Effects of EMP on LED Lights?

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AlphaTea

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

IIRC Popular Science magazine had an article last year about a "cheap" EMP weapon that almost any country could make from easily obtainable electrical/mechanical parts (non-nuclear).

As far as your home microwave goes, dont make the mistake of putting ANY kind of recycled paper in there. Some Eco-nuts like recycled paper towels. I have seen it ignite within seconds. It seems that in the recycle process they are still not able to remove all traces of metal (i.e. aluminum foil gum wrappers etc).

Hmmm...I wonder where recycled toilet paper comes from?
 

LEDmodMan

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

So I wonder if those silver ESD bags we're all familiar with would protect from a device from EMP? They protect from static, why not EM? When I used to work for an electronics company, I was amazed at what kind of damage a static shock could cause to an IC. When the ones with the clear windows in them were damaged (usually these are EPROMS), you could looks at them under a microscope, and there were marks on the chip that looked like it had been through world war 3! Pieces of it blown apart!! While LEDs aren't as sensitive to static charges as some other things, a large charge can still damage them, so make sure to follow ESD procedures when you get your packages in the mail! Yes, it does feel/look stupid to be wearing a bracelet that is plugged into the ground of a wall socket, but that will pay for itself eventually.
 

Entropy

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

[ QUOTE ]
Minjin said:
Oh come on...everyone's dying to ask the one question that is burning on our minds: How do we make an EMP device? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

After all, isn't this the Electronics and Other Mad Scientist Projects forum? Reminiscent of the scene in Cryptonomicon where they activate an EMP device in the back of a van...

Oh yeah, anyone ever hear the old trick of tying a knot in a power cord to prevent damage if lightning should strike? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Mark

[/ QUOTE ]
Tying a knot in a power cord might help a bit - This will add inductance to the cord, which will increase the impedance to high-frequency spikes. Probably not enough to make a difference except in marginal situations.

As to making an EMP device - Certain configurations of the human body and a Van De Graaf generator can result in some nice pulses going through the body. I recall once in high school physics, we did something that involved a ring of people with either one or both ends at the VDG. If the ring was interrupted (or possibly if it was closed by a person at the other end touching ground), a jolt would go through everyone that could be felt. We were told to remove any watches beforehand. One guy forgot to do so and his watch didn't survive the day!

As to whether a light being EDCed would survive - Probably quite a bit of luck involved. Something like a MiniMag has shielding over most of its body, which would offer some protection. Wrapping it well in aluminum foil would work, so would putting it into a metal box or can (think Faraday cage) for safety. Key being that the box would have no holes/wires going in/out when closed. A "thin" solution might be a copper pipe with an endcap soldered on one end, and a threaded joint on the other so you can screw the other cap on.

Shankus - As far as shielding needing a path to ground, this isn't true. It's a known fact in physics that electrical fields to not pass into a good conductor. Best example is a solid ball - There will be an electrical field on the surface of a charged ball, but none inside. This can be extended to a hollow ball - Same thing. Electrical field outside, none inside. Any sealed metal container has the same effect.

Also, even nonsealed containers work well up to a given frequency (where the holes in the container are greater than the wavelength at that frequency). A cage made of window screening will block any electromagnetic energy below the high microwave region from getting in. A good example of a Faraday cage are some demonstrations people have done with huge Van De Graaf generators or Tesla coils - A person standing inside a cage getting struck by arcs of electricity from such sources will feel NOTHING. (At least not directly from the electricity - The sound of the arcs would be a different story.)
 

shipinretech

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

Your first concern in any weapon of mass destruction event is proximity. The most important decisions you made about surviving a massively destructive event is where you live and where you work. If you live or work in a high risk area, you and your electronics are substantially more vulnerable to EMP pulse and everything else, because you are more likely to be in close proximity to a massively destructive event.

In instances of EMP, and every other kind of point source destructive event, the effect generally tends to follow the laws of spherical spreading loss. This is good news because the power of the destructive wave fronts are inverse cubes of the distance. There are some ground effect, transmission line, and atmospheric anomalies to be considered, but those are practically impossible for the layman to calculate due the immense number of variables involved, starting with the location and composition of the initial event. In short, however, distance from the blast is your best friend. Heading for the hills is also a good idea because terra firma stops everything but cosmic rays.

Now back in the bad old days of the Cold War when it was not beyond the range of possibility that substantial numbers of nuclear devices would fly at any given moment, the likelihood of being caught in an EMP pulse was pretty substantial and wildly irrelevant. If you were caught by an EMP pulse, you were probably about to be in hell anyway because the infrastructure of your city just went up in smoke. Today it is much more likely that if you are caught in an EMP blast, you are going to make it because most of the barbarians and dictators striving for nuclear devices do not have the capability of delivering the repeated strikes necessary to turn your bad day into your last day. Individual nuclear weapons are not nearly as overwhelmingly powerful as movies and anti-war activists would have have you believe. Don't get me wrong, they are not something I want set off anywhere near me, but getting caught in an EMP pulse is not your death warrant.

It is a good and worthwhile thing to create and maintain an emergency kit and plan. Keeping that kit in an old 20mm ammunition can will probably keep everything dry and EMP proof. I suspect that aluminum Mag Instruments based lights will probably hold up much better than plastic bodied flashlights. I very much hope that I never find out the hard way. I think it can be stated without contradiction that the more parts, the greater likelihood of part failure by definition.
 

