Flashlights vs EMP Electro Magnetic Pulse

[fyrstormer]

While it is fine to store our disliked unused flashlights in faraday cages, and I'm trying to do that, the real focus of this discussion to me, is what about our best, top of the line flashlights and beloved EDC lights, our blackout lights on the shelves, in other words the lights that are not stored in faraday cages and the ones we would most want in an emergency.

I would like to hear more focus purely on the question of whether our led flashlights can be depended on being usable after an EMP, will my Fenix AA lights still be operating?

I have spares of my favorite flashlights in my fire safe, in case I lose the ones I carry with me, and to keep them from being stolen. I suppose they would also be protected against EMP, assuming I survive the explosion.

 

[kengps]

I have spares of my favorite flashlights in my fire safe, in case I lose the ones I carry with me, and to keep them from being stolen. I suppose they would also be protected against EMP, assuming I survive the explosion.

An EMP attack would not produce a killer explosion. Read the Federal Governments EMP commission report. It is a very long read, be warned. It details about every system in the USA. I learned a lot about how the US works and runs. It basically says one atomic device detonated at an altitude of 250 miles over the central USA would wipe out the electronics in 80% of the USA land area. The electric grid, communications, internet, pipeline systems, Banking, money, all gone. The possibility of resuming life as we know it would take years, if ever. Just about everything is controlled by electronic sensors and switches these days. BTW, they did say most cars will continue to run. Getting fuel for them is the problem when the economy stops.

Some solar chargers, batteries, and efficient LED lights with long runtime would sure be a luxury. Put some in an ammo can, along with a solar/crank radio.

Here's some EMP Commission trivia for you.....The USA Electric grid consist of the West Intertie, East Intertie, and Texas.

Also, a very powerful solar storm could damage the electric grid. Replacing the largest transformers would take years. about the same outcome as an EMP attack.

 

[Philip2]

Wrapping a survival radio in aluminum foil, may IMO protect it from EMP.

In a survival radio a low power flashlight, handcrank and solar panel should be integrated.

In a disaster situation you might have to evacuate without a motor vehicle, with a backpack, bicycle, inflatable rowing boat or small cart.

If your batteries run dead, or your your flashlight would crash for whatever reason, you could rely on a handcrank/solar backup flashlight or candle. Or on an improvised oil lamp with a improvised wick, that runs on fat or vegetable oil.

Or we could sleep and wait till the sun comes up, as our ancesters have done for hundred thousands of years.

 

[bluemax_1]

Wrapping a survival radio in aluminum foil, may IMO protect it from EMP.

In a survival radio a low power flashlight, handcrank and solar panel should be integrated.

In a disaster situation you might have to evacuate without a motor vehicle, with a backpack, bicycle, inflatable rowing boat or small cart.

If your batteries run dead, or your your flashlight would crash for whatever reason, you could rely on a handcrank/solar backup flashlight or candle. Or on an improvised oil lamp with a improvised wick, that runs on fat or vegetable oil.

Or we could sleep and wait till the sun comes up, as our ancesters have done for hundred thousands of years.

While the concept of a hand crank radio/flashlight sounds great for preparedness, does anyone know of any really reliable units that can be run for a decent amount of time and used continually without some sort of failure? If so, could you post up the brand and model?

All the ones I've seen or used apparently aren't made for serious use (eg. 5-minutes of cranking for 15-20 minutes of use. Or 5-minutes of cranking for 1-2 hours of use, but it doesn't work for more than 10 uses before breaking).


Max

 

[Poppy]

I'm not so sure, it depends on how the ECU will act once it detect a malfunction on external sensors/accessory circuits. It's hard to judge since it depend on the ECU's program.
Moreover, there might be some unshielded wiring that in a really strong EMP event will pick up some strong transitory frying sensors or ECU.

<snip>

The crankshaft position sensor, and the camshaft position sensors are absolutley needed, or the engine won't run, I'm thinking that most of the other sensors if fried, can be unplugged, and if the ignition system is still intact, then it should run. The PCM will have stored values for those disconnected sensors, and will just run the engine based on them... essentially running blindly.

 

[mattheww50]

Google'd it, Site:CPF.org EMP to find:
If the EMP is strong enough to kill your light, you're probably just prolonging the inevitable unless you already live on a farm with seed re-use, twenty armed men, and a bullet-loading press. Very few people have test rigs that really check for the effects of a large-scale EMP event. Smaller test rigs can be made, and guesses can be made. This is complicated because an EMP is a multistage event.

Edit: I believe that I have killed flashlights with static discharges. This is certainly different from an EMP, but then I spend time in 200kV static fields, not powerful,l changing magnetic effects.

Most small electrical/electronic devices are likely to survive an EMP attack virtually unscathed. EMP damage depends upon producing large induced voltages in devices. The longer the wires that are attached, the more energy that can be delivered. This is why the power grid and telephone network (pre-fiber optic) are so vulnerable. Miles and miles of cable= enormous induced voltages. The voltages you can induce when we are only talking about a few centimeters of wire are small even in the presence of very strong fields.

We actually do have pretty good data about large EMP events. I suspect most of it is classified. We inadventently created one in the early 1960's with a Nuclear Weapons test that did considerable damage to parts of Hawaii. Of course it wasn't recognized as EMP damage until long after the fact.

