Color Rendition and Tint Comparison: Cree, Rebel, GDP, Nichia

[HighLumens]

thanks for this review!!!

 

[frosty]

Very informative. Thanks.

 

[STi]

Very nice! I Like the White tints and don't use my warmer lights much.

 

[BigBluefish]

Another great post, which needs to be made a sticky.

The cool white tints, sometimes with hints of purple and blue, are the only things that bug me about LEDs. I'm going to pick up an INOVA T1 which I believe has a K2 emitter, which has a very warm tint and see how I like that for outdoor use (camping/hiking),

Thanks again.

 

[chaoss]

For a very good posting of various tints.

 

[bodhran]

You sure can learn alot from a few pics. Thank you for taking the time and helping a noob like me. :thumbsup:

 

[selfbuilt]

Glad you are enjoying the pics - they do seem to represent what I see subjectively by eye fairly well.

Having played with the PAD-L (new Nichias) a bit during Earth Hour this weekend, I've come to appreciate the pics above being accurate (i.e. very "premium" cool white tint). Subjectively, the output seemed slightly warm to my eyes when examining it up close (i.e. in a small room). But when ceiling-bouncing over a wider area, I find it looks much like the pic above. I suspect there's yellow-blue tint variation across the individual emitter beams - i.e. cooler in the center, warmer in the spill (something like the reverse of GDP). This was subjectively giving me a slightly warm tint up close and a slightly cool tint off a ceiling bounce. It was just hard to tell originally due to multi-emitter setup in the PAD-L.

And good point about the modern K2 emitters, unfortunately I don't have one to test.

 

[Martin SH]

Thanks very much for the useful review. Its a subject that I am very interested in.

After reading a lot about warm tints on the forum I purchased a Malkoff M60LW(arm). and I have to say I personally dislike the tint. I am a photographer by profession, so colour (UK) balance is something I strive to get right. When compared to my Malkoff M60 the difference is marked, yellow and drab.

I realise that many people have been into flash lights for a long time and remember incandescents, but I have to say that I don't fully understand why overly warm tints are so popular. I may be missing something about the science but I fail to see why a warm tint should render colours better or be more piecing? I know the French used very warm headlights on their cars because it was perceived to be better in fog and mist, but this seems to be dying out now.

Very useful thread should be sticky!

Martin

 

[kaichu dento]

I was looking at the snow on some boulders here the other day and the sun was shining on them, giving a very warm glow. There were also areas of shade, which of course looked quite cool.

Conversations regarding incans often bring in the idea that natural light is made by the sun, which is warmly tinted, and therefore incans will be best, but it is so easy to see for oneself that areas shaded from the sun, or under moonlight, are not warmly tinted.

Just as natural light has a wide range of variances, so will peoples tastes in which they prefer. I had no thoughts of tint when I first came here to find one perfect light, but soon found myself wanting nothing but warm tints. Except a problem arose when I realized I had a few cool tinted lights that I really liked.

Now it has become clear, at least for myself, that I like a good range of tints, generally within the range of what we might see in nature with it's cool and warm tints, and all the way too the 'overly' warm incan tints as well. My point? Simply that it can be frustrating trying to match natural light with one single light source, and as such, we may as well choose tints the way we choose food, friends and flashlights; to each his own.

 

[Brizzler]

...
After reading a lot about warm tints on the forum I purchased a Malkoff M60LW(arm). and I have to say I personally dislike the tint.
...

If you ever want to sell the M60LW (assuming you haven't done so already) give me shout - I'm in the UK, too!

 

[NoFair]

Thanks very much for the useful review. Its a subject that I am very interested in.

After reading a lot about warm tints on the forum I purchased a Malkoff M60LW(arm). and I have to say I personally dislike the tint. I am a photographer by profession, so colour (UK) balance is something I strive to get right. When compared to my Malkoff M60 the difference is marked, yellow and drab.

I realise that many people have been into flash lights for a long time and remember incandescents, but I have to say that I don't fully understand why overly warm tints are so popular. I may be missing something about the science but I fail to see why a warm tint should render colours better or be more piecing? I know the French used very warm headlights on their cars because it was perceived to be better in fog and mist, but this seems to be dying out now.

Very useful thread should be sticky!

Martin

The big difference is outdoors at a bit longer distances where cool white leds give a washed out effect; browns and greens blend too much. With a warm tinted led the brown looks brown and green looks pretty green.

The colour isn't more correct, but it is easier to see how the terrain looks. A bit like using tinted shades to enhance contrasts.

Might also be how the white balance on the camera works with the different wavelengths of light issued from cool and warm tints..