Wylie

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

Sigman,
That was a funny website. Maybe I should get some of those beanies made with earmuffs for cell phone users. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Minjin,
From what I have gathered magnetrons are being used now to make EMPs. I am only guessing but magnetrons may also be also in the interruption of transmitting devices used for weaponry. Some people have suggested that magnetrons have been the cause of crop circles. Something about the age of the technologies and the possible advancements and uses as a star wars type of application, kind of has me wondering if this could be true.
 

shankus

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

Here is a couple of interesting excerpts from this document:

"…thickness plays an important role in shielding. When skin depth is considered, however, it turns out that thickness is only critical at low frequencies. At high frequencies, even metal foils are effective shields."

"The amount of current flow at any depth in the shield, and the rate of decay is governed by the conductivity of the metal and its permeability. The residual current appearing on the opposite face is the one responsible for generating the field which exists on the other side."

Of course, what we're talking about, is NO frequency.

http://www.chomerics.com/products/documents/emicat/pg192theory_of_emi.pdf
 

highlandsun

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

Getting into the mad scientist rhythm of things here... Most of the docs I can find on the subject are about EMP bombs, single-use devices designed to take out a large area. I just want a small focused gun that will let me take out my annoying neighbor's boombox when it's keeping me awake. How much power could that possibly require... I bet the starter from my HID headlight kit could be a good first approach, and the parabolic reflector of the headlamp housing itself is probably decent for aiming purposes...
 

T-Rex

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

Highlandsun...

That's a good idea. While you're at it, put enough power in to disable a car stereo. Then it can be used for those people who are into major noise pollution. (both from the stereo & engine)
 

PsycoBob[Q2]

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

www.4hv.org

The TRUE High-Voltage maniacs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif
 

Gransee

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

A Post about placing flashlights in a microwave to determine their relative EMP resistance.

Peter
 

PsycoBob[Q2]

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

Sorry, I'm not gonna nuke my BadBoy.

Course, if Craig wants top add that to the drop-tests.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif
 

Marshall Johnson

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

[ QUOTE ]
shipinretech said:
Individual nuclear weapons are not nearly as overwhelmingly powerful as movies and anti-war activists would have have you believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll agree here. It seems that movies have convinced people that if a nuke went off in the country, that half a state would be vaporised. But this isn't the case. Hundreds of nukes used to be tested outside of Las Vegas and they even used to hand out goggles so people could watch!

Sure, if detonated in a city it would cause massive damage, but it's not going to send your whole state up in smoke.
 

Marshall Johnson

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

[ QUOTE ]
Wylie said:
Some people have suggested that magnetrons have been the cause of crop circles. Something about the age of the technologies and the possible advancements

[/ QUOTE ]

Other people have suggested that THEY have made crop circles. Something about stepping on the corn with their feet and fooling conspiracy theorists for decades.
 

Kirill

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Some words from army engineer...

In common case, all devices with semiconductor elements can be damaged by EMI (Elecromagnetic Impulse - correct name for it). For military use, devices has different protective classes (I think, it's same situation in every country), some of devices can work right after nuclear blast at 1-2 kilometers from them. But such devices are made without semiconductors - there are compact variants of old-time electronic lamps (they can't be damaged by internal current, produced by EMI and they are insensitive to high gamma-radiation). Most devices with semiconductors has to be in solid metal screens, because every element is connected to circuit board or wires (working like antennas in such case), and strong EMI can produce high frequency current in it.
If we are talking about flashlights with LEDs or internal electronics, it's "protection class" depends only on two things: does flashlight has solid metal body (like MagLite) and does it have metal cover for lens. If two "yes" - you are lucky, your flashlight can resist EMI (maybe, better than your car with electronic ignition). If only first "yes" - it can resist, but without guarantee. If two "no" - it's better to take another, if you want to face nuclear war with light. 8) I think, only SureFire produces good LED flashlights for this.
 

Lux Luthor

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Re: Some words from army engineer...

Kirill,

What about a metal bodied flashlight with an LED using a grounded aluminum reflector? This should protect the circuitry, but the LED would be more exposed. Do you think the LED is more or less sensitive to EMI than the typical driving circuitry?
 

Kirill

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Re: Some words from army engineer...

In real practice, it can be really hard to calculate, how effective is metal screen with some required holes. Generally, small hole (~1/5" or 0.5 cm) is not a big problem (most of screened devices has ventilation holes like this or little less diameter). And I don't think, that if you will be in nearest zone of nuclear blast, broken flashlight will be the greatest problem... But if you want to make your best to protect your device, it's better to use metal cap (when flashlight is off) or special cover made of steel grid (1/25" step or less).
 

Wim Hertog

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

Making an EMP is very simple: just charge a bunch of very large caps and when they are full, discharge them thru a coil! The larger the current, voltage and coil, the bigger the pulse. You can also use microwave generators...
 

Wylie

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Re: Electromagnetic pulse

Wim Hertog,
There you go, now add a magnetically controlled directional impulses through the open center of the magnetron and another around the outside of the magnetron moving in the same direction as the magnet in the center and it seems to make sense to me. The only problem is fitting that much needed electricity into a portable size that is light enough for a human to lift.
Satellites circling the earth would only need to uncoil a faros conductor to generate the electrical current that I would guess would be needed. It is kind of interesting how those guys with the boards out there in the middle of the night generate enough heat to pop the nodes on plants like popcorn now isn't it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
 
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