Turbos also come with a thicker tube and tail clicky which is mostly cosmetic to match the bigger head. Tactical interface includes a forward protruding clicky while regular includes a shrouded tail standing reverse clicky. 4/7s sells optional clickies like the shrouded tail standing forward one for the turbo.
Best 1xAA EDC these days? Required features in post
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I might have to look into the QPA/QP2A-G2 with a 1xAA body.
After looking at the differences, I prefer the Regular to the Tactical interface. IIRC, the Tactical interface allows the user to program any 2 modes to switch between, but trying to get to ANY other mode aside from the 2 programmed ones is a bit of a chore? With the regular interface, it works much like the Fenix I'm used to, i.e. tighten head = Turbo, half-press to tactical strobe, loosen head = moonlight, half-press to Low, Med, High, SOS, Beacon.
I tend to alternate use between Low, Med and High so having quick access to only 2 modes is a no go, and it appears the Turbo only comes with the Tactical interface.
One last question if I may: Foursevens is proud of the fact that you can Lego their lights. Is there any difference between a QPA-G2 head and a QP2A-G2 head if they're both on a 1xAA body? If I put either one on a 1xAA body, there would be no difference between the heads in outputs and runtimes of the various modes on a 1xAA Eneloop or alternatively, on 1x14500 AW protected Li-ion right?
If that's the case, I think the QPA-G2 with the shrouded forward clicky might be just the ticket for me (the shrouded forward clicky tailcap will work with the QPA right?).
Max
Yes, is the answer to every question, no diff between head of A and 2A. Tactical is not good if you like to use 3 modes. Regular is effectively a tactical set to moonlight and max, or one clicky from low / max.
It should be noted that the shrouded forward clicky is a Turbo clicky, that is a little wider than the body of the regular/tacticals and so may not be as aesthetically pleasing as stock, but it will work fine on the light.
It should be noted that the shrouded forward clicky is a Turbo clicky, that is a little wider than the body of the regular/tacticals and so may not be as aesthetically pleasing as stock, but it will work fine on the light.
Thanks for the answers. QPA-G2 with Turbo Tailcap it is then. The aesthetics don't bother me much as the light already has different diameters for the body vs head and tailcap.
Oh, actually, one last question: With the Pro/Regular interface, when the light is On, half presses on the switch will cycle through the modes. Can I use the momentary tailcap with a Pro/Regular interface? In other words, if the light is NOT switched On, does momentary work the way it does on any other light, i,e, I can flash it On and Off with half presses as I choose (even to use it for Morse code), and the half presses only cycle through the modes IF the Light has been turned On with a full click?
Max
liveris flashlights
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* Must be able to use 1xAA alkaline, NiMH (and Lithium primaries?)
Don't forget the Klarus ST10. One of my favorite small flashlight.
Don't forget the Klarus ST10. One of my favorite small flashlight.
Good you asked, I forgot to mention that single button forward clickies do not work well with multimode lights. The device cannot tell if you want to use half presses for momentary at a constant level, or for mode switching. A forward clicky only half-presses from off, while a reverse only half-presses from on, you are describing both in the same switch.... doesn't exist afaik. If momentary is a must on multimode, it is better to find a 2 button, or dial+button light where the second input can handle the mode switching.
I personally dislike forward clickies and I've put a few reverse clickies on my tactical interfaces. Momentary messes up my night vision and has me seeing spots all the time. I like using the lowest level for a given task to retain as much night vision as possible, and having it constantly on while I need it, and I'll even turn on my light pointed away from my subject then ease the beam into view spill first, then hotspot, which is the easiest on my night adapted eyes.
Some people like forward clickies on the regular interface... half presses to reach the mode you want, then click to lock it in, but I don't see the point. You can use a regular interface of signaling though - just set the bezel on moonlight, a hair shy of Turbo, and then press sideways on the bezel with your thumb.
