Exploding Batteries

paulr · Jul 22, 2007

As far as I can tell, the ZTS is basically a conveniently packaged load tester. It puts a resistive load across the battery and then lights LED's corresponding to set voltage points. A handy gadget if you want to sort a lot of batteries in a hurry, but you can do the same thing with a load resistor and your existing voltmeter if you want to save yourself some cash at the expense of some convenience.

BB · Jul 22, 2007

LuxLuthor said:
My strategy during warmer weather is to charge in the garage on concrete after removing all flammables, and in the event of problem, pull the charger cord from wall and hit the garage opener door as I exit.

I would like to give a big WARNING NOT TO CHARGE LITHIUM CELLS ON CONCRETE unless there are zero flammable items nearby...

Concrete "spalls" when exposed to high/concentrated heat... Spalling is when little chunks of concrete are sent flying (as if from a small explosive charge) from the differential heating of the concrete. A small amount of lithium could easily be sent flaming 3-4 feet straight up or sideways (larger amounts--don't I don't know how far--probably lots of variables)...

Ask how I know? As kids, my Dad would sometimes bring magnesium home for use to "play with". One day I did this on the concrete steps and had a very pretty pyrotechnic display from shooting concrete and flying/burning magnesium.

-Bill

LuxLuthor · Jul 22, 2007

Senna, my previous posts here were more directed at rechargeable Lithium Ion cells. If all you are really asking about is disposable, small 123a cells....that is in another category.

[Humor] In reading the recent Barefootone 'event' I'm hoping people from this thread will ask him to correct the subject from "exposion" to a more benign "venting" and point out that it is a good thing he did not throw any water near the light, how he should have had a Class D fire extinguisher, not breathe or touched anything, and remind him how rare it is to be struck by lightning, have a meteor come crashing through his house, or have his computer monitor burst into flames....in other words, for him not to worry as long as he has the: "One ZTS 'ring' to rule them all" :poof:

[/Humor]

Ya gotta love the irony. :crackup:

LuxLuthor · Jul 22, 2007

BB said:
I would like to give a big WARNING NOT TO CHARGE LITHIUM CELLS ON CONCRETE unless there are zero flammable items nearby...

Concrete "spalls" when exposed to high/concentrated heat... Spalling is when little chunks of concrete are sent flying (as if from a small explosive charge) from the differential heating of the concrete. A small amount of lithium could easily be sent flaming 3-4 feet straight up or sideways (larger amounts--don't I don't know how far--probably lots of variables)...

Ask how I know? As kids, my Dad would sometimes bring magnesium home for use to "play with". One day I did this on the concrete steps and had a very pretty pyrotechnic display from shooting concrete and flying/burning magnesium.

-Bill

See, now that is some new, and interesting information that I had never heard of before. I never even have heard of the word "spalls" before, so thanks, Bill :thumbsup:

I make sure to remove all flammables from my garage floor (or use the fireplace), but now I suppose if this information is considered you almost would need to charge insiide a LipoSack, or on a small box of sand. At some point dumping the Lithium Cobalt for the new Saphion (LiFeSO4/Emoli/A123) technology in various Li-Ion sizes cannot get here fast enough.

Braddah_Bill · Jul 22, 2007

Marion David Poff said:
Howdy,

I am interested in exploding batteries, and I would be happy to search for threads....

But, I keep getting an error message, and so the search function is not working for me....

If you could be so kind as to post some links, etc.....

Marion

g36pilot · Jul 23, 2007

-deleted-

g36pilot · Jul 23, 2007

LuxLuthor · Jul 23, 2007

Holy Moly....g36pilot....that is one heck of a resource post you just made.....thanks in advance of checking all those links. I recognize some of them.

g36pilot · Jul 24, 2007

Thanks LL. I merely collected the work and misadventures of others for reference.

And once again, thanks to CPFer's Newbie, Silverfox, incident reporters, numerous other members, and battery/flashlight retailers (for test material support) for the education relative to our applications.

DM51 · Jul 25, 2007

Here's another_one, posted just a few hours ago.

LED61 · Jul 25, 2007

Illum_the_nation said:
oh...might want to look back on some pictures...cells that eject entire guts isn't just venting...its stark raving mad and exploding like a bullet in one direction

I suppose its debatable:thumbsup:

I think what Tom really meant was--and I've seen him quote the terms before--"rapid disassembly accompanied by flame"

LuxLuthor · Jul 25, 2007

I guess we should redefine a device that propels a projectile out a barrel also is the result of a "rapid venting" of a powdered mixture of potassium nitrate, charcoal, & sulfur, triggered by an "internal short." :crackup:

DM51 · Jul 25, 2007

LuxLuthor said:
I guess we should redefine a device that propels a projectile out a barrel also is the result of a "rapid venting" of a powdered mixture of potassium nitrate, charcoal, & sulfur, triggered by an "internal short."

