Curiosity got the best of me; will Ceramic Metal Halide do in modified Cyclops Thor?

[Dr. Mario]

Alright, the curiosity got the best of me (and killed a cat), I wonder if Osram PowerBall ceramic metal halide rated for 35 Watts (or should I go for 20 Watts one?) will do in Cyclops Thor X Colossus spotlight. (I suppose the diffused arc tube made of Aluminum Oxide would spread the light around as to suit the reflector without having to fumble with it too much trying to find the sweet spot.)

Since Cyclops Thor is going to be modified with both Bioenno Power 12 Volts 6 Amps / hour Lithium Iron Phosphate battery pack and a 35 Watts HID conversion kit, I felt this group (Homemade and Modified Flashlight Discussion) may be appropriate - if not, I may request to have this thread moved to HID thread.

If the Osram PowerBall ceramic metal halide can be used with automotive HID ballast (which it should be fine, although I had to ask as there bound to be somebody on here who have attempted this), alright, I can go ahead and modify the H4 Halogen base ripped off from a discarded Halogen bulb to accommodate the Halogen G4.5 bulb socket so this bulb can be used therein.

 

[sven_m]

Alright, the curiosity got the best of me (and killed a cat),

I wonder if Osram PowerBall ceramic metal halide rated for 35 Watts (or should I go for 20 Watts one?) will do in Cyclops Thor X Colossus spotlight. (I suppose the diffused arc tube made of Aluminum Oxide would spread the light around as to suit the reflector without having to fumble with it too much trying to find the sweet spot.)

Interesting question. So, why exactly do you want the huge reflector?

I ask so because you don't need a wide reflector for lumens output. Diameter is only necessary if you want high spot lux, or if you want a spot as tiny as possible (due to the higher focal lengths, but then you also want a tiny light source). However, the power ball has a much lower luminance than the auto HID. That's no disadvantage for it's original purpose, where it tries to shine with good color rendition and long life. But spot lux depend 1:1 on luminance.

While an automotive HID has an average luminance of about 60-70 cd/mm² and about 100-250 cd/mm² at the hot spots, the power ball 150 (HCI 150W/942 NDL) has about 18 cd/mm². The power star (quartz bulb) is clear and thus is brighter, about 45 cd/mm² in the center (I don't know the hot spots). I don't know the values for the smaller 35W powerball. You won't find luminance values in the data sheets. I measured them myself, but only for the 150W types (powerball, powerstar, not in english, but you might get the idea).
=> Using an automotive HID will result in roughly 5 to 10 times more spot lux

If the Osram PowerBall ceramic metal halide can be used with automotive HID ballast (which it should be fine, although I had to ask as there bound to be somebody on here who have attempted this), [...]

Ignition voltage: The data sheet mentions ~3.6kV (max 5kV) ignition voltage. That's little in comparison to auto HID, which has to be hot-restrikeable and thus may need a much higher ignition voltage of up to 20-30 kV. This should work fine.

Running current: An auto HID ballast tries to run the bulb with 85V and thus 0.41 A, while the powerball is specified with 0.53 A. Thus it may be a bit less bright with an auto HID ballast, if it works otherwise.


In fact I'd really like to see such a power ball cyclops: If you use the 942 color type, it might give a very nice spot, similar to halogen but much wider and with a really smooth profile.
If you want much spot lux, then you will be much happier with an auto HID. As you mentioned, you'll have the hassle of focusing. But it might not be as hard as you suspect.

 

[Dr. Mario]

Good answer. As for huge reflector, it's the space inside the Cyclops Thor that I can stuff that particular inverter ballast, DROK 7 + 1 functions panel-mount OLED DMM (so I can figure out how much juice is left in the battery), and Lithium-ion battery pack. I also may have to modify H4 Halogen base for the adjustable Halogen socket adapter (so I can adjust the Powerball CMH bulb position to give me the best sweet spot for this HID spotlight), hence the space behind the reflector in this spotlight.

As for surface lux, this is a good point. However, in my thinking, that diffuse surface helps with focusing somehow with the sacrifice of the bulb brightness (Powerball bulb is apparently still plentiful bright when run at rated power). I also am still trying to find which internet store is likely to carry 20 - 35 Watts Powerball bulb (942 model, of course, as I don't really like warm white as much - my eyes prefer 4,200 - 6,000 Kelvins for numbers of reasons, the most significance being the color rendition).

I'd still experiment anyhow as the ceramic metal halide bulbs are quite forgivable as far as HID ballast specification is concerned (the ballast I got from Kensun reseller on Amazon is controlled by the firmware thereon, possibly via Atmel AVR-8 microcontroller inside - which is made apparent via amperage current measurement from ignition to completed warmup phase). The current Xenon-filled metal halide bulbs I have came with the kit are H3, so I have to be creative in mounting somehow, until I get the Powerball CMH bulb and appropriate socket to install in Cyclops.

 

[Dr. Mario]

Got the Cyclops. I will finish up the mod tomorrow, with the automotive Xenon metal halide bulb installed. I did all the wiring, by the way.

EDITED: Uploaded a picture - the DROK micro DMM is handy for monitoring of Lithium-ion battery pack whenever it's in use (there are two illuminated rocker switches which allows me to check for charge on the battery before attempting to light it up).

Here's the DROK OLED DMM, installed in where the charger ports used to be - note Amp / hour and Watt /hour being elapsed, I was testing the HID setup on this flashlight.

 

[Dr. Mario]

Mod is all done. Now, next stop is Ceramic Metal Halide bulb mod. I will wait until next month so I can buy a bulb and socket.

 

[Dr. Mario]

All done. I have been putting off ceramic metal halide bulb mod for far too long, until last year, that I decided to just grab the ceramic metal halide bulb setup and it works (had to get better HID ballast, especially Hylux A2088, so CMH bulbs completely warm up best). Both 39 Watts Sylvania Osram Powerball and General Electric ConstantColor ceramic metal halide bulbs works just fine with Hylux A2088 and any similar car HID headlight inverter ballasts.

Consider the question answered, had to try it on my own.

 

[Dr. Mario]

And yes the CMH setup here is as bright as the original H4 140 Watts Halogen bulb, but far more efficient. 3,000 Kelvin version of CMH is just like the original Halogen bulb in term of color rendition that we usually see with the Halogen bulbs.

4,200 Kelvin version is hard to find. Maybe it was too late to get them. At least I managed to get the 4,200 Kelvins version of General Electric ConstantColor CMH bulb (I have both 4,200 and 3,000 Kelvins CMH bulbs that I used before trying the Powerball CMH bulb which did much better in the large reflector than General Electric ones, especially in a large Halogen spotlight reflector - and I will keep them as a spare since I intentionally chose the G8.5 Halogen bulb socket so it's easier to swap the bulbs). I would love to know where I can find the 942 (CRI of 90, 4,200 Kelvins) version of the 39 Watts Osram Powerball CMH bulb in G8.5 / T4.5 format.