Ferei W150

[Doc Ed]

I got my W150 from eBay for $31 - shipped!...

And I just got it in the mail today along with my XML T6.

As bright as the Ferei is, I'd like to convert it to the XML. 350, any news on your project?

 

[Doc Ed]

I guess what I want to know is that if I stick an XML T6 LED star onto the stock Ferei driver in the W150, will it work? What kind of burn-time am I looking with this modification?

 

[350xfire]

I guess what I want to know is that if I stick an XML T6 LED star onto the stock Ferei driver in the W150, will it work? What kind of burn-time am I looking with this modification?

Yes, you can put an XML in the W150... However, the stock driver will have to be replaced if you want to use the XMLs brightness. The W150 is only about 1 amp driver. You need 3 amps for the XML. Use the kaidomain P7 2.8 amp driver for that. They have a 19mm drover that will work. It's about $12.

Oh, and get the XML mounted in the smaller board... Not the full-sized star board.

 

[Doc Ed]

Thanks Hector! Exactly the info I was looking for The LED I got was on a 16mm board. Another question though: I noted that the hotspot of the XML is a bit floodier than the current Q5 using the same reflector. Did you note the same on your modded light and was backscatter a subsequent issue?

 

[350xfire]

Thanks Hector! Exactly the info I was looking for The LED I got was on a 16mm board. Another question though: I noted that the hotspot of the XML is a bit floodier than the current Q5 using the same reflector. Did you note the same on your modded light and was backscatter a subsequent issue?

Yes, the reflector being so small gives a floodier beam. I never dove mine so I can't speak for backscatter.

 

[SmokedCPU]

is the reflector the same size as a w200 one ?

are the quality check better than the W200 ones, since i wish to change of model eventought i did build some 2*18650 with MC-E or X-ML. I have 10 of ordered and none were watertight at arrival. Some even took water in a bucket, the others leak in my test pot when i put them in shallow water. They all need a oring job !

So, can i be confident with W150 or not ?

 

[350xfire]

Reflector about the same. Light very good quality. I tested mine to 265' for hours and no issues

 

[Doc Ed]

I got my 16mm XML T6 star yesterday, then it got me thinking: If the W150 driver is 1 amp, and the nominal current for the XML is 3, I would theoretically get 1/3 the max lumens but 3x the battery life? So, if the XML T6 is around 900-1000 lumens, could I get 300 lumens for 6 hours in lieu of the current W150 200 lumens for 2 hours using the same driver?

 

[DIWdiver]

At 1A, the battery life would be 3x longer than if you ran it at 3A, but would be the same as running the original led at the original current of 1A. You would, however get the 50% increase in output.

The W150 uses a single 18650, at 2.2-2.6 amp-hours. The battery voltage is a little higher than the LED voltage, so a buck switching driver could give you a little more output current that input current, so maybe you get 3 A-h into the LED. At 1A, you'd expect around 3 hours. If the driver is any good, with an XML you will get full (300 lm) brightness until the battery is pretty nearly dead, then it will taper off fairly quickly. A higher voltage LED would make the brightness start tapering off sooner, but the ultimate life would probably be similar.

 

[Doc Ed]

Sounds like I'm good to go then - longer battery life and a slight increase in brightness. I guess as long as I don't keep my expectations too high, this would be a quick swap - then maybe when the right driver comes along, the swap will be complete.

 

[globalmark]

Hi

I was just reading your Modd on the Ferei W150 torch from Last year -
i want also to Modd one of these with a New XT-E Royal Blue (+ new driver which I had Advice on Already a 3xAMC7135 seems Best Bet) - However I Did not receive my torch yet and wanted to Know about the Bulb/Module
Does it take a Drop-In module ? or are the driver/Led connected to the torch ?
I want to make a Drop-In for the Torch so I want to Buy a new Empty Reflector Drop-in Kit from Deal extreme like this :-
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/26-5mm-aluminum-reflector-drop-in-module-set-without-emitter-5955

But I have no Idea the Size of the One in the Torch Now - Could you please let me know the Size of the Reflector/Module/drop-in so I can order the Correct Kit.

Thanks Mark

 

[arek98]

Hi Mark (Hector, sorry for stepping in)

It does not take drop-in. It has its own heatsink insert with driver, reed switch and LED mounted to it.
See my post here and below is couple additional pictures of tube and heatsink.

