Energizer Lithium AAA - instantaneous battery failure!!

[luminary]

I started this thread over on Manufactureres > ARC forum two days ago.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=133623

I think this section is a more appropriate place for it.

In a nutshell, here's the story:

In the morning, I picked up my ARC-P, turned it on, and it was DEAD!! I opened it up, everything looked fine, put it back together – still dead. Totally dead. I figured that somehow the electronics just went kaput overnight. There's never been any problem with it, I had just used it the night before, and it was not left on accidentally in the meantime.

Then I replaced the battery. Voila! Light! Has anybody EVER had this problem? Where a battery just stops cold? The battery was an Energizer Lithium AAA (Exp. 2019) and it had only about 10 minutes of run time on it.

From the outside, the battery is in perfect shape. The contacts on the battery and in the ARC-P are perfectly clean and free of lube, etc. The battery was working at full power the night before. I also stuck it in another working flashlight to test it. Dead.

I would sure appreciate any input on this. The thought that my ARC (or a battery) could just give out like this without warning is almost devastating. What could possibly be the problem?

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

are you certain it was not left switched on, as sherlock holmes would say the simplest answer is usualy the correct one.

regards.

John.

 

[luminary]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

Nope. It was lying sideways right out in the open, in my bedroom, on top of the turntable lid where I keep it. And even if it was left on, this light, with its long run time, would have still been glowing in the morning.

 

[wasBlinded]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

So whats the catastrophic part of it all?

 

[powernoodle]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

So what exactly is the catastrophic part? A battery died.

Edited - Blinded beat me to it! :laughing:



peace

 

[luminary]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

So whats the catastrophic part of it all?

Okay. Under the circumstances, it wasn't catastrophic. But it could have been, since it's the only light I normally carry at night, and I expect it to work.

 

[nikon]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

Ive had that happen with both lithium and NIMH batteries.

 

[jayflash]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

The catastrophic failure was the judgement used in wording this thread's title. We don't need misleading sensationalism when it comes to safety issuses or lithium cells. Please choose a more appropriate title the next time because people will still read and respond with helpful info.

I know a little about catastrophically bad judgement because I employ it, myself, from time to time and it's a good thing my feet aren't any larger or a foot would still be preventing the ingestion of yummy caloric substances

I can appreciate the effort to create a catchy title - I try for that too and hope mine aren't over the top.

peace

 

[luminary]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

The catastrophic failure was the judgement used in wording this thread's title. We don't need misleading sensationalism when it comes to safety issuses or lithium cells. Please choose a more appropriate title the next time because people will still read and respond with helpful info.
. . .
peace

Point taken.

I just did a Google search in CPF for "catastrophic" and I saw some ugly things.

Title has been revised.

 

[BackBlast]

Contact Energizer, tell them about the problem and your concerns. I find most battery companies very responsive.

 

[hank]

I bought a couple of 8-packs each of the new lithium AAA and AA a while back, at a deep discount, mail order, and I think three out of 32 were almost dead when I first tried using them. I figured it was par for the course for new technology. But I am going to suspect them for a long while and never rely on having just a few as my backup battery collection.

 

[jar3ds]

....

i'm really confused... i just took all my lithium E2 AAA's stored as my backups... and tested their voltage with my DMM... and their voltages where all over the place???

1.875v, 1.78, 1.89v, etc...

? whats going on here...

I took three of the most common voltage and did a runtime test on my PT Quad and once it fell out of regulation... i checked the voltages as soon as I turned the light off...

- .7v
- .9v
- 1.2v

after waiting an hour to let the cells recover:

-.85v
-1.2v
-1.4v

so one of my cells died while the other two are decent... i'm scared that these batteries are becoming more inconsistant

 

[EngrPaul]

The ARC flashlight has no limit to the amount of force you put on the battery when you twist the head, and no compliance to allow the battery to expand when it gets hot, even if you only turn the head to the point it turns on the light and no further.

Of course, this is speculation. But I have no doubt that putting extreme axial force on a battery is detrimental to it's ability to function properly.

 

[nocturnal]

Of course, this is speculation. But I have no doubt that putting extreme axial force on a battery is detrimental to it's ability to function properly.

To quote the original poster:

From the outside, the battery is in perfect shape.

Doesn't really sound like the result of "extreme axial force" to me.

 

[Brock]

Do these lithium's use a thermal fuse or any protective fuse that anyone knows of? I know of similar situations with 123's. Personally I would prefer to have the fuse fail to quickly or inadvertently then not fail when it should.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

One thing that should be noted!

Voltage doesn't tell the story when it comes to Lithium cells (at least non-rechargable liths).

Amps (or as we call it - Flash Amps) is the story teller!

I had two dead lith AAs that had ~1.5V each. But less than .5 FA

I haven't had one be dead suddently however...

 

[David_Campen]

I bought a couple of 8-packs each of the new lithium AAA and AA a while back, at a deep discount, mail order, and I think three out of 32 were almost dead when I first tried using them. I figured it was par for the course for new technology. But I am going to suspect them for a long while and never rely on having just a few as my backup battery collection.

Hmm, Energizer Lithiums really aren't available at deep discount. I would be suspicious of the source. Were these the Energizer branded 8-packs like you see in retail stores?

I have gone through many dozen Energizer Lithium AA cells without any failures like that.

 

[David_Campen]

i'm really confused... i just took all my lithium E2 AAA's stored as my backups... and tested their voltage with my DMM... and their voltages where all over the place???

1.875v, 1.78, 1.89v, etc...

? whats going on here...

I took three of the most common voltage and did a runtime test on my PT Quad and once it fell out of regulation... i checked the voltages as soon as I turned the light off...

- .7v
- .9v
- 1.2v

after waiting an hour to let the cells recover:

-.85v
-1.2v
-1.4v

so one of my cells died while the other two are decent... i'm scared that these batteries are becoming more inconsistant

Your results look typical and consistent to me. As PlayboyJoe said, open circuit voltage measurements are not very usefull.

 

[soapy]

I had one out of four in the pack I bought off eBay the other day not work. I was mistified! And it was the back-up emergency light for the house, so I'm glad I checked it.

(Yes, they were sealed, no signs of tampering. Lithium Iron AA's.)

 

[Tronic]

Re: Energizer Lithium AAA catastrophic, instantaneous battery failure!!

Okay. Under the circumstances, it wasn't catastrophic. But it could have been, since it's the only light I normally carry at night, and I expect it to work.

This was your fault to only carry one light!
One light is no light! Two lights are one light! This are the basics of CPF.

Off topic: I just realized that this is my 100 post