Help me Understand Why SureFire are so Expensive

[greenstuffs]

Well i don't see any price increase in the last 4 yrs, all lights have remained at the same pricing, The M6 cost same now as 4 yrs ago when i bought it. If you take into account the inflation, the ever increasing cost of energy and raw materials Surefire have decreased it's price. Yet their service has been as good as usual and their products are as good as ever. Surefire does not uprade it's emitters every 4 month because the benefits are minimal.

The L1 CREE cost the same as the first squared body L1, the U2 has very nice upgrades yet still costs the same as the good old U2 but with features that no one has ever dreamt of. The new ARC lights seem to cost $1000 but these are not for your typical backpacker but have a much better beam than the blueish korean HID manufacturers, Look at how much polarion costs? I had the pleasure to handle one and its worth the pricetag.

There is nothing overpriced in the flashlight realm only expensive lights but they are worth it. If you look into the world of custom flashlights then is another step above the surefire lights.

In their infant years, they introduced a product that was functionally superior to anything that was in the market. They had a marvelous advertising campaign that targeted a belwether company: Maglite. That product filled a niche that no other could. Those in true need paved the way by buying in droves. Those marginally interested then became captivated. Those already enamored were elevated from borderline flaccidity to an outright teenage testosterone frenzy. Their sales force grew and they had the reason for a price increase.

In their formative years, they introduced a dizzying groundswell of variations of the same theme that their machinists could nary differentiate between the E2, M2, C2, R2, E-I-E-I-O. Up went the prices again. Why, because their advertisement budget grew like the anecdotal bodybuilder on steriods. The juice (demand) was available so Surefire injected it in their P&Ls. Fueled by enough salivatory-dripping enthusiasm from CPF to fill a small oil tanker, they created the short-lived Surefire Discussion Board (SFDB). Yet another price increase ensued, but did not deter the demand, especially not from the CPF fanbase.

Now in its mature years, where they have considerably curtailed their self-indulgent product line in response to tepid sales of those items, they now begin to offer much more egalitarian products aimed specifically at the general public; a sector they have largely ignored in favor of the military market. Their reputation firmly established, their manufacturing processes finely-tuned, and their price structure at crisp premium levels as Dr. John Matthews carefully considers a corporate buy-out that will leave him bathing daily in a tub full of Dom Perignon, the military contracts from a $420-billion Middle East war seem endless and CPF threads on new every Surefire products number no less that 250 posts each, yet another price increase is likely.

 

[Taboot]

Just buy yourself an M6, and a decent supply of CR123s and you'll see the value of Surefire lights. It's bright, it's cool, it's the best light you'll own and it's only $300-$400 depending on where you buy it. A bargain really for the best of something, IMO.

I have a grunch of SF lights and one Fenix light (P3DQ5) and I like both brands. My M6 will be the last to go though if I ever had to have a fire sale.

 

[0dBm]

Well i don't see any price increase in the last 4 yrs...

That's because what I wrote in this and every other thread in this BB as well as EDCF is largely rhetorical. Please see my sig line.

 

[adamlau]

Just buy yourself an M6...

And an M2, M3 and M4. Stick with the Millennium series and enjoy :thumbsup: .

 

[turbodog]

Surefire lights are higher priced because every light comes with a lifetime supply of clicky tailcaps. They aren't free you know.

I had an A2 that went through 3 brand new tailcaps before I got one that worked. And this wasn't the only SF light I have with a bad switch either...

 

[Crenshaw]

Surefire lights are higher priced because every light comes with a lifetime supply of clicky tailcaps. They aren't free you know.

I had an A2 that went through 3 brand new tailcaps before I got one that worked. And this wasn't the only SF light I have with a bad switch either...

:laughing:

Crenshaw

 

[LargePig]

There's a pretty good reason why SureFire are not so well known outside of the US, especially in the UK:

SureFire do not allow their US distributors to ship internationally.
This means that in the UK at least, you get the dollarpound syndrome from the authorised UK distributors/importers (USD 1=GBP 1)....

On the surefire dot com US website, the U2 Ultra is USD 279.
So here in the UK I find the U2 Ultra for GBP 252.95 roughly equal to USD 500!

So, who of you would have been prepared to spend almost double on your SureFires?

Fenix torches are the same price between US and UK.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

There's a pretty good reason why SureFire are not so well known outside of the US, especially in the UK:

SureFire do not allow their US distributors to ship internationally.
This means that in the UK at least, you get the dollarpound syndrome from the authorised UK distributors/importers (USD 1=GBP 1)....

On the surefire dot com US website, the U2 Ultra is USD 279.
So here in the UK I find the U2 Ultra for GBP 252.95 roughly equal to USD 500!

