Fake Philips HID bulbs very common now, in fact on the internet most are Counterfeits

[XeRay]

Philips in fact does make automotive bulbs and some Xenarc ballasts in China.


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Posted from my phone.

None of the Philips Automotive type (D1S/R, D2S/R, D3S/R, D4S/R or DL50 type) HID bulbs are made in China.
They are all ALWAYS and have always been made in Germany, there are no exception in this particular product line. Some Philips Halogen bulbs might be made in China, I have no knowledge in that area. I am a large volume OEM HID bulb buyer from Philips USA and Philips Germany. Philips has contracted some ballast products to be made in China in the past. They have now teamed up with Panasonic (Matsushita) again, as they had been for many years prior, they have also worked closely with Denso / Koito in the past. Philips had a ballast deal with Keboda of China for a time, that deal was a "flop". http://eng.keboda.com/cpjs/qcdz/zmxt/ As far as I am aware, and I am very well informed from my Philips reps. That is the only automotive style HID ballast company Philips has ever worked with in China, at least beyond the talking stages.

 

[get-lit]

The counterfeits are surely not made at the same plant because they are different, and significantly inferior.

 

[Ualnosaj]

None of the Philips Automotive type (D1S/R, D2S/R, D3S/R, D4S/R or DL50 type) HID bulbs are made in China.
They are all ALWAYS and have always been made in Germany, there are no exception in this particular product line. Some Philips Halogen bulbs might be made in China, I have no knowledge in that area. I am a large volume OEM HID bulb buyer from Philips USA and Philips Germany. Philips has contracted some ballast products to be made in China in the past. They have now teamed up with Panasonic (Matsushita) again, as they had been for many years prior, they have also worked closely with Denso / Koito in the past. Philips had a ballast deal with Keboda of China for a time, that deal was a "flop". http://eng.keboda.com/cpjs/qcdz/zmxt/ As far as I am aware, and I am very well informed from my Philips reps. That is the only automotive style HID ballast company Philips has ever worked with in China, at least beyond the talking stages.

You do know Philips makes a small subset of other bulbs as well too? We used to be a volume importer as well. They offer H1, H3, H4 (bi-xenon), H7, H11, 9005, 9006. Unfortunately my hard link image was removed but if you search "Philips HID redflagdeals" you'll find it. We're talking the real deal, not "similar" or "end of line" or "knockoffs". We mainly offered them to large machinery operators like loaders and aircraft maintenance (primarily cleaning) and a small skid to a heli provider.

Unfortunately the general public is more interested in a $50 kit so no more consumer sales (for us that is).

Alas I'd defend my position to the end of the earth but to each there own. An argument can only end badly and I only intend to correct the manufacturing in China bit.

No disrespect to your experience by the way.


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Posted from my phone.

 

[XeRay]

You do know Philips makes a small subset of other bulbs as well too? We used to be a volume importer as well. They offer H1, H3, H4 (bi-xenon), H7, H11, 9005, 9006. Unfortunately my hard link image was removed but if you search "Philips HID redflagdeals" you'll find it. We're talking the real deal, not "similar" or "end of line" or "knockoffs". We mainly offered them to large machinery operators like loaders and aircraft maintenance (primarily cleaning) and a small skid to a heli provider.

Unfortunately the general public is more interested in a $50 kit so no more consumer sales (for us that is).

Alas I'd defend my position to the end of the earth but to each there own. An argument can only end badly and I only intend to correct the manufacturing in China bit.

No disrespect to your experience by the way.


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Posted from my phone.

Now I see your angle, if you were buying those as real Philips made products you were conned. Also, that "philips" link authentication website is as phoney (not Philips) as it gets.
Back When Philips offered that similar style of ballast it was made by Hella for them as a private label Philips product. The Chinese have been making knockoffs of that shape of ballast for about 10 years. Philips stopped offering that style ballast at least a few years ago. Philips has never offered re-based HID bulbs using their own burners or any other burners for that matter. However, I do know that Philips of Hong Kong did package some conversion kits for the Asian market, but they were always illegal in the USA and Canada. They were never supposed to get out of Asia.

 

[FRITZHID]

i personally would love to find a site for affordable but high quality H-4 bi-xenon bulbs!

 

[Ualnosaj]

Philips stopped offering that style ballast at least a few years ago.... However, I do know that Philips of Hong Kong did package some conversion kits for the Asian market, but they were always illegal in the USA and Canada. They were never supposed to get out of Asia.

Without getting into it further or addressing the other points, this one of yours hits the nail on the head. You'll also notice that post is from 2009. The validation link is directly accessible off the Philips Asia Pacific site. Again no disrespect to your existing knowledge.




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Posted from my phone.

 

[LuxLuthor]

Dan, we are lucky to have your expertise offered to us at this website. I appreciate your dedication and for this information. :thumbsup:

I didn't see any fatboys at the hidsbulbzrus.com

 

[XeRay]

I didn't see any fatboys at the hidsbulbzrus.com

The demand is too low to bother putting them there.

 

[David18]

http://www.hidbulbzrus.com/vs.pdf

This is excellent investigation but unfortunately the Chinese will just use this is a guidebook to "improve" their fakes.

I don't know why everyone is always sucking up to the Chinese - they are doing tremendous damage to Western economies due to their failure to resepect intellectual property law.

 

[get-lit]

... and currency valuation ... and environmental impact ... and human dignity

 

[XeRay]

This is excellent investigation but unfortunately the Chinese will just use this is a guidebook to "improve" their fakes.
I don't know why everyone is always sucking up to the Chinese - they are doing tremendous damage to Western economies due to their failure to resepect intellectual property law.