Sverre

 

[McGizmo]

I am of the opinion that color rendition and tint are independent of each other enough that one can make false assumptions. I believe good color rendition requires the presence of a relatively full spectrum of light. Obvious tint can be the result of a full spectrum at a specific color temperature or it can be the result of a spike in the spectrum and even significant deficiencies in other bands of the spectrum. Our eyes integrate all available light reaching them and do not perceive a spectral distribution or differentiation.

I.E. on a white wall, you may have an obvious "yellow" light source. It might be a narrow band of yellow light such as from a yellow LED or it may be a very warm source of incandescent light. When these two sources are reflected off of a blue object, the results will be quite different in regards to the rendition of "blue".

Although incandescent sources may be weak in the blue range, relative to sunlight, they do produces some light in those bands. A LED source of similar color temperature likely produces much more blue light but is deficient, relative to the incandescent, when it comes to some of the greens and reds. There are objects and colors that will not be rendered the same under the incandescent light as compared to the LED light. Practically speaking, I believe one needs to consider the ability of color recognition as well as color rendition. In many cases, color recognition is all that is required and for that matter, object recognition alone may be all that is required.

When it comes to tints, we all may differ in our preferences. When it comes to color rendition, we may or may not need accurate or distinguishable color identification. If good color rendition comes at the expense of other considerations or features, one must decide where the priorities lie. At this point in the stage of LED development, I believe it is fair to say that good color rendition comes at the expense of reduction in flux. Further, many of the LED manufacturers, in catering to the market demand, have focused on color temperature alone and not put any great significance in the actual color rendition properties of the LED's. Much of the binning based on color temp, such as warm, neutral and cool white is based strictly on color temperature and there is no full spectrum or color rendering ability implied; although often assumed.

 

[selfbuilt]

I am of the opinion that color rendition and tint are independent of each other enough that one can make false assumptions. I believe good color rendition requires the presence of a relatively full spectrum of light. Obvious tint can be the result of a full spectrum at a specific color temperature or it can be the result of a spike in the spectrum and even significant deficiencies in other bands of the spectrum. Our eyes integrate all available light reaching them and do not perceive a spectral distribution or differentiation.

I.E. on a white wall, you may have an obvious "yellow" light source. It might be a narrow band of yellow light such as from a yellow LED or it may be a very warm source of incandescent light. When these two sources are reflected off of a blue object, the results will be quite different in regards to the rendition of "blue".

Although incandescent sources may be weak in the blue range, relative to sunlight, they do produces some light in those bands. A LED source of similar color temperature likely produces much more blue light but is deficient, relative to the incandescent, when it comes to some of the greens and reds. There are objects and colors that will not be rendered the same under the incandescent light as compared to the LED light. Practically speaking, I believe one needs to consider the ability of color recognition as well as color rendition. In many cases, color recognition is all that is required and for that matter, object recognition alone may be all that is required.

When it comes to tints, we all may differ in our preferences. When it comes to color rendition, we may or may not need accurate or distinguishable color identification. If good color rendition comes at the expense of other considerations or features, one must decide where the priorities lie. At this point in the stage of LED development, I believe it is fair to say that good color rendition comes at the expense of reduction in flux. Further, many of the LED manufacturers, in catering to the market demand, have focused on color temperature alone and not put any great significance in the actual color rendition properties of the LED's. Much of the binning based on color temp, such as warm, neutral and cool white is based strictly on color temperature and there is no full spectrum or color rendering ability implied; although often assumed.

Very well put. :thumbsup:

I don't want to hotlink to anyone else's images, but for those interested in actual spectrophotometer analyses of LEDs (and other sources of light), there are lots of good examples posted in The_LED_Museum's old threads: Spectrographic charts and Part II.

 

[Blindasabat]

The French had done studies to show that warmer tint (slightly yellow in this case) was better for car headlights, not just perceived. Glare of oncoming cars and cutting through mist was improved as well as depth perception. When the EU formed, the French studies and data were lost in the rushed mass consolidation of rules and regulations. Lost in the crowd, sadly. They were able to demonstrate real advantages in reaction time, but perception of everyone else was too hard to overcome as quickly as needed to make it into the standards. <<Edit: Oh, and the non-French car companies (German) did not want to do what French companies said to do... cost too much to change, yada, yada garbage. >>

I know the French used very warm headlights on their cars because it was perceived to be better in fog and mist, but this seems to be dying out now.

The "Blue blocker" amber lenses in driving glasses were shown to increase contrast by 'blocking' some of the blue seen in the cool night light and from oncoming headlights. There is a visible glare reduction as well. This is backed up with research by Ray-Ban and other sunglass companies decades ago, which is why they came out with yellow and amber aviator glasses.

