Glass versus plastic headlight lenses

[crdiscoverer]

The BMW E36 also had plastic lenses in the US and glass for EU.

I definitely consider glass better, but there comes a point where glass is unsalvageable, especially if you do a lot of highway driving and the pitting damages it significantly. There's simply no amount of polishing that can restore them.

Whereas plastic, you can sand it down and polish it back to new. It is more flexible when taking rock chips.

My E39 has plastic headlight lenses and glass fog lights. I can get the headlights to look brand new again with a polish (and I have done so) but the fog lights can't be restored, at least not with common household tools at my disposal.

 

[N8N]

The BMW E36 also had plastic lenses in the US and glass for EU.

I definitely consider glass better, but there comes a point where glass is unsalvageable, especially if you do a lot of highway driving and the pitting damages it significantly. There's simply no amount of polishing that can restore them.

Whereas plastic, you can sand it down and polish it back to new. It is more flexible when taking rock chips.

My E39 has plastic headlight lenses and glass fog lights. I can get the headlights to look brand new again with a polish (and I have done so) but the fog lights can't be restored, at least not with common household tools at my disposal.

At least with the VWs I'm familiar with, you can buy replacement glass (not the whole headlamp assembly)

I have a pair of ECE lights on deck for my Mk4 GTI and in the box is some plastic film. We will see if that film has any noticeable effect on the lights. Unfortunately that project got back burnered because the car was actually totaled in April, the headlights showed up while the rear of the car was being rebuilt :/ (I actually did get it fixed, although it still needs a new windshield)

 

[Mr305WorldWide]

My vote goes to glass since they tend to be more durable against scratches that accumulates from washing.

 

[Unicorn]

My vote goes to glass since they tend to be more durable against scratches that accumulates from washing.

Not just from washing, but from driving in areas with a lot of sand and gritty dust.

 

[alpg88]

Well, we can only wish for glass headlights, but they are not coming back. However it seems like trend on large headlights is slowing down, DRl/turns/parking clusters move up, and headlights move lower, and become a smaller separate unit, deep inside bumpers, (BMW, Nissans, Hyundai ), salt, sand , washing is not what affect light performance as much as uv damage to a uv protective coating that becomes a yellow haze. It is too early to say, since this trend is new, but such lights may stay clear longer.

 

[John_Galt]

What sucks about these new, much lower lighting positions, is between the lamp height and increasing combinations of sensors, mounting auxiliary lamps of any type is becoming extremely difficult to do, and this when sealed LED lamps are becoming the norm even on lower priced vehicles. I think we will see the same issues of poor performance and lack of upgradeability that we went through with sealed beams- at 100x the cost for replacement.

At least sealed beams were cheap. :/

 

[alpg88]

Well that is the price we pay for progress. I think even poor performance light today is way better than poor performance sealed beam of the past.

 

[F89]

I had that problem recently when I decided I wanted more light for unlit and rural roads.
If I were to mount a nudge bar to position the driving lights, I'd have to move some sonar thing that tracks vehicles in front for cruise control etc and mount it to a bracket in another position.
After some thought and fettling I ended up mounting them in the lower air intake. It's in front of the intercooler but they don't restrict air flow.

When I ordered my car I specifically didn't want LED lights because I just don't like what's used and available for automotive use. While nice LEDs certainly exist, I'm yet to see it on a car.

So when it came to driving lights I wanted halogen to match all my other lights and they had to be compact yet useful. There were plenty of LED varieties available but I eventually found some new old stock Made in Germany Hella FF75s (glass lenses). I'm using Osram Nightbreaker 200 H7 globes in them and I'm really happy with them.

The mounted height isn't ideal but with some careful aiming they work fantastically.
I have them connected to the high beam (via a relay) with a master switch (which is a legal requirement but also the most practical way).

I took these photos before I'd finished installing them (with the stock bulbs still in, from memory). I never tried the stock bulbs but the Nightbreaker 200 throw a heap in these compact lights.

 

[Monocrom]

Bah! Car-makers want to maximize profit.
Don't care how they do so. If they find a cheaper option for whatever part they're using now on their cars, they'll start using the cheaper option unless there's a Federal law that prevents them from doing so.

 

[Poppy]

I had that problem recently when I decided I wanted more light for unlit and rural roads.
If I were to mount a nudge bar to position the driving lights, I'd have to move some sonar thing that tracks vehicles in front for cruise control etc and mount it to a bracket in another position.
After some thought and fettling I ended up mounting them in the lower air intake. It's in front of the intercooler but they don't restrict air flow.

When I ordered my car I specifically didn't want LED lights because I just don't like what's used and available for automotive use. While nice LEDs certainly exist, I'm yet to see it on a car.

So when it came to driving lights I wanted halogen to match all my other lights and they had to be compact yet useful. There were plenty of LED varieties available but I eventually found some new old stock Made in Germany Hella FF75s (glass lenses). I'm using Osram Nightbreaker 200 H7 globes in them and I'm really happy with them.

The mounted height isn't ideal but with some careful aiming they work fantastically.
I have them connected to the high beam (via a relay) with a master switch (which is a legal requirement but also the most practical way).

I took these photos before I'd finished installing them (with the stock bulbs still in, from memory). I never tried the stock bulbs but the Nightbreaker 200 throw a heap in these compact lights.

View attachment 51458View attachment 51457

looks great!

 

[JustAnOldFashionedLEDGuy]

When I ordered my car I specifically didn't want LED lights because I just don't like what's used and available for automotive use. While nice LEDs certainly exist, I'm yet to see it on a car.

Reallllyyy.... There is not a halogen bulb headlight out there that can touch even the basic Corolla LED lights. Headlights are for seeing, being seen and not impacting other drivers, not vanity or "personal preference".

 

[F89]

Reallllyyy.... There is not a halogen bulb headlight out there that can touch even the basic Corolla LED lights. Headlights are for seeing, being seen and not impacting other drivers, not vanity or "personal preference".

Yes really.
No impacting other drivers, vanity or personal preference here.

My preference is based on tried and tested experience.

 

[JustAnOldFashionedLEDGuy]

Yes really.
No impacting other drivers, vanity or personal preference here.

My preference is based on tried and tested experience.

No it is based on your feelings and feelings are a very poor measure of effective lighting performance.

 

[F89]

That's your opinion.

 

[JustAnOldFashionedLEDGuy]

That's your opinion.

No, that is the voice of experience.

 

[N8N]

What sucks about these new, much lower lighting positions, is between the lamp height and increasing combinations of sensors, mounting auxiliary lamps of any type is becoming extremely difficult to do, and this when sealed LED lamps are becoming the norm even on lower priced vehicles. I think we will see the same issues of poor performance and lack of upgradeability that we went through with sealed beams- at 100x the cost for replacement.

At least sealed beams were cheap. :/

Thing is sealed beams are easily upgradeable, as both drop in ECE H4 units and now quality LED drop ins are available. When looking for a vehicle, I'd consider the presence of sealed beams a plus. Unfortunately I no longer have such a vehicle as my old Heep died just about a year ago - I still have the Truck-Lites I put on it however.

 

[JustAnOldFashionedLEDGuy]

What sucks about these new, much lower lighting positions, is between the lamp height and increasing combinations of sensors, mounting auxiliary lamps of any type is becoming extremely difficult to do, and this when sealed LED lamps are becoming the norm even on lower priced vehicles. I think we will see the same issues of poor performance and lack of upgradeability that we went through with sealed beams- at 100x the cost for replacement.

At least sealed beams were cheap. :/

I don't see many people complaining about the lighting quality from their factory HID lamps. While there may be inferior LED solutions out there, they will be few, and more likely is far better LED solutions, especially with adaptive headlights that cannot be done with other technologies nor with a simple sealed beam replacement. Long term moot point. We probably won't be driving out own cars in 20 years anyway. Way too dangerous.

 

[John_Galt]

I don't see many people complaining about the lighting quality from their factory HID lamps. While there may be inferior LED solutions out there, they will be few, and more likely is far better LED solutions, especially with adaptive headlights that cannot be done with other technologies nor with a simple sealed beam replacement. Long term moot point. We probably won't be driving out own cars in 20 years anyway. Way too dangerous.

There are plenty of inferior LED solutions out now- just check IIHS testing (flawed though it is). The issue is that these are completely non-improveable. Whereas a cheap, standard sized sealed beam could be swapped for a much higher performance lamp, and then take advantage of reasonably-frequentlt improving bulb technology, and whereas a poor performing halogen lamp could likely see some improvement with a good bulb, a sealed LED unit will likely have few aftermarket replacement options, and the few that pop up will no doubt be as poor or significantly worse in performance. We see this currently with the high dollar aftermarket LED lamps available from several vendors, like morimoto.

And I say -BAH- to anyone who cries about driving being "too dangerous a task." I'll keep driving long after its no longer legal. And I wont have the onboard nanny state BS to stop me, either.