LOL, that sounds very uncomfortable, Lux. I think you'd better stop eating that stuff.

LuxLuthor · Jul 25, 2007

I have been listening to Ron White and Lewis Black too much again.

Quickbeam · Jul 27, 2007

I copied the links from Braddah_Bill and g36pilot and added them to the 123A Explosion page on FlashlightReviews.com. My thought is to try to collect as much information in one place as I can for everyone's use and reference. I have also linked to this thread. If there are any objections, please let me know and I'll remove the "borrowed" content.

Doug P.

yuandrew · Jul 28, 2007

Destructive Testing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/yuandrew/CPF/1deb7ccd.jpg
Microwaved 123
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/yuandrew/CPF/2fa146a8.jpg MMicrowaved 123

I know those are on my Photobucket host but they were actually done by Pydpiper a while back; I just happened to saved his pictures. The microwave experiment was mostly his idea though. My idea I suggested to him was to "rapid-charge" a semi-depleted set of SureFire cells by hooking them directly to 120 volts AC (with a long extension cord)

Before:

After:

Thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/77377

heckubus · May 1, 2008

Hi,

not being a soldier or in law enforcement, I can't imagine why I would spend hours researching this issue.. Why expose myself and my family to a risk that can only be mitigated by hours of research and care when alternative and safer batteries are available? Just a newbie sharing his initial thoughts...

5kids · May 1, 2008

I found Pelican's bulletin regarding use of batteries. No surprise, but they don't approve Surefire...hmmm perhaps its the competition? If someone else posted this before, I applogize. I searched CPF for 30 minutes and couldn't find it.

http://www.pelican.com/support/bulletins/tech_bulletin_LithiumBatteryWarning.pdf

Highlights from bulletin:

Lithium batteries can explode, leak or cause
burns if not handled appropriately. Please
observe the following rules of thumb:

• Use only Panasonic™, Energizer™, Duracell™, or Sanyo™ cells

• Do not mix with used or other battery types/brands

• Replace all cells at the same time
• Do not open batteries
• Do not dispose of in fire
• Do not heat above 75C (167F)
• Do not expose contents to water
• Do not recharge
• Do not install backwards

On another note.. I work as an Engineer and was meeting with a salesperson for an industrial wireless monitor that happens to use 2x123A primaries. Of couse I inspected them and saw they used Panisonic cells. When I asked about user battery replacement, they explained that because of potential vibration at some installations they solder the batteries in place so they don't have any intermmittent contact probelms. I expressed my concern about soldering and potentially blocking vent holes because Lithium batteries can somtimes explode and that loose batteries are actually banned from commercial flights.

Of course I got some questions from the salesperson and my boss as to why I knew so much about batteries, I just explained it was for some "hobby" interrest that I have. I couldn't come out of the closet that I'm a flashaholic.

One week later, I met with a more technical person from the same company, and he mentioned that it had gotten back to him about me knowing a lot about lithium batteries and raised some safety concerns.

I guess all my time spent at work at CPF wasn't a complete waste!

MaxIcon · May 1, 2008

heckubus said:
Hi,

not being a soldier or in law enforcement, I can't imagine why I would spend hours researching this issue.. Why expose myself and my family to a risk that can only be mitigated by hours of research and care when alternative and safer batteries are available? Just a newbie sharing his initial thoughts...

For a long time, the best and brightest small flashlights were only available with CR123. With LEDs, this is not as critical, but CR123s are a major part of the cutting-edge flashlight industry now, and many people have quite a lot of CR123 powered gear. The battery failures are a relatively new development, partly due to the proliferation of CR123 gear driving a market for inexpensive batteries.

I use them in my car kits and earthquake kits due to the very long shelf life, and the lower likelihood of battery leakage destroying the equipment. Years ago, when Maglites were among the best you could get, alkaline cells were the standard, and I had many pieces of emergency gear damaged due to battery leakage, plus the shelf life wasn't good enough for long term storage. Lithium cells just weren't very available back then. Some of my current 'quake and car kits have CR123 batteries that have been in there for 5+ years, and they're still working and in good shape on the annual checkups.

YMMV, as always, but CR123 batteries solved quite a few problems for me in disaster preparedness - compact, powerful lights that I can count on working if I need them, even after years of storage. I just have to buy good quality batteries (and replace my old incandescents with LEDs, now)...

Exploding Batteries

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