I don't care as much about accurate color - like the French - than I do about depth perception and contrast. In any transportation (car, plane, biking, even hiking over rough terrain) depth perception & contrast are more important than color accuracy. That is why I like warmer tints over 'pure' white tints (which still have tints when used in sunlight anyway) even though the look of cooler tints is more impressive to the neophyte bystander and even myself most of the time, until I compare them while in motion - hiking or riding through the woods on a mountain bike.

The demonstrated advantages of Neutral (Cree 3X to 4X) and mildly warm (Cree 5X, 6X), but not incan warm (7X, 8X) tints are too hard to pass up. Though 7X & 8X are still better in mist & fog.

 

[kaichu dento]

The French had done studies to show that warmer tint (slightly yellow in this case) was better for car headlights, not just perceived. Glare of oncoming cars and cutting through mist was improved as well as depth perception. When the EU formed, the French studies and data were lost in the rushed mass consolidation of rules and regulations. Lost in the crowd, sadly. They were able to demonstrate real advantages in reaction time, but perception of everyone else was too hard to overcome as quickly as needed to make it into the standards. <<Edit: Oh, and the non-French car companies (German) did not want to do what French companies said to do... cost too much to change, yada, yada garbage. >>

The "Blue blocker" amber lenses in driving glasses were shown to increase contrast by 'blocking' some of the blue seen in the cool night light and from oncoming headlights. There is a visible glare reduction as well. This is backed up with research by Ray-Ban and other sunglass companies decades ago, which is why they came out with yellow and amber aviator glasses.

I don't care as much about accurate color - like the French - than I do about depth perception and contrast. In any transportation (car, plane, biking, even hiking over rough terrain) depth perception & contrast are more important than color accuracy. That is why I like warmer tints over 'pure' white tints (which still have tints when used in sunlight anyway) even though the look of cooler tints is more impressive to the neophyte bystander and even myself most of the time, until I compare them while in motion - hiking or riding through the woods on a mountain bike.

The demonstrated advantages of Neutral (Cree 3X to 4X) and mildly warm (Cree 5X, 6X), but not incan warm (7X, 8X) tints are too hard to pass up. Though 7X & 8X are still better in mist & fog.

That is a real bummer that the research got wasted but at least we know that there are people working on it, even if behind the scenes at present. It offers some hope that rules will change sometime in the near future...

Your last sentence separating tints in an easy to understand format like this really helps to visualize differences and I find myself getting more and more interested in 6x, 7x ranges. :huh:

 

[saabgoblin]

Hello Selfbuilt, I hope that you don't mind me saying that you ROCK my friend. Thank you so much for all of the fantastic information and reviews that you post, you are truly a one of a kind!

 

[Fatso]

Read this over 100 times and still is the best neutral/ cool comparison yet..
Great work..

 

[selfbuilt]

Read this over 100 times and still is the best neutral/ cool comparison yet..
Great work..

Thanks. Wow, can't believe it's been over 2 years since this thread was active - time flies.

FYI, for those looking for a few more outdoor shots, I also did a comparison for the 4Sevens Mini tints around a year ago:
4Sevens Mini Tint Comparison - Warm, Neutral, Cool White - BEAMSHOTS & RUNTIMES!

 

[mbig]

Thanks. Wow, can't believe it's been over 2 years since this thread was active - time flies.

FYI, for those looking for a few more outdoor shots, I also did a comparison for the 4Sevens Mini tints around a year ago:
4Sevens Mini Tint Comparison - Warm, Neutral, Cool White - BEAMSHOTS & RUNTIMES!

Thank you and the OP for your shots.
Really important to me.

I'm curious to know how the XM-L T6 is compared to past 'Cool Whites'. Hopefuilly a little warmer.
I hate Spooky Blue.

 

[selfbuilt]

I'm curious to know how the XM-L T6 is compared to past 'Cool Whites'. Hopefuilly a little warmer.
I hate Spooky Blue.

As always, it is something of a lottery what you will get in "cool white", unless the manufacturer specifies a tint bin or color temperature. The XM-L T6 (which is an output bin) can come in any tint shade of cool white (also available in neutral white). Can't say I've seen too many "spooky blues" lately (maybe the occassional green meany or dusty rose, though ).

This thread revival reminds me - I have a couple of recent 4Sevens Neutral whites on my desk to compare (Q123-2 X and Preon 2). I'll be updating my original cool white reviews of those lights with new pics soon.

Oh, and :welcome: