity in deciding where to draw the line?
Using a mass produced led is ok, but not a mass produced body, how about the reflector, lens, switch, etc?

Something to think about

tgwnn

 

[F250XLT]

Sure, that makes sense.
I visualize what you are saying as something akin to a sword maker, where each item is forged by hand (whether pre-ordered or not) and each is a unique masterpiece.

I guess the more specific the wording, the more concise of an image/definition it creates.

Perhaps in CPF, keeping it somewhat broad allows room for flexibility but you could easily differentiate:
custom
customized
custom-made
made-to-order
individually-made (crafted/machined)

Even then, there may be some ambiguity in deciding where to draw the line?
Using a mass produced led is ok, but not a mass produced body, how about the reflector, lens, switch, etc?

Something to think about

tgwnn

It's all about the host, I don't know anyone who currently produces their own LED...do you? I know some have machined reflectors from scratch, and others have designed new switches. Let's not even start wondering who is making custom windows.

And yes, the term Custom is a very broad one here on CPF...and that's okay.

 

[F250XLT]

Duplicate

 

[the_guy_with_no_name]

It's all about the host, I don't know anyone who currently produces their own LED...do you? I know some have machined reflectors from scratch, and others have designed new switches. Let's not even start wondering who is making custom windows.

And yes, the term Custom is a very broad one here on CPF...and that's okay.

Thanks for the reply

I had spec'ed making a custom led for the CoreTi, though it would have been a few thousand so that would have become a production led.
I didn't end up doing it because the spec wasn't going to be near where it needed to be.

I know that Michael at OMG (DEFT) works, test and calibrate's each unit by hand, and although the body's are pre-made (mass), at least to me, those are very very custom.

Nice to have so many opinions and viewpoints

tgwnn

 

[ElectronGuru]

I know that Michael at OMG (DEFT) works, test and calibrate's each unit by hand, and although the body's are pre-made (mass), at least to me, those are very very custom.

Examples are tricky too. Henry works, tests, and calibrates each unit before shipping. And few would argue that FiveMega isn't custom, with many items produced 50+ at a time.

Bottom line, one of a kind (true custom) lights are $1000+. There has to be some degree of volume/parts uniformity, to be affordable enough for most (or even many) members.

 

[nbp]

So if we take the purest form of the word Custom: I contact builder X, tell him what I want that doesn't already exist/isn't available/is one of a kind, he builds me one and ships it, then there aren't really very many true Custom Builders around actually. Who would you guys say fall into that category?

 

[ElectronGuru]

Mirage Man comes to mind

 

[Obijuan Kenobe]

Fred, Brian, and maybe Scott if you can get him.

Custom has come to mean alot it does not as a result of knives and lights and cars.

I believe this word is going in the same direction as tactical...toward meaningless awesomeness.

I don't use the word unless I am selling something.

obi

 

[F250XLT]

Oh gosh, don't get me started on "tactical" :laughing:

 

[F250XLT]

So if we take the purest form of the word Custom: I contact builder X, tell him what I want that doesn't already exist/isn't available/is one of a kind, he builds me one and ships it, then there aren't really very many true Custom Builders around actually. Who would you guys say fall into that category?

As mentioned, Fred & Brian...Don't forget JHanko & TB

 

[nbp]

Fred, Brian, and maybe Scott if you can get him.

Custom has come to mean alot it does not as a result of knives and lights and cars.

I believe this word is going in the same direction as tactical...toward meaningless awesomeness.

I don't use the word unless I am selling something.

obi

Fred is PhotonFanatic. Who's Brian? Scott (Milky?) Forgot about MM and JHanko, though JH makes some ridiculously cool stuff.

It seems then that there were more true Customs years ago then, hey? Weren't people like TranquilityBase, Morelite, Erin, etc doing a lot of one-off bodies and heads? Who else does that stuff now?