e-cig explosion lit face on fire, busted 2 teeth

[recDNA]

Some of this stuff is esoteric and frankly, hard. I don't vape but I love to read about flashlights and batteries. I was very confident after years of reading this forum that a bucket of sand was best for thermal runaway. Just yesterday I learned that water is the recommended method to prevent spreading the fire and insertion in sand may exacerbate heat build up and encourage flame. Some here would still argue sand is best. Years ago we were told to ALWAYS and ONLY use protected batteries. Now many argue unprotected batteries are safer. We were told imr batteries have "safe chemistry". I've had posters tell me there is no such thing as an imr battery and they are all hybrids now. My point is that even a dedicated reader can be baffled by all the conflicting info. I must admit, however, that every source I've seen says to stay away from *****fire batteries. Ironically, I used a safefire 17670 battery in a Quark ti because AW wouldn't fit and a dealer I respect recommended it. Never had a problem with it but recycled it for more modern 16650 battery just because despite years of safe service it was a safefire.

 

[chillinn]

Lol! PIPE SMOKERS LIVE LONGER THAN NON SMOKERS! Where did you get this information?!

From the US Surgeon General Report "Smoking and Health" (big pdf)
(No. 1103, page 112)

Death rates for current pipe smokers were little if at all higher than for non-smokers, even with men smoking 10 pipefuls per day and with men who had smoked pipes for more than 30 years.

(No. 1103, page 92)

Among the pipe smokers.... The US mortality ratios are 0.8 for non-inhalers and 1.0 for inhalers.

...which means pipe smokers who inhale live as long as nonsmokers, and pipe smokers that don't inhale live longer than non-smokers.

I don't care what kind of smoking or tobacco use is being talked about. Saying that one type or another is ok and those people live longer than non smokers is just another way to justify your/their addiction!

I don't care what kind of argument you make, as long as it isn't a straw man argument or other type of fallacious argument. No one said it is "ok to smoke," nor has anyone tried to justify addiction.

To understand how the Big Tobacco industry started killing people, you have to understand what it is that they're selling... it isn't tobacco.
This Modern Marvels episode dispassionately makes it clear cigarettes contain no tobacco, but instead a tobacco-based paper product infused with nicotine and 300 some other chemicals in order to keep smokers addicted:
http://www.history.com/shows/modern-marvels/season-12/episode-46
(requires registration)
here's a free clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBAuM1fLKRk


Regular, honest to goodness tobacco doesn't do that. Its still not good for you, but natural tobacco is no where near as lethal as whatever the heck is in cigarettes.

 

[127.0.0.1]

the site that sells the device that exploded says this before you buy one

Be mindful this is a mechanical mod with absolutely no safety features.​

 

[nbp]

Let's keep on topic here guys: li-ion safety in vaping devices.

 

[G. Scott H.]

Regulating such devices would mean limiting the user's choices (and probably banning mechanical mods in favor of ones that have built in batteries, recharging circuits and proper protection from shorts and overcurrent situations). I imagine the "vaping community" would respond to these strictures the same as the flashlight community would. It's sad that a kid learned this lesson this way (and I'll reserve judgement on his parents in situation) but unfortunately if the lesson the kid learned is that some government or manufacturer should serve in proxy for good judgement he may end up learning the wrong lesson.

Agreed 100%.

 

[chillinn]

the site that sells the device that exploded says this before you buy one

Be mindful this is a mechanical mod with absolutely no safety features.​

I would have no problem, and I fail to see how anyone would, with a regulation requiring a primer on Li-ion cell safety and best practices be included in vaping product literature. A simple warning sticker on horizontal blinds to warn of child strangulation is sufficient, or on the side of a paint bucket to warn of accidental child asphyxiation. A simple warning statement does not appear to be sufficient in preventing cell abuse and subsequent accidental injury. Not all regulation is restrictive. Sometimes it actually is helpful and decreases risk of injury without limiting user freedom.

 

[Flashgas]

The manufacturers of 18650 batteries never intended their use in vapeing applications or flashlights for that matter. Sony has sent letters to several distributors stating that. CYA letters to be honest that state the intent was for manufactures to assemble them in packs for cordless products. They have been adopted for use outside their intended purpose and as such Sony denies all responsibility for misapplication. IMHO other manufacturers will follow Sony's lead

 

[Flashgas]

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[lunas]

found out he had a "mechanical mod" then lost interest.

