Department issue flashlight?

MicroE

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Virgo--Good points. However, the SF catalog claims that the FBI issues a Z2 to every new FBI agent. That probably amounts to a few hundred a year, though. We have not seen representation in this thread from US Marshals, US Cutoms, USPS Police Immigration, etc. There may be a market that we don't know about.----Marc
 

kev1-1

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Bit of topic...I saw a picture in a magazine the other day of the Italian police's elite special forces unit...they had AA Mags!
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DieselDave

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Originally posted by kev1-1:
Bit of topic...I saw a picture in a magazine the other day of the Italian police's elite special forces unit...they had AA Mags!
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe they use the AA Mag because they don't want to find the suspect!
 

brightnorm

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[ QUOTE ]
virgo said:
....I've been waiting for a police officer to say "Surefire something or other"... I have never seen an LEO (anywhere in Texas)with a Surefire. That's why I can't figure out how LEOs are supposed to be such a large part of their market. For that matter, unless they are special forces of some type, I've never known anyone in any branch of the military to be issued one either.....
...

[/ QUOTE ]

OTOH I have seen news photos where soldiers esp Special Forces had SF's mounted on their rifles. In fact there was a Newsweek or Time cover during the Afghanistan fighting featuring a Sp Forces man with an M3 equivalant on his rifle.

But those are only a few examples. It would be interesting to have your question answered more thoroughly by Surefire.

Brightnorm
 

Size15's

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SureFire's market is Special Forces. Shotguns and MP5's of SWAT more often then not have SureFire WeaponLights.

The LEO market is not SureFire target since SureFire's tools require training to be most effective and LEO don't have the time or resources to train like Special Forces do.

Al
 

shiftd

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Forgive me for my ignorance, but what is LEO?
thanks
 

paulr

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Law Enforcement Officer, i.e. normal civilian police mostly.
 

FalconFX

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Although SureFire's market may be geared towards the military, I don't see them dropping their non-military market anytime soon.

If it wasn't profitable for them to keep their non-military market share or pour R/D money into that department, they'd scrap it in an instant...
 

shiftd

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LEO = COPs = Police
Right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif
If yes, why people prefer to be called LEO
If not, What is the difference?
thanks again
 

FalconFX

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Well, security guards aren't the police, but they can be considered law enforcement... US Marshals and the FBI aren't military, but they're not police either... Are they then law enforcement officers?
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paulr

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I think of security guards as not being LEO's. US Marshals and FBI agents, hmmm, maybe.
 

Larry1582

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Our department does not issue flashlights. They require plastic or poly type lights and lot of the officers carry the Polystinger or Streamlight SL20-XP. However, you have some carrying dollar store flashlights.
 

PieThatCorner

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[ QUOTE ]
Size15s said:
SureFire's market is Special Forces. Shotguns and MP5's of SWAT more often then not have SureFire WeaponLights.

The LEO market is not SureFire target since SureFire's tools require training to be most effective and LEO don't have the time or resources to train like Special Forces do.

Al

[/ QUOTE ]

I beg to differ Al. The law enforcement community is a huge part of the SureFire market. In fact, look back to the original foundations of the Laser Products Company before its DBA name was changed to SureFire. After the shootout with the Symbionese Liberation Army in South Central Los Angeles in 1974, my department's SWAT team started to look much closer at its equipment, particularly firearms with light mounted equipment. The creation of Special Weapons And Tactics, by the way, can be credited to then LAPD Chief of Police, Daryl F. Gates (retired), and senior patrol officers such as Ron McCarthy (retired).

It wasn't until just prior to the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles that the weaponlight for the Colt 1911 .45 cal semi-automatic became a mainstay for LAPD SWAT -- a result of a collaboration with LAPD SWAT and Dr. John Matthews (Laser Products founder). The product became known as the Model 610R Weaponlight.