 

[JustAnOldFashionedLEDGuy]

There are plenty of inferior LED solutions out now- just check IIHS testing (flawed though it is). The issue is that these are completely non-improveable. Whereas a cheap, standard sized sealed beam could be swapped for a much higher performance lamp, and then take advantage of reasonably-frequentlt improving bulb technology, and whereas a poor performing halogen lamp could likely see some improvement with a good bulb, a sealed LED unit will likely have few aftermarket replacement options, and the few that pop up will no doubt be as poor or significantly worse in performance. We see this currently with the high dollar aftermarket LED lamps available from several vendors, like morimoto.

And I say -BAH- to anyone who cries about driving being "too dangerous a task." I'll keep driving long after its no longer legal. And I wont have the onboard nanny state BS to stop me, either.

OOOOkay John.

Yes there are poor LED headlight. VW/Audi seems uniquely qualified to design a poor LED reflector style light, but overall with the introduction of LED, headlight quality on average is much better. Sealed beams make for compromises in vehicle design that are hard to justify when aerodynamics are considered. Hence why they tend to be only on flat front poor fuel economy vehicles.

And no John, you won't be driving on the roads long after it is illegal. You would have your car impounded like everyone else who tries. There were 40,000 motor vehicle deaths in the US last year, 1.5 million injuries. Over your life there is a significant chance you will be injured in a vehicle accident. I love driving, but it does not take much foresight to see that most driving will be automated in the near future. It is unavoidable, and ultimately beneficial. Accident rates will be significantly reduced, order of magnitude and more as time goes on. The ability of roads to carry more cars will be significantly increased. Vehicle design will change considerably as current safety features become redundant. I am sure back in the horse and buggy days there were people like you who made the same comments about their horse and buggies. We all know how that went.

The concept of a simple standard sealed beam is from the 60's. Those days are also past. Modern headlight systems including adaptive systems integrate with other vehicle systems including steering wheel position, speed, brakes, and vision systems to deliver optimized performance and like most automotive technology what start at the high end trickles down.

 

[N8N]

OOOOkay John.

Yes there are poor LED headlight. VW/Audi seems uniquely qualified to design a poor LED reflector style light, but overall with the introduction of LED, headlight quality on average is much better. Sealed beams make for compromises in vehicle design that are hard to justify when aerodynamics are considered. Hence why they tend to be only on flat front poor fuel economy vehicles.

I think VW, Audi, etc. punish us in the US for not harmonizing FMVSS 108 with various ECE regs making them design different headlights for the US market than for Germany and the rest of Europe (when functionally, there's no reason they couldn't have only two designs, one for RHD countries and a mirror image for LHD countries. However they did have some good designs, the US lights on my Mk4 GTI are actually at least subjectively good, in sharp contrast to the Corrado headlights from a decade earlier which were so awful they should have been fined for subjecting us to them.

And no John, you won't be driving on the roads long after it is illegal. You would have your car impounded like everyone else who tries. There were 40,000 motor vehicle deaths in the US last year, 1.5 million injuries. Over your life there is a significant chance you will be injured in a vehicle accident. I love driving, but it does not take much foresight to see that most driving will be automated in the near future. It is unavoidable, and ultimately beneficial. Accident rates will be significantly reduced, order of magnitude and more as time goes on. The ability of roads to carry more cars will be significantly increased. Vehicle design will change considerably as current safety features become redundant. I am sure back in the horse and buggy days there were people like you who made the same comments about their horse and buggies. We all know how that went.

The concept of a simple standard sealed beam is from the 60's. Those days are also past. Modern headlight systems including adaptive systems integrate with other vehicle systems including steering wheel position, speed, brakes, and vision systems to deliver optimized performance and like most automotive technology what start at the high end trickles down.

The sealed beam was actually introduced for the 1949 model year and clearly was an actual good idea as the same format was also widely used in Europe for decades afterward even though manufacturers weren't required to use them there. I have driven many thousands of miles in vehicles equipped with Cibié drop-in H4 sealed beam replacements and they are excellent, and better than many vehicle specific headlamps, thus making me likely to prefer a vehicle using sealed beams - the last several such that I owned were a Porsche 944 and several Jeep XJ Cherokees; in between there was a Ford F-150 which had awful headlights that managed to both be glaring to oncoming drivers and poor for allowing me to see the road/deer/etc. at the same time and had no easy upgrade path, thus reinforcing my preference for vehicles with sealed beams.