Well sir I respect Saabluster but DEFT EDC can not compare in throw with DBS V3 aspheric... And he personally confirmed that...
Saabluster makes an excellent drivers, and he probably put his aspherical lenses into cheap skyrag body...
The main reason I did not bought DEFT EDC LR is because I have 10 $ cheap Sky ray flashlight at home with no anodized threads and build quality is very poor especially comparing it to quality flashlight as DBS... And he used sky ray as a host...
Not to mention U can not upgrade it... Or maybe U can but U will sure pay for that...
Of course he put a lot of work into that flashlight! I appreciate that! Better driver and his aspherical lenses..., and maybe other stuff that I don't see because I don't have it...
Saabluster we all seen that U have skyray body and U changed everything on that cheap flashlight and U made top P60 thrower...
The main reason I did not bought DEFT EDC LR is because I have 10 $ cheap Sky ray flashlight at home with no anodized threads and build quality is very poor especially comparing it to quality flashlight as DBS... And he used sky ray as a host...
It is Skyray. Yes that is the host we use for the current lights. I know it is hard for you to understand why a light could cost so much when the starting point is a cheap light. When you actually are on this side of things it is crystal clear. There are so many aspects to this that I don't have the time to type them all out but will try to cover a few.
I should say that it has always been my intention to give the absolute best performance in the world for any given packages size restraints and to do so without ripping off the consumers. I have never had the money to buy all the super nice lights I have seen here on CPF. Most specifically the custom lights that I drooled over. I have always wanted people like me to be able to afford something nice and set out to make that happen.
With limited resources and a small niche market that is the dedicated thrower scene it seemed that the lowest cost way to make lights was to use a host. The problem is I have high standards. My original lights which noone has yet to beat were made by me at varying degrees of money loss to me. They took so much time to make that I sold them for less than it cost me to make them. In the end that was $425 and I was
still losing money and the base host for that light cost me about $15.
There are so many things that you have to account for that you just don't realize looking from the outside in and even from the inside as I found out. I resisted raising prices despite losses because I was sure that I would be able to find a way to make it work somehow and based my prices, not on how much work it took me, but how much I thought/hoped I could get it down to at some point in the future. That point never came.
I turned out some absolutely
fabulous lights though even though the starting point was a cheap Chinese light. To make profit on that light I really needed to charge between $800 and $1000. The lights were mind-blowingly complicated to build. The carbon fiber bezel had a multi-core design and had special tabs that had to be delicately welded to the metal bezel. I could go on and on about how insanely difficult they were. After all that work all it took was a little mistake to ruin the whole thing and it was wasted. I made my own lenses for crying out loud! Some of those lenses would take an
entire day to polish up right. You can't make money when it takes you a day just for a lens.
Anyways I have learned a few things over the years, albeit slowly, and with the current lights we now break even. Hallelujah! The current lights although not sporting the fancy carbon fiber still take a massive amount of work. First off you have to keep in mind that although the bodies are cheap they come with a hidden price. You can't
use all of them. I have a huge box full of bodies that I can never sell because they have issues significant enough that I don't want my name attached to them. That costs money.
Then the ones that make it through that qualification process still have to be processed to make them into premium lights. The bodies are given a machined finish which takes quite a while. I had to make a special little tabletop lathe for this process as well. The switches are improved to help them be more reliable. Quite a few of the switches are just trashed because they don't "feel" right.
We make our own grip rings as the ones that come with the light are junk. That requires a lot of work in and of itself. The making of master parts and then molds. The upkeep of the molds and cost of casting labor and materials. This is in-house stuff because the numbers are not high enough to go source super high quality rings from someone in the thousands. All the components are of the highest quality including the high dollar ultra pure copper we use and the CNC machining required to make these parts. Solid to copper bonding and then a relatively difficult step of soldering wires onto the backside of the LED. But your not done yet. You still have to pot around the LED to make sure the solder joints hold reliably for life. Then a hole has to be drilled and tapped for ground. Once this is all done they get processed to become LR LEDs and a whole lot end up getting destroyed in the process. Each one that gets destroyed is money down the drain. You can't get that time and money back.
The tuning of the light is very difficult as well. The pill has to be set in the body with an interference fit and tuned up and down in three axis. You start by guessing where you think it should be and then put the head on and see how it actually performs. It is almost never right so you pull the head off and on several times just trying to assure it is just right. The lenses are also a problem in that I can't use all of those either. I think it is about 25% we don't use because they don't perform well enough.
We spend time on the threads deburring them and generally making them buttery smooth. Far more so than at least the DBS that was sent to me. The threads are better designed and less prone to cross threading on our lights. The DBS has threads that are too fine.
Now add on all the incidentals. Water, power, lubes, sand paper, various chemicals, paper towels, screws, epoxies, shop upkeep, o-rings, tools, R+D, warranties, customer service, website, paypal fees, health insurance, a $15,000 CNC machine and more. Trust me if you were on my side you would have a lot more respect for what it takes to create our lights.
My few question goes directly for you. Why did you expected that all Deerelight DBS components need to be in its original state in order that you can modify it and made new improved flashlight?
Again you have to understand the business side. Yes I could make significant alterations and make it close to perfect but every alteration costs money. So then the question becomes is the cost of the alteration worth it? If it costs more to make it right than it would have been to have an entire light made to your specification in the first place the decision is pretty clear. I finally came to the conclusion that what it would take to make right for it to be worthy of my name was not worth it.
- U could simply put your aspherical lenses if you don't like original ones which are BTW pretty good and U claimed that it throws 200 kcd with your XPC so they can not be bad...
Finding the right lens is one of the single hardest parts about designing a new light like this. They are not easy to get. The problem with sourcing fom China is the quality is hit or miss. You may in some cases as I found out have to buy 4 lenses to get one good one. So no it is not a "simple" matter.
- U could put better and improved non brass switch inside if you don't like original one
Yes I could but that would cost money. And frankly it is not simply a new brass switch that is needed but a redesign of the way it works. I know how to engineer it properly but it is not necessarily worth it.
- Than Thread question Skyray vs Deerelight threads can not compare because DBS threads are 10 times better. Skyrag has cheap non anodized and soft threads and as I have skyray S and I don't have DEFT EDC I don't know how U improved that threads...
Yes I agree the Skyray as it comes has inferior threads.
Our lights however have better threads than the DBS. Anodizing of the threads does not quality make. Surefire makes some of the highest quality threads in the business and they are not anodized.
So U could order DBS without lenses and without switch and price for U would be probably miserable(few $)... And than U could add better aspheric lenses, better driver and better switch(or simply put off spring from switch)... I don't see problem...
But I'm still left with a light that has threads I don't like. I can't change that. Not to mention that I think the light is ugly. There are a lot of factors involved and you will just have to trust me that the numbers just don't work. It is not as simple as you think it is. Not with my standards anyway.
But at the begining of this threads U made some boundaries claiming that DBS aspherical can throw 200 000 klux meter with your XPC driver...
So now if U will made small flashlight that will throw that far I will not have nothing to add even if the host will be sky ray...
I can do what I said and more. But lux numbers are only one facet of a light. It needs to be well designed all around and that is what I shoot for not simply a number. As I said in a post just above try sticking a neutral emitter into that DBS and then let's see who wins? Try carrying that DBS in your pocket vs mine. Size matters.