For anyone who doesn't know they are the custom vape sticks that you can put a battery 14500-26650 in size and you make your own coil out of titanium or whatever wire so the resistance across your dead short is under a single ohm or higher if your coil is longer. Bottom line it is a sealed metal cylinder with a dead short of resistance wire on the tank that heats up a glycol based vapor agent typically they have a button to activate them.

Honestly i'm surprised we don't hear of this crap happening more often...

 

[chillinn]

The manufacturers of 18650 batteries never intended their use in vapeing applications or flashlights for that matter. Sony has sent letters to several distributors stating that. CYA letters to be honest that state the intent was for manufactures to assemble them in packs for cordless products. They have been adopted for use outside their intended purpose and as such Sony denies all responsibility for misapplication. IMHO other manufacturers will follow Sony's lead

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply. Because of the cell manufacturer's published intent, the end user should not have the benefit of vaping manufacturer provided comprehensive or decent safe-use instructions? Unless vaping manufacturers step up and provide this information with safe-use standards, government enforced regulations can be expected. Soon. And that will be the end of the custom vaping market. What is kind of ironic is that there is already currently investigations examining the dangers of the vape juice, nicotine and gycol, gycerine, and whathaveyou. They're investigating the wrong chemistry.

 

[hangn_9]

Flashaholic's

I've been a vapor since 09. Close to the same time I joined this forum.


The first thing we should clear up. This is not specific to vaping. Flashlights have vented, cell phones have vented, computer, ect ect . . . Venting has been around a long time.


What has changed is the battery chemistry and the coils used to vaporize the eliquide. I am not a battery guy so if someone feels the need to correct me feel free. The Lithion batteries are a safer tech. I say that meaning the chemistry is more robust and less likely to fail. That is not to imply they wont fail. Only less likely. When they do fail they "Vent". A vaporizer "mod" is an old term used for when people would modify a flashlight into a vaporizer (e-cig).


The first people to mod were garage type dudes who had some (typically) flashlight background. These folks understood the chemistry and put vent holes in the tube to avoid creating a pipe bomb. All was ok very few battery failures. The main reason for not many failures was the fact that the coils had significantly higher resistance than now. The lowest you could purchase were referred to as "low resistance" commonly 1.8 ohm.


In the last couple of years people have figured out way to vape using "Sub Ohm" coils. (I currently am using 0.5 ohm with high drain batteries) These coils create both more vapor and flavor. This is why they are becoming the new norm. As this situation has evolved it has been clearly identified as a safety concern in regard to the battery use. Most reputably vendors post signs and discuss the need to understand "Ohms Law" before you begin "sub ohming". We understand this is a potentially dangerous issue. Many new mods have safety's put in place. Recently regulated mods produced detect the resistance of the coil in use, identify the battery type and max amperage. And will not let the device be used at setting's not safe for the equipment used.


Like in the flashlight industry, Chinese clones have saturated the market. Many, maybe most have little to no regard to safety.


Most likely this young man, like many teens. Felt he already "knew it all" and did not understand the limitations of his battery or the effect the coils have. With little information there could have been (As you should already know being a member of this forum) a number of things done wrong, torn wrapper, improperly charged, moisture dammage, ect ect . . . We don't know why his mod failed.


As far as the question "Who would let their teen vape?" Give me a break! Who let's teens smoke? Who let's teens drink? Who let's teens smoke pot? Who lets teens have sex? Who let's teens curse?


Let's face it. None of us parents want our kids doing these things. But IMHO a wise parent understands what being a teen is, how peer pressure effects them, how wanting to fit in plays a huge role in the things that they do. I personally take the position that I do not condone these things. I do not advocate them. But if that is what they choose to do I want them to do it in a way that creates the least amount of risk possible.

• Wear a rubber
• Call me if you or your ride is drunk and I will bring you home no questions asked.
• Regardless of your pot political views. It's illegal, there is a difference between a misdemeanor and a felony. Know the law.
• And if your going to smoke. Vape instead, use non-nic juice, match coils and battery and do it safely.

Even though I'm an old boring turd now. I was a kid that did all those things above. And not because my parents didn't care. But because I was a "know it all" Teen. I don't want to encourage any of that. At the same time I don't want to be a hypocrite. If I have an opportunity to reduce the risk through education. If there is a chance I can limit harm.



I'm gonna take it.


The worst mistake I have made in my life was taking up smoking cigarettes.

 

[hangn_9]

The scarry thing is now were into LiPo's. While they are safer (less likely to fail) the failure mode is higher risk (explosion vs venting). This has the vaping world worried about more headlines like the one in this post. But we as a community are working on how to make things safer.

 

[ven]

Too add a little, most mods(what i have seen or owned anyway) have big air holes in them for any potential venting(of course no need like a flashlight to be ixp8 rated!) . Flashlight's are essentially a sealed tube.............

I avoid mec mods and use regulated, built in cut offs, wont read too low ohms etc and of course the correct equipment that is more than adequate for the purpose. By that i mean i dont use a 10a cell and ask 10a of it!

Issues to me are simple, be it ignorance , lack of guidance from seller or buyer doing research(be it either or both). Wrong equipment , be it cells,charger, mod, coils and way its built(too low ohm with poor/inferior cells). Any or god help us ,all could be the issue/s occurring and no doubt will continue to unfortunately.......

 

[Tachead]

The funny thing is that many people think inhaling random chemicals including propylene glycol(a known poison found in anti-freeze) is a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes

Its just a matter of time until they put further bans and limitations on vaping. They just banned vaping in public places in a lot places, the same as cigarettes, and the FDA is considering a full ban on sales across the US right now. Canada's health agency is as well.

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/features/ecigarettes-under-fire

 

[ven]

Going off topic, many many studies have been carried out, here is one official one
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...mmissioned_by_Public_Health_England_FINAL.pdf

In hailing nicotine and drinking it are completely different! One will kill you...........

 

[hangn_9]

The funny thing is that many people think inhaling random chemicals including propylene glycol(a known poison found in anti-freeze) is a safe alternative to smoking cigarettes

Its just a matter of time until they put further bans and limitations on vaping. They just banned vaping in public places in a lot places, the same as cigarettes, and the FDA is considering a full ban on sales across the US right now. Canada's health agency is as well.

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/features/ecigarettes-under-fire

You shouldn't act like you know what your talking about, when you clearly don't. I can and will cite studies that are both peer reviewed and done using sound scientific methodology. Which you can not say my friend. Why do I say that to you. Because I know there are none that support the ban of vaping which have not been debunked while many that do support it as a harm reduction tool in the fight against tobacco. I am headed out the door for work right now. The harm you do by sharing your uninformed opinions as if they were fact. Is that you may discourage someone from living a healthier life. Don't site a news story with NO basis in fact.

 

[nbp]

Hey! Remember when I mentioned this thread was about li-ion battery safety in regard to vaping devices and NOT about the safety or health effects of vaping, e-cigs, real cigarettes, tobacco, pipes or public vaping laws? Yeah, I was serious about that. Let's keep on topic. Further off topic posts will be deleted as they are only serving to create discord in an otherwise relevant and potentially helpful thread. Thanks guys.

 

[hangn_9]

Ok discussed with nbp and apologized. Moving on.

Most reputable sellers have hand out's or links like this one http://www.ohmslawcalculator.com/ohms-law-calculator Some keep large laminated poster on the wall explaining the risks and where to find info. The community (Including myself) recognize this is a problem that can potentially harm our already fragile existence. Most reviewers will give a vendor a bad review is safety instructions are not included with the device.

The problem is aggravated with overseas sellers misrepresenting (sound familiar?) either the devices or the batteries. I don't like to admit it. But I expect to see more of these events in the news.

There are also a number of calculators shared and easily available to aid in calculating resistance using varying size and composition of wire for coils. http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp

I think this is inline with the op.

 

[ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond]

An interesting thing I thought of. Around Christmas time this year the big gift was the hoverboards. A few explosions and the shutdown of this product was world wide. UK was stopping them at customs. Amazon stopped selling and was offering to buy back the board from anyone.

The response to the vaping issues is not as dramatic yet there are more human casualties than there are just fire/smoke damaged homes.

You have to wonder if it has a lot to do with the target market for these devices.

 

[hangn_9]

Yep your exactly right. The thing is those new battery packs are safer meaning they fail less often. The problem is instead of venting, they explode. There are a lot of youtube videos.

The problem is the same as many of you have experienced with traditional 18650's. They can "Rewrap" the pack to read crazy stuff and exaggerated spec's. Which puts the consumer firmly in harms way.

Several vaporizer manufactures have begun to make mod's with non-user serviceable batteries to ensure the proper batteries are used in their products. As you can imagine that is not very popular with experienced users like myself. We don't want to send the device back to the manufacture to change a battery. That said I can completely understand WHY.

I don't know how well you all follow the news. Part of the new union contract with pilot's, want to ban shipment on planes because when the fail they burn so hot the crews have no way of putting out the fire.