We considered this issue when we published it, but decided people needed to know. No use to others if we keep it a secret. We also kept a few "aces" up our sleeves. We kept a few details to ourselves, that are not so obvious but easily discerned (detected) when you are aware of them. We figured what we provided was plenty for now. If they make the changes necessary to resolve the cosmetic issues we mentioned it will cost them money, cut into the profits. They may not be motivated to do that.

 

[aa909]

We considered this issue when we published it, but decided people needed to know. No use to others if we keep it a secret. We also kept a few "aces" up our sleeves. We kept a few details to ourselves, that are not so obvious but easily discerned (detected) when you are aware of them. We figured what we provided was plenty for now. If they make the changes necessary to resolve the cosmetic issues we mentioned it will cost them money, cut into the profits. They may not be motivated to do that.

XeRay,

Excellent thread, I wish I had come across this thread a week ago. In any case I purchased what I think are genuine Philips D2s 6000K 85122WX HIDs

I installed them last night and today I noticed that the passenger's side light has a slightly purple-hue while the driver's side has a bright white beam with a blue hue which is what is expected. The difference isn't immediately noticeable but I'm OCD so I picked up on the difference and started doing some internet searches which led me to this forum

I removed both bulbs and compared them to your FAQ which nicely details fake and real bulbs. First item of note is that the two bulbs are identical except that the one with the purplish hue has very little red salt in the chamber and the other with the true white beam with blue hue has a lot more red salt

Now moving on to the comparison, (please see the pictures on the vendors site, my bulbs look the same) I noted that the bulbs have the red salt, blue return lead, clean cut clear glass at the top and the inside notch you highlight in your pdf looks to be real as well. The one thing that has me concerned is that the production code of "M618" which is on my bulbs seems to be used on a lot of the photos I've now come across on the web. is this indicative of a fake or is it just a miscellaneous number without much significance?

Final question, is it possible these are real and that I just got one defective bulb without enough red salt, hence the purplish hue, whereas the driver's side light looks perfect

thanks in advance for taking the time to reply
Art

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Moving this to Automotive, Motorcycles Included forum.

Bill

 

[XeRay]

The chance of so many bulbs with the same production code is remote. The price of $150 for a pair of bulbs is also very suspect. Philips charges wholesale about $80 each for those so, his pricing seems impossible. A pair (Authentic) of those usually goes for well over $200 on ebay.
Philips tests every bulb for output, color and intensity, there is no way that difference you describe would have gotten past Philips QC. Maybe your seller bought some 2nds, I suppose that is possible, and could also explain the price.

 

[BVH]

Seems kinda unusual to move this HID bulb specific related thread to a general automotive/MC thread.

 

[aa909]

The chance of so many bulbs with the same production code is remote. The price of $150 for a pair of bulbs is also very suspect. Philips charges wholesale about $80 each for those so, his pricing seems impossible. A pair (Authentic) of those usually goes for well over $200 on ebay.
Philips tests every bulb for output, color and intensity, there is no way that difference you describe would have gotten past Philips QC. Maybe your seller bought some 2nds, I suppose that is possible, and could also explain the price.

thank you for the quick reply. I've found a few sellers that seem to have genuine 6000K D2S bulbs, and the price is as you described

BTW looking at the pics on the maxspeed site can you tell if there is anything that immediately rings true of a fake? the red salt seems real and my initial thought was that the vendor is somehow getting out of spec Ultinons that didn't pass QC hence the cheaper price and variation in light color, but this is just my speculation.

Last question, on one of the genuine vendors site they go into detail regarding the "pearl effect" on the purple/blue ceramic lead. I don't think you covered that in your detailed PDF but my bulbs don't seem to have the "pearl effect" but rather a matte blue lead

in any case thanks again for a very informative set of posts and for taking the time educating me and answering my questions

Art

 

[-Virgil-]

aa909 and others: The lighting modifications/products you're asking about (6000K HID bulbs) are illegal and unsafe. Rule 11 of this board prohibits advocating illegal or dangerous activity. Please stop now, thank you.

 

[XeRay]

Seems kinda unusual to move this HID bulb specific related thread to a general automotive/MC thread.

I though it belongs in both locations.. but what do I know.

 

[Phatty McPatty]

The price of $150 for a pair of bulbs is also very suspect. Philips charges wholesale about $80 each for those so, his pricing seems impossible. A pair (Authentic) of those usually goes for well over $200 on ebay.
Philips tests every bulb for output, color and intensity, there is no way that difference you describe would have gotten past Philips QC. Maybe your seller bought some 2nds, I suppose that is possible, and could also explain the price.

OK, gotta ask. Your very first post of this thread is nearly identical to the statement at the bottom of http://hidbulbzrus.com/HID_Legitimacy.html. Is this your site or were you just passing along this info? I ask because the site claims to sell authentic HID bulbs for ~70/pair. Above, you mentioned Philips charges wholesale more than double that. Were you referring to a specific Philips HID bulb or all Philips HID bulbs? I'm just looking for clarification since some of the context was removed by moderators. Obviously I'm not asking you to restate the removed content, just to clarify your pricing statement.

 

[XeRay]

OK, gotta ask. Your very first post of this thread is nearly identical to the statement at the bottom of http://hidbulbzrus.com/HID_Legitimacy.html. Is this your site or were you just passing along this info? I ask because the site claims to sell authentic HID bulbs for ~70/pair. Above, you mentioned Philips charges wholesale more than double that. Were you referring to a specific Philips HID bulb or all Philips HID bulbs? I'm just looking for clarification since some of the context was removed by moderators. Obviously I'm not asking you to restate the removed content, just to clarify your pricing statement.

I was speaking about a specific bulb type. That is my sons site.