As you see there is not a lot of space inside.
Also driver needs to be turned on/off by reed.
Driver is 17mm in diameter. One in disassembled picture is not from this light.

You wrote that you thinking about 3 AMC chips. This is about 1A output which is what original driver does. Original driver also does not have an inductor which means it is linear as AMC.

I would keep original driver and replace just LED with blue one (royal blue for bioluminescence?). Original LED board is about 16mm but you can go up to 18mm (diameter or aluminum heatsink).

Click on picture for bigger version.


Original heatsink with driver, read switch (on side inside black shrink tube). XR-E LED, o-ring acts as insulation and






Other heatsink inside, not much space here. Driver in picture is different used just as contact board.



Tube where whole above assembly goes.





BTW, Ferei is a VERY well build (body I mean, hard to tell about electronics).

Arek

 

[globalmark]

Hi Arek

Wow thanks for Great Info and all the details - Sounds like I can just Put the royal Blue straight in the head is is same 1amp - and sounds like you are doing same thing as me - I am a Diving Instructor and want to Play around with a Fluorescence - Corals - and from What I have read everywhere that most people use a Royal Blue 455nm Wavelength torch (nightsea and glowdive, etc) and this new Cree LED is the correct Wave-lenght - so Thought i would give it a Try and see how it go's .
the Guy on the GLOWDIVE site obviously used this Flashlight with a different Bulb so looked like a Good starting point.
http://reefphoto.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=95_19&products_id=5379

Have you seen anywhere that sells spare light heads - as would love to keep one white light and have a Spare head I can MOD and keep as a Blue One (or would that not be possible as hard to remove light Bulb/head ) ??

Any other info or useful advice you have on this topic would also be helpful
I will post my Modd when i get all the bits

Thanks Mark

 

[arek98]

Yes, get 10mm round or square board from Cutter and it should be just simple board replacement. Only thing is that because of thru hole in top of the heatsink small board will have less contact. Unfortunaltelly they don't have 16mm board. Filing sides of 20mm star may be an option too (need to be careful not to short contacts to the board). Given 3.45 USD price it may be worth a try.

Light is easy to disassemble. Heatsink just sits in the tube (with little thermal compound). After unscrewing head you can push it from other side and it goes out. You could have second one and replace them as needed. Unfortunatelly I don't think you can buy separate parts.

I see the light itself sells for about $80-$90 on-line now. I guess I was lucky when I bough it when it showed up first. I paid 90 USD for two.

I believe you will need yelow filter to see bioluminescence with blue LED.

Good luck with you project.

 

[arek98]

Wow, $275 for this UV Glow Dive comparing to about $80 for white LED Ferei. I wonder what they did with original light.

On one hand it would look like simple board swap with UV LED. Ledengin LZ1 would work, even one sold on star, about 30USD retail, not that much power as Nichia but easier to install in this light and would fit a reflector, 400nm can go to 1A according to spec. 365nm has 700mA peak but I believe if cooled properly it could do 1A.

On the other hand problem with UV is that it has high Vf (about 3.9-4.1V) and linear driver with one Li-Ion will not be very good match. It will regulate only on very top of battery charge and only when load is relatively low (on high load battery voltage will sag and go below LED Vf much sooner, for some "ebay batteries" 1A may be already high load). This is assuming you will not get very high Vf LED, then it will not regulate at all. This is why I replaced driver in GD500 in my light (it is boost-buck regulator).

If they worked with Ferei to get host only and redesigned driver for UV LED and one Li-Ion (basically using boost-buck is needed) then nice. Price is still little high, but well, this is a niche product and volumes are low). However if they just swapped emitter then this is not a good light IMO.

 

[globalmark]

Hi arek98

Sorry i am a Bit of a Novice so I did not understand all you said But got the Gist of it - I just got the Lamp of Ebay (chargerstore) for $45us - I tried to get a Buy it now or make a Offer on other ones of there Ferei W150 but they would not go that Low. So had to wait until Auction finished But they had 5 and keep re-listing and no one else Bit so got that price (and now with Australian Dollar great only $39 aus dollars .