So, who of you would have been prepared to spend almost double on your SureFires?

Fenix torches are the same price between US and UK.

SureFire is damn popular in a lot of Asiatic countries such as Japan, South Korea and Singapore. They even have contracts with Military and LEO agencies over there.

BTW, I wouldn't buy stuff in Europe even if I lived there! Buy from foreign dealers. You can order from SF Asian dealers and pay almost half the price you'd pay in Britain.

 

[Monocrom]

Yes, American made products are just better built and more reliable. For example, compare a Ford or Chevy to a Honda or Toyota

The definition of irony.... Many Ford and GM vehicles are built either in Mexico or Canada. Many Honda and Toyota vehicles are built right here in America. They are made by American workers, and thus can easily be classified as "American made products."

BTW, :welcome:

 

[GPB]

I think the quality differences in "Domestic" vs "Imported" cars is more a matter of managerial philosophy and corporate culture than geography.

 

[Yucca Patrol]

That's because what I wrote in this and every other thread in this BB as well as EDCF is largely rhetorical. Please see my sig line.

Great sig line.

My sig on another board says something like this (modified for CPF)

No claim is made that the quality of flashlight related advice offered by Yucca Patrol is greater than the quality of flashlight related advice offered by other CPF members.

 

[WildChild]

There's a pretty good reason why SureFire are not so well known outside of the US, especially in the UK:

SureFire do not allow their US distributors to ship internationally.
This means that in the UK at least, you get the dollarpound syndrome from the authorised UK distributors/importers (USD 1=GBP 1)....

On the surefire dot com US website, the U2 Ultra is USD 279.
So here in the UK I find the U2 Ultra for GBP 252.95 roughly equal to USD 500!

So, who of you would have been prepared to spend almost double on your SureFires?

Fenix torches are the same price between US and UK.

Sad... Up to recently, I was finding SF dealers selling lights for 1.5X the US price even if USD and CAD are at 1:1 now! The good thing, my local SF dealer (found it recently) sells all SF lights for the US price, converted to CAD and since CAD is often slightly worth more than the USD, they are actually cheaper! For example, a G2L was $63 CAD intead of $65 USD. The guy there said the E2D was $109 CAD instead of $110 USD but I had the surprise to pay $98 + taxes for it (printed on the receipt).

 

[Handlobraesing]

well it used to be that they were at the bleeding edge of technology. they arent any more.

it used to be because of their unbeatable and unmatched warranty. now there are other companies with the same "unlimited lifetime" warranty.

now they are clinging to their reputation- one that is becoming tanished by bad led tints, and worse clickies

I'm going to have to challenge that. First, having been in business for decades make a BIG difference in financial solvency of warranty provider. I think their warranty is still close to unmatched.

Imagine yourself being a creditor. Would you put the new business in the same risk category as Surefire who's been around for decades?

or if you're lending to two different individuals borrowing the same amount with similar income making the same promise, but one has a great credit history, other not much history. Would you extend the same interest rate?

In running a business, obligations toward creditors usually come before customers, so you can expect that if a company is at higher risk of being unable to fulfill their obligations toward creditors, same goes for fulfilling their warranty liability.

Surefire's customers include corporate and public sectors purchasing them in box loads and these buyers don't want to have to deal with "do I need to allocate budget in case the warranty is not honored?"

 

[Marduke]

Surefire lights are higher priced because every light comes with a lifetime supply of clicky tailcaps. They aren't free you know.

I had an A2 that went through 3 brand new tailcaps before I got one that worked. And this wasn't the only SF light I have with a bad switch either...

I think that about sums it up. Something has to pay for all those spare parts that need replacing.

 

[BabyDoc]

. ...As for warranty: much depends on whether or not you think they warranty will be honored, or if the company even exists. NovaTac canceled the "unlimited" warranty on the EDS line so you have to ask how trustworthy the promises are.

That's news to me about Novatac. I just got a new black body 120P, there was no exclusions on the written warranty coming with the light except for the cosmetics on the light, and modifications that people made to them. I expect they will have to honor this.

 

[BabyDoc]

Has anybody noticed that it is more difficult to find discounts on name brand chinese lights than on premium US made lights. Check out Ebay and you will see what I am talking about. I just recently bought a SureFire A2 on Ebay and paid only $114 for it plus $5 shipping. It was brand new, latest version, sealed in a fresh package. The retail on this light is $195. A US made Novatac can be bought on Ebay or at Yourcournerstore.com for less than $130 even though it has a retail of $170.

On the other hand, it is difficult to find Fenix on any site, Ebay included, at anything but full retail, (minus perhaps shipping charges or CPF minimal discounts.) The same is true of Olight and Nitecore. Prices on all the chinese name brand stuff is close to full retail. There are no big bargains on them. Having said this, it seems to me that SF isn't as expensive as the list price would suggest, because you can frequently buy them at a prices far below list. You can't say the same for the name brand Chinese lights. Why? I don't know.

