Corona Virus... the second wave

[Kestrel]

I challenge everyone to watch this video [edit: link deleted] and still believe that this in not a scam of epic proportions. So much verifiable facts and real science presented in this video that if you persist in believing all the malarkey that will end up being the end of life as we have known and a nightmare for you and everyone.

OK;

-----

"Most people won't even know they have this thing." <- /any/ talking head can say something like this.
But supplying /zero/ supporting statistics behind that blatant statement? A preview of how weak his presentation will be right there.

His main point from ~2:00 until ~halfway through is anti-lockdown; "What a sick deranged cult this is".
Bold words; but without supporting those very inflammatory words, he undermines the strength he hopes to build for his position.

"[Sweden] was told 'such-and-such' [and then it didn't turn out so bad]". No citation provided for the supposedly- over-the-top warning.
Of course he easily then dismantles his inaccurate representation of the other side of the argument.

"The media has distorted this so badly"; /How/ badly ? No supporting citation.

-----

Getting into the meat of the video, his main argument is a classic strawman argument:

"We were told that if we wore masks, this thing would be over quickly"; um no, masks have not been sold as this sort of panacea.

He graphs the mask mandate vs cases (through Europe), and attempts to show that mask wearing doesn't have an effect on cases.
But he makes no effort whatsoever to isolate for other variables. What is the degree of compliance ? Voluntary proactive citizens doing a good job before the mandate ? Did mask wearing actually increase after the mandate ? What about travel restrictions ? Comparison with South Korea or Japan ? (crickets)

His only non-European supporting data for this argument is four counties in Tennessee - seriously ! Are you friggin' kidding me ??
Am I supposed to assume that four counties in TN represent the entirety of the US and /all/ of Asia (from which he conveniently takes no data at all).

The deal with all of the above is this - he builds a weak straw man argument, then proceeds to cherry-pick data to support his teardown of it.

He mocks Slate magazine, and we're supposed to believe that represented /all media/ - so we're supposed to throw all media reporting out ??

His concluding statement: "At one point or another, you have to assess your own level of risk and live the one life you get."

Well, duh :duh2:; Unfortunately that common-sense, 'Chinese Fortune-Cookie' perspective is completely divorced from the amateur-night theatrics that he attempts to pass off as solid arguments.

-----

Bottom line, you suggest that the whole thing is a 'scam of epic proportions' and use this weak-*** narrow-focus video (anti-lockdown, and masks not having an apparently-significant effect) to support that argument ?

That's it - I gave it a shot & watched your suggested video, and it utterly fails to support your broad brush generalizations that you've been trumpeting here for all this time.
Please note that any further nonsense such as this will be summarily deleted, at a minimum.

I am 100% with Empath on this; find another forum to spread this claptrap - it will no longer be tolerated on CPF.
I am only taking this hard of a line after evaluating the value of this cited presentation - and found it lacking.

Best regards,

 

[Kestrel]

For those who would rather not go through my longer post above; what seems to be the main point of the presenter begins with the statement, and I quote:

"We were told that if we wore masks, this thing would be over quickly" <- setting up a 'straw man' argument, not representative of the general scientific consensus in that regard.
He then proceeds to dismantle that argument - surprise surprise.

If an amateur-night presentation such as this is supposed to convince us that it is all a "scam of epic proportions" (your words), it totally fails to deliver on that promise.

Please desist with trying to pass off substandard content as something worthy of membership attention.

 

[bigburly912]

I still like his drive shafts.

 

[Poppy]

Kestrel,
When I quoted matrix... I made sure NOT to include a link to the video he posted a link to, because the video will get higher SEO rankings when there are more links to it from other sites.

I didn't even watch it, but knew from matrix's introduction, I didn't want to do anything to promote it.

Poppy.

BTW... thanks for taking the position that you have.
I don't want to see this crap propagated on our site.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

"We were told that if we wore masks, this thing would be over quickly" <- setting up a 'straw man' argument, not representative of the general scientific consensus in that regard.

He also doesn't control for climate and activities, i.e. cooler weather causing more people to congregate indoors again. The combination of poor mask compliance and large crowds is a significant factor.

 

[ledbetter]

I find it funny that people are responding to anyone named "matrixshaman" in a serious way.

 

[turbodog]

After the first thread got so heated, off topic, etc I was hesitant about this one. So far I'm pleasantly surprised. I suggest we drop the post-du-jour and move on. Kestrel's response has said enough.

 

[idleprocess]

I suggest we drop the post-du-jour and move on.

I consider it settled until the poster responds. Although we've got another venue better suited to that avenue of discussion.

 

[orbital]

...Please desist with trying to pass off substandard content as something worthy of membership attention.

