Helmet Laws

[flownosaj]

Re: Helmet Law

[ QUOTE ]
Tomas said:
I also don't relish paying for supporting an ex-riding veggie. Helmets are as much to protect society as a whole as they are to protect the individual riders.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry. If they're going fast enough you won't have to worry about that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
Much fewer cycle accidentsthat produce drains on society, ie. veggies, than people who don't wear seatbelts, drive drunk or do drugs.

-Jason

 

[Lurker]

Re: Helmet Law

In North Carolina, motorcyclists must wear a helmet, it must be DOT approved, and you must have your headlight on. I don't think dark visors are restricted. There are similar laws for automobiles (seatbelt use, child safety seats, headlights on at night and in the rain, and no riding in the back of a pick-up truck under 16 without adult supervision). Bicyclists under 16 must now wear a helmet, too.

I am not in favor of excessive goverment intervention, but these are good laws in my opinion. At the age of 17 I dismounted my motorcycle fast and hard enough to knock myself unconscious inside my helmet. It almost certainly saved my melon from serious or fatal injury. I have ridden since, but no longer consider it safe enough to enjoy, given the growing incompetence of many drivers and the ever growing size of thier vehicles.

I would support helmet-free riding only if the rider who crashes would be automatically ineligible for any insurance benefits or free medical treatment at the local emergency room or any social assistance for being disabled, but that would be politically impossible. There could be a special insurance policy just for unhelmeted riders, and that would be OK by me since I wouldn't be paying into it.

 

[Darell]

Re: Helmet Law

[ QUOTE ]
Lurker said:
I would support helmet-free riding only if the rider who crashes would be automatically ineligible for any insurance benefits......

[/ QUOTE ]
Not me! A 600 pound 75mph projectile does NOT only harm the rider if things go wrong. Case in point: I was about four minutes late to an accident that killed four people. Three of the four people were in two cars that were hit by an out-of-control motorcycle. The forth person was a pedestrian. The rider (with full-face helmet, but visor up) was hit in the eye by a bee at 65mph. While grappling at his face, he got himself into a tank-slapper and was thrown free of the bike - almost unharmed by the landing on the grassy shoulder. The bike, however, continued over the rise and smashed through the windshield of the oncoming car. That car then ran over a pedestrian.

So yeah, he was wearing a helmet, but he lost control because his face was still unprotected as if he had no helmet. The result killed others. I simply see no reason not to wear a helmet.

 

[chamenos]

Re: Helmet Law

[ QUOTE ]
Lurker said:
I have ridden since, but no longer consider it safe enough to enjoy, given the growing incompetence of many drivers and the ever growing size of thier vehicles.

[/ QUOTE ]

second that!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Brotherscrim]

Re: Helmet Law

Some people get really passionate about seatbelts and helmets. I understand where they're coming from and all, but their freedom to do whatever they want is mitigated by my right to not suffer for it. It's a simple safety issue. You wouldn't be allowed to drive your car down the road if the brakes didn't work, or the steering periodically quit responding - that's dangerous. I don't think it's unreasonable to require you take some minimal precautions to ensure your safety, especially when there's a chance that I might wind up paying for your recklessness.

 

[chamenos]

Re: Helmet Law

i agree! i think people can do whatever they want, so long as whatever they do does not carry with it any negative externalities /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Lurker]

Re: Helmet Law

Darell, I agree that wearing a helmet does make for a safer driver, which benefits other users of the roads. But I think that the primary function of a helmet is to protect the rider in a crash. Protection from bees and other small objects is important, but good glasses or goggles and hopefully also a windshield would be a reasonable alternative protection from those hazards. Not one I would choose, but I would be willing to make this small concession to the helmet-free crowd. Plus, I believe that people should be allowed to kill themselves in any reasonable way they choose: it's good for the gene pool.

But your point is well taken. You cannot be a totally safe operator without a helmet and that is another good reason to make them mandatory.

 

[brightnorm]

Re: Helmet Law

[ QUOTE ]
Lurker said:
... I have ridden since, but no longer consider it safe enough to enjoy, given the growing incompetence of many drivers and the ever growing size of thier vehicles...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention the dangerous hostility some of these bozos show to riders.