IN any event, a Flashlight typically has pretty short wiring runs, particular the portions outside the body, which is essentially a Faraday cage. As a result it is very difficult to come up with scenarios where the induced voltages would be sufficient to cause damage at Field strength's that would not also do great damage to the human body.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

The hole in the conductive shell can (under tricky-to-define) certain conditions of frequency and orientation, concentrate the effects inside the shell. Penetrations in faraday cages require careful design to mitigate this effect. Of course, the shell of a flashlight is a pretty small collector.

 

[Philip2]

While the concept of a hand crank radio/flashlight sounds great for preparedness, does anyone know of any really reliable units that can be run for a decent amount of time and used continually without some sort of failure? If so, could you post up the brand and model?

All the ones I've seen or used apparently aren't made for serious use (eg. 5-minutes of cranking for 15-20 minutes of use. Or 5-minutes of cranking for 1-2 hours of use, but it doesn't work for more than 10 uses before breaking).

Google: "hand crank" solar charge radio review 2013

 

[StarHalo]

Google: "hand crank" solar charge radio review 2013

Just head over to CPF's radio thread.

 

[MichaelW]

I accidently contacted two live contacts in the Edison base of the close light socket. The screwdriver tip melted in a nice bright spark. [I was tightening loose contacts]
I was streaming audio to the computer, and the router, which is 10 feet away (in 3d measurement, and through 4 layers of drywall-if that has any attenuation properties?), just stopped working.
I had to unplug/re-plug, lucky for my wallet, it worked.

So for WW3, I imagine the Russians will attempt a simultaneous, or near simultaneous exo-atmospheric detonation of their biggest EMP device, ~200 miles up over Salt Lake City, Utah & Indianapolis, Indiana.
That gets everybody, and the middle strip: ND, SD, NB, KS, OK, TX twice, but at a slightly lower intensity.
If you are in Alaska & Hawaii, well, you had better already be self-sufficient before the party starts.

 

[bluemax_1]

Google: "hand crank" solar charge radio review 2013

Just head over to CPF's radio thread.

Thanks. Checked out several of those and many (most?) have very mixed reviews. I might give the Ambient Weather 111B a shot.


Max

 

[StarHalo]

I might give the Ambient Weather 111B a shot.

That particular model is a good design with the exception of its digital display - this kind of display drains the battery just to show you time/tune info, more so with backlighting. I would recommend instead the CCrane CC Solar Observer, which has the same features but an analog display, so the battery goes only towards audibly operating the radio, giving you notably better battery life. It works so well that the CC Solar can operate with no battery whatsoever; even with its internal battery disconnected/destroyed, it can continue live radio playback on sunlight alone - digital radios need too much current to pull this off.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

If one goes through an EMP event big enough to shut down something as small as a flashlight, flashlights will be the very least of one's problems...

 

[Paladin]

For a well written but fictional novel regarding how an EMP might effect society, read "One Second After" by Willian R. Forstchen. Type 1 Diabetics, you won't be around long enough to starve. Paladin

 

[idleprocess]

Opinions on this subject are certainly mixed. I suspect that, short of having prepared for and indeed be presently living the post-disaster lifestyle in a self-sufficient fashion, preparing for it is somewhat futile.

Nuclear weapons produce EMP's by their nature, but they're not the only source of destructive EMP's. There are plenty of non-nuclear designs for broad area-of-effect weapons - with the explosively-pumped flux compression generator arguably being the oldest, best known - and likely least potent. In the event of a major event where EMP's are used, I would not be surprised if waves of these devices are deployed so as to destroy backup equipment deployed after each strike.

Boeing recently demonstrated a missile-like munition (perhaps it was a reusable drone) capable of transmitting a directed pulse over an area that destroyed most electronics targeted (as well as the monitoring equipment). I know that there numerous plans for electronic disruptors (essentially focused microwave transmitters) varying from handheld to truck-sized that wreak havoc on devices within range.

Keeping flashlights, radios, small solar panels, hand-crank generators, batteries, whatnot in small faraday cages such as ammunition cans, altoid tins, whatnot might keep them alive until after it's all over, but with the industrial economy thoroughly and irreparably broken, it will be the dying embers of the industrial age as you are thrust into mid-19th century technology without the benefit of a working mid 19th-century society.

 

[idleprocess]

The longer the wires that are attached, the more energy that can be delivered. This is why the power grid and telephone network (pre-fiber optic) are so vulnerable. Miles and miles of cable= enormous induced voltages.

While the fibers themselves in a fiber-optic network will be unaffected by a massive EMP event (as opposed to the arcing/breaking in copper cables / cross-connect boxes), odds are every bit of active equipment connected to it that makes the network function is connected to some sort of electrical grid that will merrily fry all them.

 

[Norman]

Boeing recently demonstrated a missile-like munition (perhaps it was a reusable drone) capable of transmitting a directed pulse over an area that destroyed most electronics targeted (as well as the monitoring equipment).

Ah, you must be referring to Boeing's Counter-electronics High-powered Microwave Advanced Missile Project (CHAMP) system. Basically, it's an EMP generator mounted on a (cruise) missile. It can fly around firing EMP bursts over multiple targets.

Video here
http://www.boeing.com/Features/2012/10/bds_champ_10_22_12.html
or, apparently, here
http://news.discovery.com/tech/champ-drone-emp-121026.html