I have ordered 3 of these :- https://illuminationsupply.com/cree...9.html?zenid=b4e30a9018068272e10dd08f3f2ed92a

I tried to Order stuff from Cutter but he wanted $16 postage for 1hr away when i know Local post Charges only $1.20 so I ordered from the USA and he only charges $3.65 shipping

I have already Ordered a Large Sheet of yellow Barrier Filter 12"X9" from Nightsea for $65 and a Couple of Blue Excitation Filters 2-3/4" round at $50 each - as I also want to try this underwater Photography and you can use the Excition (blue) filters on your Strobes and yellow on your Lens - I bought a Large sheet of yellow as cheapest way and will cut out a Couple of Camera lens filters and mask Covers - is a Acrylic material so easy to cut with a Fret saw or similar (Blue Excitation Filters are Glass)

The UV glow light - I know Nightsea did not use cree led but thought i would give it a Try with this new XT-E it's the right wavelength 455nm so fingers crossed and much cheaper .

Whats a Liner Driver ? compared to other drivers ??
What size is Original Board - you say can File 20mm down ? as I have ordered the LED on 10mm Boards at the moment
Not sure I understand the Last couple of bits in Last post sorry

Thanks For Help Mark

p.s Spare Light Head - I have just emailed Ferei and let you know what they say , Charger store said they would sell me one for $28 (bit to much as torch only cost $45) - but after i get torch I will ask Local engineering company How much to Make ( as only a need solid Alu and drill a Couple Holes and Thread at Bottom probably can Skip as can be soldered on for Cheaper .. Don't think Necessary to have tabs on the top so easier to make ..
Also sure a Few people on this site with Lathes can Machine a Few for a Price..

 

[arek98]

Original board is a hair bigger than 16mm. Heatsink diameter (on this end it has little lip) is little more than 18mm. So, filing 20mm star may work.

On the other hand if you already ordered 10mm round boards you may try to find some cooper sheet 0.5-1mm thick and insert it between board and heatsink. Just an idea to improve heat transfer.


Linear driver works kind as a resistor. It will keep given current on output and any excess voltage will be dropped on the driver. Let say you have 1A LED current, you have 4V input (fresh Li-Ion under load) and LED with 3.5V Vf at that current (1A). It means that driver needs to "loose" somewhere 0.5V and it will do that and will dissipate corresponding power (0.5W in that case 0.5V*1A).

Because of how it works it is good only when input voltage is little bigger than output voltage. Otherwise power that needs to be dissipated is too high. Even if driver cooling is adequate, efficiency goes down.

With linear driver when input voltage goes below required output voltage, driver will usually go into direct drive, meaning that it will dissipate nothing (minus some always present loses) and all input voltage will go to LED. It means that after it happens driver efficiency is almost 100%. Of course it no longer supplies required current. Current is lower and correlates to voltage applied to LED.

Other types of drivers are switching ones, where inductor acts as energy reservoir and allows voltage conversion. They may be configured as buck (lower output voltage than input), boost (higher output V than input, or boost-buck (output voltage may be higher or lower than input). Boost-buck are not that common since they are usually more complex and expensive (often they require two inductors that are probably most expensive part of a driver and also the biggest one which is a big factor as well).
Efficiency of switching drivers can be very high, some go above 95% but low quality driver can be really bad (like 50%).

In Ferei case I think they went with linear because of size. Inductor needed for that driver would not fit it heatsink they use. But then I don't see a problem with designing this light pretty much the same but with heatsink that would accommodate switching driver.

If you are ever looking for LED driver and would not mind spending more than few $ for eBay stuff, than IMO George at TaskLed makes best drivers available, check them out.

 

[globalmark]

Thanks for the Info Mate
I Had a Reply from Ferei but they said I have to contact the dealer here in Australia- and maybe they can sell me one from a Broken returned torch or something (there english was not great so hard to understand completely) - I will Let you know what they tell me about replacement heads.
Cheers Mark

 

[arek98]

When you asking them about heads make sure that you will get heatsink assembly (at least aluminum part and brass part that screws on it). Best would be whole piece with working driver. This is not a part of head, so they may send you a head itself and you still won't have needed piece.

This is all you need if you need replacable "light engines". It goes inside a tube and head (with reflector mounted in it) screws on.
You can send them this picture and tell that this is what you need.

 

[globalmark]

Hi akrek98

Cheers for that - i did try and explain and actually did send them the link from this picture on last post (hope you don't mind) - but not sure what it was called so Thanks again
Mark