Brightnorm

 

[Darell]

Re: Helmet Law

I agree, Lurker. In fact, I have some pretty darn wild ideas about convicted felons/folks on death row... that kind of thing. We spend TONS of money trying to keep those guys alive by removing anything that could be used to kill themselves. We then put them on 24/7 "suicide watch." Uh, I'll stop here before I get myself in trouble - but I'll repeat - I agree with you.

- Darell

 

[Saaby]

Re: Helmet Law

Utah has a helmet law of some sort. AS far as Autos go, windshield and driver/passanger windows can only have a very very light tint, you can do anything you want to any window behind the driver.

 

[BentHeadTX]

Re: Helmet Law

Helmets,
I used to ride a motorcycle back in the day, in Chicago...in the rain and snow. Always wore a helmet and, thank God, never had to "need" one! Now I ride a recumbent bicycle and wear a bicycling helmet. Although it will not work at the max speeds I have attained (53MPH) it is pretty cool to mount rear view mirrors and lights on the thing.
In case you want to know the light, it is a Brinkmann Legend 2AA Q3L with NX-05 optics. A cop told me that that was the coolest thing he had ever seen on a bicycle! The 18-LED rear red flasher keeps people away from me. The reason I care about LED flashlights is due to their durability. Ever have an incandescent blow out on you at 20MPH in Korea? Scary stuff!
The only problem with helmets is that people that use them think they are "safe" so they ride like idiots. There is no point in saving your brain if you never use it. Stay safe out there!

 

[Hoghead]

Re: Helmet Law

Let those who ride decide.

 

[NightStorm]

Re: Helmet Law

I decide...yes. I will continue to wear my Arai Quantum anytime I get on my bike. Not only is it the law here in Washington state, IMHO its just plain smart. The reason accidents are called accidents is that they're not planned for and most of the time they are not the motorcyclist's fault ("I didn't see him, officer!!" the soccer mom expounds). This is why a rider should always buy a good helmet and gear (leathers, gloves, boots, etc.) for when they go down, not if they go down!! I have broken 2 helmets in my life and still can walk, retain manual dexterity, hold a intelligent conversation and chew my food. I have absolutely no doubt that this would not have been the case had I had not been wearing a helmet on these occasions. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

One of my long time fears have been that as the body count climbs because of helmetless riders, the insurance companies would lobby congress in an attempt to illegalize street use of motorcycles. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Don't let this happen!! Act responsibly when you ride (at least around other citizens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif), if not for yourself....for the rest of us. Two things to remember....No. 1_a damn good helmet costs $500, the average head injury costs over $50,000 (you do the math)....No. 2 and lastly_riding is a privilege and not a right. Stay vertical!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Later,
Dan

 

[Willmore]

Re: Helmet Law

IMHO, 'safety' laws need to be based on protecting others from *you*, not for protecting people from others or from themselves. If you want to cross the street outside of a crosswalk and take a huge risk of getting hit, that's your issue. It only is illegal because it may harm the motorist (peddle bike, motorcycle, small car, idiot driver who swerves and hurts themself/someone).

Darrel is the first person I've ever heard who passed that test. But, his example of the bee in the eye is only a justification for face shields or eye protection, not a helmet. Just happens that most helmets have face shields of some kind...

That said, I'd never get on my bike without a helmet nor my boots, nor my armored jacket, nor my armored pants, nor my leather gloves, nor failing to check the tire pressure or a dozen other quick safety checks as well as ensuring that the routine (and other) maintenance has been done and done well. This I do for my safety and the safety of others I may encounter on the road.

Should I wear safety equiptment? Heck, yeah. Should I require others to wear it? Depends on if I like them on not. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Given that I still hold the belief that "People Suck", then I'm not inclined to codify the requirement for safety equiptment into law? No.

As far as the child on the back without any protection, I'm of the belief that a parent can do whatever they do to themselves, but they have a responsibility to take care of their children.

So, I guess I have to disagree with PercaDan--and most US state laws--riding is a right. To that I'll add, parenting is a *privilege*. IMHO, one that needs to be taken away from some. Can we bring back sterilization for some crime/offenses?

Okay, I'm done... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Darell]

Re: Helmet Law

Yes, my bee example would have been solved with goggles, windshield, what have you. So I'll give another, way more extreme example that really has no point... I was hit (well, maybe *I* did the hitting - tough call) a VERY large bird, at speed. My buddy rode by this thing sitting on a fence post, and must have frightened him. The giant thing jumped off the post toward me, and before he could take his first wing downstroke, he fell like a brick basically onto the top of my helmeted head. I came *that* close to losing control, and all I felt was a thump on the lid of the helmet. If those sharp, pointy toenails had dug into my head, I think I would have been less happy.