Thanks to all the folks for their suggestions and recommendations, and especially to reppans for answering my numerous questions. Looks like I've found my new EDC: QPA-G2 on a 14500 (actually a QP2A-G2 head on 1xAA body, since it seems EVERYONE is out of the QPA-G2). Just got it today and have been testing it against the other lights (unfortunately, it's still daytime. Can't wait for it to get dark tonight).
For anyone interested in something similar, on 1xEneloop, the QPA-G2 is noticeably brighter than my old Fenix L2D Rebel Head on L1D body. While the Fenix's hotspot was visibly brighter than the Zebralight SC80's hotspot (the Fenix's hotspot is visible within the ZL's hotspot while white wall hunting), in actual outdoor use, the SC80 puts out so many more lumens than the Fenix, the difference was not really noticeable. The SC80 just lit up a much bigger area. The QPA-G2's hotspot is brighter than the Fenix's (and SC80's) though, even when they're all on an even playing field, running freshly charged Eneloops. On a 14500, the QPA-G2 is quite a lot brighter.
The QPA-G2 on 1xEneloop has a brighter/tighter hotspot than the QP2A-X on 2xEneloops. It also appears to throw better when comparing on my kitchen wall. QP2A-G2 vs. QP2A-X, both on 2xEneloops, the G2's hotspot is definitely brighter. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the G2 is brighter on 14500 than it is on 2xEneloops since I can't test that side-by-side. The QP2A-G2 head on 1xAA body running a 14500 DEFINITELY has a brighter hotspot than the QP2A-X though.
Unlike the Fenix (and a myriad of other 1xAA lights) which direct drive their LED when run on a 14500, the QPA-G2 does retain all modes. I have noticed one odd thing about the QPA-G2 on the 14500 though. If I turn the light Off and then On anytime sooner than 20 seconds, it appears to 'memorize' the last setting and register the On button press as a mode toggle. Eg. if I have the light on Turbo, then turn it Off, turning it On again before 20 seconds have elapsed will turn it on in Tactical Strobe mode. Likewise if I have it on Moonlight mode and turn it Off, if I turn it On before 20 seconds have elapsed, it will turn on in the next mode (Low). On an Eneloop, it would only do this if I turned the Light Off, then On in under 3-4 seconds. If I waited longer than that, the light would turn on in the default setting (Turbo with head tightened, Moonlight with head loosened).
Aside from that little quirk, it's a great light on a 14500.
BTW, I also checked out the Nitecore TM11 (Tiny Monster 2000 lumen light) while I was at the store. Compared it to my Fenix TK41 (800-lumen version, not the newer 860-lumen). The TM11 is definitely a floody light. My TK41 would easily beat it as a thrower despite the TM11 putting out 2000 lumens to the TK41's 800 lumens.
Max
For anyone interested in something similar, on 1xEneloop, the QPA-G2 is noticeably brighter than my old Fenix L2D Rebel Head on L1D body. While the Fenix's hotspot was visibly brighter than the Zebralight SC80's hotspot (the Fenix's hotspot is visible within the ZL's hotspot while white wall hunting), in actual outdoor use, the SC80 puts out so many more lumens than the Fenix, the difference was not really noticeable. The SC80 just lit up a much bigger area. The QPA-G2's hotspot is brighter than the Fenix's (and SC80's) though, even when they're all on an even playing field, running freshly charged Eneloops. On a 14500, the QPA-G2 is quite a lot brighter.
The QPA-G2 on 1xEneloop has a brighter/tighter hotspot than the QP2A-X on 2xEneloops. It also appears to throw better when comparing on my kitchen wall. QP2A-G2 vs. QP2A-X, both on 2xEneloops, the G2's hotspot is definitely brighter. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the G2 is brighter on 14500 than it is on 2xEneloops since I can't test that side-by-side. The QP2A-G2 head on 1xAA body running a 14500 DEFINITELY has a brighter hotspot than the QP2A-X though.
Unlike the Fenix (and a myriad of other 1xAA lights) which direct drive their LED when run on a 14500, the QPA-G2 does retain all modes. I have noticed one odd thing about the QPA-G2 on the 14500 though. If I turn the light Off and then On anytime sooner than 20 seconds, it appears to 'memorize' the last setting and register the On button press as a mode toggle. Eg. if I have the light on Turbo, then turn it Off, turning it On again before 20 seconds have elapsed will turn it on in Tactical Strobe mode. Likewise if I have it on Moonlight mode and turn it Off, if I turn it On before 20 seconds have elapsed, it will turn on in the next mode (Low). On an Eneloop, it would only do this if I turned the Light Off, then On in under 3-4 seconds. If I waited longer than that, the light would turn on in the default setting (Turbo with head tightened, Moonlight with head loosened).
Aside from that little quirk, it's a great light on a 14500.
BTW, I also checked out the Nitecore TM11 (Tiny Monster 2000 lumen light) while I was at the store. Compared it to my Fenix TK41 (800-lumen version, not the newer 860-lumen). The TM11 is definitely a floody light. My TK41 would easily beat it as a thrower despite the TM11 putting out 2000 lumens to the TK41's 800 lumens.
Max
Good to hear you like the light.
Yeah, the long reset when using Li-ions is one of the XPG quark quirks... I hope they've fixed the pre-flash issue on your version (moonlight sometimes blasts max for a millisecond) though. Preflash was fixed on my XPG-S2 version, and the XML versions, which I prefer more for the floody beam, do not have either issue, and I was always wondering if these fixes would carry over to all the latest emitters.... sorry to hear they do not.
Yeah, the long reset when using Li-ions is one of the XPG quark quirks... I hope they've fixed the pre-flash issue on your version (moonlight sometimes blasts max for a millisecond) though. Preflash was fixed on my XPG-S2 version, and the XML versions, which I prefer more for the floody beam, do not have either issue, and I was always wondering if these fixes would carry over to all the latest emitters.... sorry to hear they do not.
Up All Night
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bluemax 1,
I think you will be impressed when the sun goes down. My Quark on a 14500 puts out as much light as my Jetbeam BC10 rated at 260 OTF. That's with the XP-G, the XP-G2 offers a 20% increase and many here say it's quite noticeable. Now for the somewhat divisive question......, how's the tint?
I think you will be impressed when the sun goes down. My Quark on a 14500 puts out as much light as my Jetbeam BC10 rated at 260 OTF. That's with the XP-G, the XP-G2 offers a 20% increase and many here say it's quite noticeable. Now for the somewhat divisive question......, how's the tint?
Not sure exactly how 'fixed' the pre-flash issue is on the G2, but I do notice pre-flash on Moonlight mode. Thus far, it doesn't seem as bad as on the Fenix. The QP2A-X didn't appear to have pre-flash on 2xAA's.
I don't see any markings on the lights themselves, it's just a little sticker on the box. What's to stop someone from placing a Gen2 sticker on a Gen1 box? I don't know.
BTW, what's the difference between S2 and G2?
Max
The tint on mine is actually pretty decent, even on the lower modes. It's a little cooler than the standard SC80 and has a touch of purple on the edges of the hotspot but the QP2A-X is definitely greener. With the human eye's natural Auto White Balance, the differences are quickly adapted to and only noticeable on a white wall beside each other.
When I first played with my various lights together while comparing hotspots and brightnesses, I had the distinct impression that the QP2A-X was greenish, but after double checking in response to your post, the QP2A-X was the first light I shone at the white wall and it seemed white enough, till I turned on the other lights. Without comparing them side-by-side, I wouldn't have been bothered by the X's tint too much.
*** You know, I had to rewrite this post 3 times due to subjective impressions of tint. I realized, the QPA-G2 is actually pretty similar in tint to the standard Cool White SC80. It subjectively appeared cooler because the hotspot is so much brighter. Running the 14500 powered G2 on High and the SC80 on Max made the hotspot intensities much closer, and under those conditions, the tint is quite similar; cool white with a hint of purple on the hotspots edges.
The QP2A-X looks OK on its own until the other lights are turned on, then it looks greenish. In contrast, the Luxeon Rebel equipped L2D head is warmer than all of them. It looks white until I compare it with the others, then it looks yellowish.
Max
The difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 2
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?275367-Mini-ML-XPG-vs-XPG2
The S2 was a limited edition, and a meany greeny that most people hated for the tint, but I agree with human white balance thing.... doesn't bother me too much except in side by side comparisons. The S2 only had a 180 lms max (2xAA) but was spec'd at like 1150 hrs on a 0.4 lm moonlight - longest runtime I've ever seen 4/7s quote. Never saw anyone post a testimonal to verify that though.
The pre-flash on the R5 was bad.... it was truly max for a millisec. I have tiny, like 1-2 lm, "pre-flash" on moonlight on my Quark S2 and XMLs and Eagletac D25A Clickies... I don't consider that pre-flash. Try the X on a 14500 and see if the reset thing is fixed too.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?275367-Mini-ML-XPG-vs-XPG2
The S2 was a limited edition, and a meany greeny that most people hated for the tint, but I agree with human white balance thing.... doesn't bother me too much except in side by side comparisons. The S2 only had a 180 lms max (2xAA) but was spec'd at like 1150 hrs on a 0.4 lm moonlight - longest runtime I've ever seen 4/7s quote. Never saw anyone post a testimonal to verify that though.
The pre-flash on the R5 was bad.... it was truly max for a millisec. I have tiny, like 1-2 lm, "pre-flash" on moonlight on my Quark S2 and XMLs and Eagletac D25A Clickies... I don't consider that pre-flash. Try the X on a 14500 and see if the reset thing is fixed too.
STR
Newly Enlightened
I'll be honest with you JetBeam is full of it regarding run times and lumen output. I own the PA10. Two of them. Even without the hype advertisement they are great lights and offer a wow factor better than any other single AA battery operated light I own. I also own the Protac 1A and I've had several others one of which I also like in the way of the D25 LE Ti and I like that one a lot also. It is brighter, the throw is weak and that is where I'd say it is lacking other than being on low and needing run through each level to get to the one you want most of the time. Oh and needing two hands to use it for the most part. Other than this its a great little light but in my opinion it is a little light and by that I mean a compromise light. Not the one you would like to carry but it will do. That is how I see the D25 after owning it. It will work. The JetBeam PA10 is a real light putting out real good wall of light coverage and it gives good throw on a fresh battery. When the throw drops is when it starts to suck and while I'm sure Jetbeam does not count that the fact is about the time you lose that throw is when I feel most guys will toss the battery so that is well before the light actually dies. Sure if you want to try to run it down it may last that long at what? 1 hour and 30 min. or something? Anyway, on 14500 Lithium Ion batteries you get great light for about 20 minutes with the Jetbeam and not much longer with the D25. The Jetbeam absorbs the heat much better and due to the bigger size of course and the thicker chunky build and thicker sidewalls.
The JetBeam burns up batteries if you like a good bright light but I love the light and rate it the best of the ones I've owned. It could be better certainly but its a great little light that is like carrying your own personal 40 watt bulb with you all the time.
Up All Night
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Lol, sorry brother! Didn't mean to open a Pandora's box on you. I've been there myself, going through light after light comparing tints, makes your head spin! Subjective it is, I've finally come to the conclusion that if a tint looks acceptable on its own without comparing it head to head with another light I can usually live with it.
That said, I do bring a reference light with me if I'm checking out a light at a retailer. I only take it out if the one I'm looking at has an obvious blue or green tint.
Gotta laugh, cuz as I'm typing this I have a dozen lights I'm checking against the ceiling!.......Again!
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Hey, thanks for the link. Easy way to tell if the light really has a G2 or not. Yep, my G2 is a G2 (gray square/die) and the SC80 is a 1G (green square/die)
Man... 48 days on 0.4 lumens is pretty impressive runtime if it's true. When you start getting past 20 days though, it's all good. It's hard to consider we're talking about continuous runtimes that long. I still remember my old incans that would drain batteries flat in a few hours when run continuously.
As far as the pre-flash goes, yes, it's very slight on the QPA-G2 on the 14500. Not obstrusive at all, and it doesn't mess with dark adaptation much. I do prefer the lower 0.12 lumens low of the SC80 on fully dark adapted eyes though vs ~0.2-0.3 lumens on the Quarks. With the Quarks, they put out enough light on the Moonlight modes that it takes a wee bit longer for full dark adaptation to return after turning the light off. The 0.12 lumen Moonlight mode on the SC80 only takes about 10-20 seconds for full dark adaptation to return after shutting it off (my night vision seems to be better than average, purely subjectively based on how well I see in the dark compared to other folks I'm around). Pretty amazing how quickly I've come to like Moonlight modes from not having any lights with them just a little while ago.
Lol, sorry brother! Didn't mean to open a Pandora's box on you. I've been there myself, going through light after light comparing tints, makes your head spin! Subjective it is, I've finally come to the conclusion that if a tint looks acceptable on it's own without comparing it head to head with another light I can usually live with it.
That said, I do bring a reference light with me if I'm checking out a light at a retailer. I only take it out if the one I'm looking at has an obvious blue or green tint.
Gotta laugh, cuz as I'm typing this I have a dozen lights I'm checking against the ceiling!.......Again!
LOL! CPF, turning Average Joe's into Great White Wall Hunters since its beginning.
Max
P.S. STR, thanks for the info, but I ended up crossing the D25 and PA10's off the list due to them direct driving their LEDs on 14500s. I ended up with the QPA-G2 because it produces significantly increased output on Turbo with the 14500, but still retains the usability of the low modes. I don't know what the PA10/RRT0-XML look like on a Li-ion (they claim a LOT of lumens). They sound like very bright lights, but based on the QP2A-X, it appears that XM-L emitters don't throw very well in small reflectors (which is to be expected considering how large the emitter is). The QP2A-G2 and QPA-G2 on 14500 out throw my QP2A-X.
The other thing I really liked about the Quark vs the RRT0-XML was the one-handed deployment, i.e. one button to turn the light On and switch modes with the same grip vs the On/Off button on one end and the rotary ring on the opposite end requiring one grip to turn the light on, then reversing the grip to use the rotary ring, or needing to use 2 hands to operate the light (plus the better low runtimes vs the Infinitely Variable type lights).
If HDS made a single AA G2 Rotary light that could produce the Max output of the ZL SC80 on 1xAA Eneloop + higher outputs on a 14500, I'd drop the $200 on one. Pretty good runtimes on lower modes, good brightness on High modes, rotary control and button on the same end for easy one-handed operation, and as tough as they come... but they don't make single AA lights.
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STR
Newly Enlightened
I have a friend with a tester and all I know is that when I bought my 3D Maglite and tested it with his lite it put out just what MagLite claimed it did. Well, not exactly but it was within like four lumens and probably due to the battery choice more than anything. Thats pretty accurate and honest in my opinion but I realize there are probably other ways to test light output. Why companies would use some method other than the user accessible ones is beyond me because when it says 650 lumens I expect it to be plus or minus but you know close to that would be nice. Really though in real output testing the same way you would test it yourself in all liklihood the PA10 puts out 331 lumens. We'll be kind and round up to call it a 340 Lumen light at best but 330 is a more accurate claim. That is the most I've ever squeezed out of mine with a Ultrafire 14500 900ma battery in it. Don't get me wrong I love the light, think the world of it actually but I'm not sure why a company would need to hype up a light already putting out great light. Overhyped for sure with the over the top claims and you would miss the multi settings. Thats why I rarely use a 14500 in my JB. I use it mostly on the 55 Lumen setting.
I also recall reading a review that tested the RRT0-XML and stated that the maximum draw on that light was unsafe for an ICR cell, and required an IMR cell, but would easily kill an IMR cell by running it down too low, which is why I decided to skip the Jetbeams for now. Yeah, overstating their claims may sell lights to folks who don't research their purchases beforehand, but it hurts their integrity with the people who do. Claiming super high output that the light is either incapable of producing, or is potentially unsafe to do so, doesn't really instill much consumer confidence in the company.
Max