+

Kestrel, since the Corona threads end up as just incessant diarrhea,

please put all those threads in the 'basement'.

the place would smell alot better

 

[KITROBASKIN]

+

Kestrel, since the Corona threads end up as just incessant diarrhea,

please put all those threads in the 'basement'.

the place would smell alot better

Throw out the wheat as well as the chaff? Come on. We just benefitted from not wasting time on Corona-Clickbait that gets the juices flowing for certain people. Other members bring up valuable perspectives that are sorely absent in the minds of many.

Lockdown Fatigue: that is what is seen here. Now the state of New Mexico is shuttering close-contact businesses until the end of the month. Some schools that were in-person have gone remote. Current hospitalization rates are more than twice the amount from the worst of early summer. Monday morning armchair quarterbacks question whether a less stringent initial lockdown might not have later caused such fatigue and defiance. At least leadership was not so strident this time; "Make plans for a different kind of Thanksgiving – one without non-household members." . Right before Halloween, those of us who agree to get Amber Alerts on our cellphones got a health alert alarm to not go trick or treating; 'Stay home...'

Speaking to a parent of our son's friend (that we have not seen for maybe a year) explained that her (usually healthy) husband definitely had the serious symptoms for weeks but recovered (struggling to breathe, fever, inability to hold down or retain food, etc) He got a test but never heard results. He never went to a hospital or saw a doctor. Neither she nor her daughter suffered. I believe in the accuracy of her statements, and wonder how many other people have avoided medical care after infection.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

those of us who agree to get Amber Alerts on our cellphones got a health alert alarm to not go trick or treating; 'Stay home...'.

They triggered an Amber Alert for that? I understand the need to get the word out, but this seems like it's not what the system was intended for. Hmm.

Like many other states, our governor is considering additional lockdowns again. Yes it's fatiguing, but we now have FDA approval for one of the two monoclonal antibody treatments with an expected approval for the other one shortly. I'm starting to see a light at the end of this tunnel.

 

[deadend]

I know it does not sound very promising but i dont think we are ever going to be done with this. i mena look all the deaths each day. what hope there is ?

 

[jtr1962]

If an amateur-night presentation such as this is supposed to convince us that it is all a "scam of epic proportions" (your words), it totally fails to deliver on that promise.

Please desist with trying to pass off substandard content as something worthy of membership attention.

As one who has argued with many of these covid conspiracy theorists, the common thread is that the "evidence" they present doesn't hold up to even casual scrutiny as you found out. Also, the biggest hole here is how do you suddenly have 200 countries cooperating to perpetuate a conspiracy when historically it's hard to get even a few of them to agree on the same things? If countries cooperated on that level we would have had world peace decades ago.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

This series of tweets from an ICU nurse is exasperating. There are Covid patients in her ICU, gasping for air, at the same time denying that they can have it because it's a "hoax." What do you say to these people?

 

[Lynx_Arc]

This series of tweets from an ICU nurse is exasperating. There are Covid patients in her ICU, gasping for air, at the same time denying that they can have it because it's a "hoax." What do you say to these people?

You do know that sometimes Covid makes people delirious don't you?

 

[PhotonWrangler]

You do know that sometimes Covid makes people delirious don't you?

Well that is a valid point. Not sure when the delirium kicks in.

 

[Kestrel]

This series of tweets from an ICU nurse is exasperating. There are Covid patients in her ICU, gasping for air, at the same time denying that they can have it because it's a "hoax." What do you say to these people?

My politeness restrains me from posting the first few things that came to mind.

 

[bigburly912]

My politeness restrains me from posting the first few things that came to mind.

Her Twitter is interesting........

 

[turbodog]

Her Twitter is interesting........

Yes... real 'boots on the ground' info and feeling.

Feel I should point out something. Some of her tweets are referencing South Dakota. A little while back they were patting themselves on the back for beating/avoiding/etc c-19.

I ran their numbers and saw clear exponential spread. At that time I knew they hadn't 'won'. The game had started and they were already losing but did not know it (yet).

 

[Poppy]

This series of tweets from an ICU nurse is exasperating. There are Covid patients in her ICU, gasping for air, at the same time denying that they can have it because it's a "hoax." What do you say to these people?

I could only see the first tweet, and I feel badly for her. IMO she has not been prepared for this kind of sh#t.

Certainly those who have been raised by alcoholics, drug addicts, or other abusive parents, may have devised a detachment to others emotional distress. There are others who may be brilliant in their field yet unemotional. And overall unaffected by emotion.

I suggest that this class of patient be transferred to those whose life circumstances, or genetic composition, who can handle this better, have the aberrant patient transferred to them. It is my position that we need to protect the provider of care.