Extreme example, I know.

My buddy ALSO almost lost control as he watched the whole episode in his morror and just about died laughing. I pulled over and could barely stand up, my knees were shaking so hard.

 

[Willmore]

Re: Helmet Law

I've seen people go off the road swerving to avoid a bird. Can we ban birds? They've always struck me as a little evil looking....

 

[hokiefritz]

Re: Helmet Law

I *always* wear my Aerostitch suit, boots, gloves, and Arai Quantum every time ride; from 35F to 105F and everywhere in between. I just got back from a tour from Oregon to Pennsylvania and back and wore everything all the time. I think it's just a smart thing to do and may save me a skin graft or even my life. However, when will all the legislation stop saving us from ourselves? Part of the problem is that fewer and fewer people take responsibility for themselves while expecting society as a whole to provide for their needs. Riding a motorcycle without proper protection is risky but so is skiing, mountain climbing, smoking, promiscuous sex and so forth, yet there is no government mandated safety equipment for these activities in which an accident can affect others - yet. The problem isn't people engaging in risky activity but rather it is people not being willing to accept responsibility for their own actions. That's one reason we have so many laws.

I certainly would not lobby against a helmet law (required in Oregon) or even seatbelt laws, but at some point individuals need to be responsible for themselves and not depend on the government to make their decisions for them. An example of [being forced to take] responsibility is mountain climbers that become lost are often charged for their rescue and I agree with this as mountain climber. No matter what activity someone is engaged in, regardless if they are safe or reckless, they should be completely responsible for the outcome of their actions. Of course the catch is holding people accountable for such actions, which seems like a rarity in such a litigious society such as the US.

 

[ikendu]

EMPOWERTORCH said: What is the situation in your countries?

In Iowa (in the USA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), we are not required to wear helmets.

I rode motorcycles for years and owned 5 different models. I finally quit at about age 45 after having so many close calls (mostly from other drivers) that I figured my luck was about up.

I ALWAYS wore a helmet...my wife and children also wore helmets whenever they rode along.

Having said that... I'm a big believer in letting people do whatever they want so long as it does not endanger others or infringe on their rights. So...here's MHO:

Helmets should not be required for the driver.
An insurance requirement is a sensible idea.
Eye protection SHOULD be required (to maintain control).
Children (too young to choose wisely) should be required to wear helmets.

IMHO...Adults should not be required to wear helmets but any adult is crazy not to wear one.

 

[Darell]

[ QUOTE ]
ikendu said:
Having said that... I'm a big believer in letting people do whatever they want so long as it does not endanger others or infringe on their rights.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll go out on a limb here, and guess that we can ALL agree on this. It is the "endangering others" part that is less clear in my mind.

 

[Slick]

[ QUOTE ]
Darkaway said:

I don't believe in much government regulation of anything, but I don't want to pay for a 21 year old accident victim to be on a life support system for the rest of his days when maybe a helmet could have saved him.

[/ QUOTE ]

How funny.... I see that you too have bought into the HELMET LIE... It continues to amaze me how easily people are duped.

Let me explain.. If helmets "save lives", then that helmet is more likely to cost you more money since the crash victim will have a better chance of surviving RIGHT??? If the guy died it would be cheaper than the hospital stay, so it's nothing more than a LIE that helmet laws are there to reduce costs to tax paying citizens.

Why do I think this way? Well, I've been riding motorcycles for 32 years and I prefer to think that I know when it's in my best interest to wear a helmet. There are times that it is too hazardous to wear a helmet, and I simply will not ride.

I have sat in 106+ degree heat on dead black asphalt in heavy traffic with every other vehicle around me. With the heat rising up off of my motor in these conditions, I have seen heat induced halucinations.. The fact is that your heat is a "radiator" of your body's heat. Seal in your head, and you're headed for disaster..

Helmet laws are not about safety, but rather a tool to leverage you from the experience of riding a motorcycle by some people think they're too "dangerous". (think "insurance companies"). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

***********************

Non-riders think you should ride to survive a crash, I prefer to ride not to crash... - and if a helmet makes me more likely to crash, it is indeed a problem.