With over 8,600 officers at the time, the LAPD enjoyed a high status in the law enforcement community with its ongoing training and resources with regards to weaponlights and light fighting techniques. Many, many other California law enforcement agencies followed in this endeavor, citing the numerous advantages gained in target identification, room clearing sweeps, light diffusion tactics, and added a new dimension to lethal force and shoot - don't shoot scenarios. Today's law enforcement K-9 officer is a key embodiment of the needs for a weaponlight platform throughout the entire LE community, and not just SWAT units. The L.A. County Sheriff's Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation are also large agencies that have long since associated themselves with the standard use of SureFire lights for tactical engagements, from the street copper to Special Enforcement Bureau, as well as the FBI's mobile SWAT unit.

To say that law enforcement does not have the time or resources to train as Special Operations units is a gross understatement. In particular, the amount of training that SWAT and SEB go through is at par, if not more, than what a military Special Forces operative goes through. Tactical precision shooting in an urban environment is one of the most difficult and challenging prospect for any operator. The skill, strength, and experience of these law enforcement operators can barely be challenged by some in the Special Operations community. There's a reason why the U.S. military asked members of the LAPD SWAT training cadre to participate as instructors in specialized training with the U.S. 1st SFOD Anti-terrorism unit. In addition, I can guarantee you that the LAPD and SEB SWAT units are not on the grounds of the Marine's Camp Pendleton for sightseeing.

Granted, the U.S. military has become a high demand market now more than ever with the growing structure of the Special Operations community throughout the four branches of the military. Nonetheless, I highly doubt the law enforcement market for SureFire has grown smaller than from its original days. It should have grown proportionately throughout the past decade and a half.

-Jim
 

dano

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Yup...A majority of SRT/SWAT teams will use a SF light. I've never seen a Mellennium series light on a Team's firearms.

On the Beretta's. my Dept's K-9 Officers have the simple 610 light. SWAT/TAC's long arms have a 6P on a mount with a tape switch...That's it...

Some Dept's still have Streamlight SL-series lights attached...That's a heavy gun!

For the average duty officer, I know of a handful that use a SF rechargeable, several of whom are not happy with them, citing poor performance in runtime, broken lamps, etc. Quite a few 6P's that I know of, and I know of one Z2 or is it a 2Z in use.

--dan
 

Seppo_Vesala

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[ QUOTE ]
virgo said:
Dang it Grift,... I've been waiting for a police officer to say "Surefire something or other".

[/ QUOTE ]

It´s easy to see why police agencies dont´t use Surefire, when you look at the price tag. Additionally, they don´t have the money to buy new flashlights every few years, every time there is a new "revolutionary" flashlight on the market. That´s why we use Magchargers in Finland.
 
C

Cosmic Superchunk

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I agree with Seppo. I have only come across 3 LEO's in my area who actually carried Surefire lights on duty and they were G2 and 6P models which were individually bought, not issued. All the others carry Streamlight and Mag products. Some departments just do not have the budget to issue Surefire's over-priced models and many LEO's simply cannot afford them.
 

mvario

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Well maybe in real life. I just saw a trailer for the S.W.A.T. movie, and while the images fly by real fast, it looks like a bunch of Surefires will be making a guest appearance.
 

dougmccoy

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It is interesting to see how some of us on CPF seem to think that because Surefires are the premier handheld and weapon lights that the LEO community must have or indeed want them?

I know from first hand experience that most police, fire and EMS personnel in the UK dont really care about any flashlight as long as it works and doesn't personally cost them anything!

It seems to me that somewhere in the training of all of the above no one mentioned the problems of trying to do their job with poor or in some cases very little light. Perhaps it is part of the culture over here about spending money on your own kit or perhaps just that we expect to be supplied with a flashlight even if it doesnt do the job? A good example is the average UK Policeman (incidentally I have two brothers who are both in different UK police forces) one is issued a 2 D size Maglite and the other is issued with a plastic $6.50 flashlight.

Neither flashlight is very good, both are unacceptable and neither of my brothers will fork out for a decent light? I'm a UK paramedic and the vehicle I drive daily is equipped with a 3 D cell Mag. Needless to say I earn less than my two brothers but I wouldn't ever go out on a night shift without a dependable light and in my case it is either a SF E2e or a G2.

I believe that others on this thread have also observed similar traits either as a department policy or because of the cost to the individual. I believe that the issue and ownership of high end flashlights can be subscribed more to the risks in a potentially deadly force encounter than to the desire to own the best performing light?

Doug /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
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