 

[baterija]

Disclaimer - I have a Surefire weaponlight, and I am not looking at buying another SF anytime soon. I own no Fenix products and the only ones I am remotely interested in are the E01, T1, and Tk10 because of my, and possibly only my, needs. My mall ninja score was 31%.

To answer the base question, I would say because the market will bear the price (like a good former economics grad student.) Surefire lights seem to have a relatively inelastic demand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_of_demand

Here's why I think the demand for Surefire's is inelastic:
- Actual quality. They do put a lot of effort into making their lights highly reliable. The warranty also limits substitutes, since it's a less common feature that insures long term quality by fixing issues.
- Market Segmentation - Surefire effectively provides features and add-ons that limit the available substitutes to many of their lights. There is not a Fenix, and few others, that offers as much as my SF as a weapon mounted light.
- Consumer perception/imperfect information. SF has a proven track record to stand behind their lights because they largely defined their niche. In effect that are selling long term proven quality as a feature versus other producers promised quality and shorter track record.
- Market Inefficiencies. The US Military needs to comply with the Berry Amendment, which requires them to give preference to domestically produced items. Uncle Sugar is buying a lot of lights and the law shapes those choices. Surefire only needs to be good enough and it will get big sales right now.
- More consumer perception/imperfect information. Lot's of US soldiers and marines are seen carrying Surefire lights. It's the "best supplied army in the world" so it must be the best light ...especially if you aren't aware of the Berry Amendment.
- Market segmentation. A soldier supplied with a SF gets value from choosing another when they buy a backup light with their own money. There is part similarity in the event of issues, and muscle memory in using a similar light as a backup when things go wrong. In addition it may be the one good light they have experience with so it is easy to shop for another. The initial Berry Amendment sale thus limits choices made in some other sales.
- Never underestimate the very real effect that someone who spends a lot on any item will see more value in that item. People also get utility from having an item that gives us status - we are social animals. Surefire has managed to make themselves a premium brand in the minds of those buying quality lights. Surefire can sell that feel good effect as an extra feature that again limits substitutes.

Overall there are a lot of things that shape the market and let Surefire get a premium price for their lights. What matters is what the light will really offer for your intended use. Sounds like you made the choice that what it offered was worth it to you. Hope it serves you well.:thumbsup:

 

[skyline_man]

Because when you buy a super sports car, you're not buying speed alone. Why even bother spending money on a GT-R if the only thing you care about is how fast the darn thing goes?

The Nissan GTR is not only faster than the Porsche 911 turbo, it is more technologically superior to the porker, is more roomier inside, more comfortable and has a bigger boot that you can fit a set of golf clubs in. The only thing that the Porsche beats it at is the...BADGE.

Before the GTR came out - the Porsche was the epitome of sports car. Now - even enthusiasts are saying that the Porsche is over priced. My favourite quote from Nissan's chief engineer, "Don't ask why our car is so cheap - rather ask why our competitor's cars are so expensive". The same comment can be applied to flashlights.

 

[greenstuffs]

The new GT-R is really ugly and decaff. What happened to Nissan? was it too expensive to produce an over engineered car without putting a pricetag to make it proffitable?
Like i said you can prove surefire is overpriced if you can prove a flashlight costing less than a surefire with the same built and complex design as a surefire light. Any contenders?

The Nissan GTR is not only faster than the Porsche 911 turbo, it is more technologically superior to the porker, is more roomier inside, more comfortable and has a bigger boot that you can fit a set of golf clubs in. The only thing that the Porsche beats it at is the...BADGE.

Before the GTR came out - the Porsche was the epitome of sports car. Now - even enthusiasts are saying that the Porsche is over priced. My favourite quote from Nissan's chief engineer, "Don't ask why our car is so cheap - rather ask why our competitor's cars are so expensive". The same comment can be applied to flashlights.

 

[orbital]

The Nissan GTR is not only faster than the Porsche 911 turbo, it is more technologically superior to the porker, is more roomier inside, more comfortable and has a bigger boot that you can fit a set of golf clubs in. The only thing that the Porsche beats it at is the...BADGE.

Before the GTR came out - the Porsche was the epitome of sports car. Now - even enthusiasts are saying that the Porsche is over priced. My favourite quote from Nissan's chief engineer, "Don't ask why our car is so cheap - rather ask why our competitor's cars are so expensive". The same comment can be applied to flashlights.

+

Race wins speak for themselves, especially endurance ones,
there will never be a car that comes close to a 911...ever.

That understood, I'v always liked the older GTRs looks.