High CRI LED vs. Good Incan?

[pjandyho]

I'm no expert, but there is definitely some "depth" quality that a high CRI light can provide. (Sorry, but I haven't used incan bulbs since my 8th grade science class.) And for a long time, while I was lurking on these forums, I didn't really believe any of the hype about these neutral or warm LEDs. When 4sevens released their limited runs, I just let them pass without taking much of a look at them. I thought the warmer LEDs just looked orange and weird. The beamshots on this site weren't the most convincing either. Yes, the high CRI light beamshots were definitely "different." But I wouldn't necessarily say they were better.

Then I bought a 4sevens neutral AA on CPF. (Couldn't turn it down since it was cheap and an AA body that you can't buy direct from 4sevens.) And it opened my eyes. There was definitely aspects of the beam and its color rendering and depth that I could see in real life, but not on the computer screen.

I think it's hard to have a metric for depth, but you can definitely see it with your own eyes.

Now I want the High CRI Clicky. Arrrrggghhh! And I just ordered a Clicky 170 that hasn't even come in.... (Granted, I ordered it like two days ago.) XD

Trust me, the 170 alone is not enough. The high CRI makes a good pair with the 170. Better flood and better color and depth for close up work.

 

[Hellbore]

It's only money...

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

I would like to make a note here that states that no light with a Cree emitter is high-cri.

I would also like to say that while the Ra High-CRI does use the SSC P4 emitter, it is not tightly restricted to one or two bins, at least according to what I got out of a short conversation with Henry.

I would put the Nichia NS6L183-H1 emitters at the very top end of the High-CRI LED ladder. While their rating is one point lower than the SSC High-CRI emitter, the light emitted renders colors more accurately than any other LED I've seen, and better than almost every incan I've seen. The problem with this LED is that it cannot be bought in any quantity smaller than a full reel, and the only size PCB for it is 20mm. I've used a couple of these without a PCB, but it didn't work out well....

Whoever said that we couldn't argue over something we couldn't prove is horribly mistaken

LuxLuthor: I'd be willing to send you one of the Nichia emitters I mentioned to compare with your other lights. If you're interested, shoot me a PM.

 

[pjandyho]

Hi Techno_Cowboy, is it also true that the Nichia high CRI is the least efficient compared to the SSC high CRI? Does it mean that I am able to get more lumen per watt with the SSC than I could with the Nichia? I am not too familiar with the differences between both but I have seen some comparison photos done by McGizmo and the Nichia produces more accurate colors overall.

 

[Hellbore]

Tekno_Cowboy are there any lights besides the Sundrop that use the Nichia high CRI emitter?

I would love to try it out but can't afford a Sundrop, not right now anyway. If they are even available to buy.

 

[ebow86]

A2 Aviator is only rated for 50 mins on high. I think it is still ok until you look into the fact that it runs off two CR123 versus one in the Ra clicky. I have read some claiming that they could insert RCR 123 in the Aviator but I just couldn't seem to fit them in mine. I have the flat sided body with black HAIII version.

2nd drawback is that A2 gets extremely hot when operated for long, maybe 15 mins or longer but the heat maintains after that for the whole duration. Still HDS clicky wins.

HDS clicky allows 4 different modes of brightness whereas the A2 only 2 modes with the lower mode using white 5mm LEDs that produces an angry blue. HDS wins.

The only thing I really like about the A2 is the incand color and depth perception but let me just say it is only slight better than the high CRI clicky.

I still love the A2 Aviator but I find myself reaching for it only because I just wanted to play with it and admire the incand tint. For real world applications like camping and trekking, I reach for the high CRI Ra clicky.

The aviator may be rated at 50 lumens but it's putting out way more than that, more like 80 lumens for the duration of the battery life. This has been confirmed by several memebers.

 

[pjandyho]

The aviator may be rated at 50 lumens but it's putting out way more than that, more like 80 lumens for the duration of the battery life. This has been confirmed by several memebers.

Yes that I know but for the benefit of everyone here, some of whom being newbie, I think it would be best to keep it to what Surefire has rated on paper to avoid confusion. According to Surefire, A2 Aviator has a tactical runtime of 50 mins at 50 lumens.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

...for a long time, while I was lurking on these forums, I didn't really believe any of the hype about these neutral or warm LEDs...

Sounds a lot like my story. I was happy with cool whites and thought warm LEDs were a waste of time ("Why would you want dingy yellow when you can have bright white?") until I compared the color rendering of my Quark MiNI AA to the cheap Dollar Store incandescents my kids were playing with. Suddenly the cool white looked flat and dull, so I ordered a neutral white QMiNi and was blown away by how bright colors looked. Then I ordered a high CRI Clicky and was blown away again because it really makes colors "pop". Now I no longer get jealous when my kids pull out their incandescent lights.

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

The Nichia 183 emitters are about the same output as the SSC P4 emitters. IIRC the 119 emitters by Nichia are also about the same output level, but in a different package, and even harder to get in the H1 variety.

There is someone working on a light using the Nichia emitters, though I can't remember the name off the top of my head...Neo-something I think....

 

[Th232]

Neoseikan? I remember you emailing him the datasheet a while back over on the MP.

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

That's the one, thanks :thumbsup:

 

[LuxLuthor]

LuxLuthor: I'd be willing to send you one of the Nichia emitters I mentioned to compare with your other lights. If you're interested, shoot me a PM.

As with our exploration of Krytox, and your sending me that sample which I continue to find a superb product, I highly value your opinions, and am humbled by your generosity.

I would love to try a nice setup with the Nichia, but have not seen it installed on any quality lights at a reasonable price (The Sundrop made it seem to be somewhat impractical without the lens and was a lower output than I hoped for). I Also looked at this McG topic with some comparisons, but photos are only hints on what to follow up with.

I would not know what to do with just the emitter, never having put together an LED + driver from scratch, so any "ready to go" suggestions would be great to hear about.

In the meantime, I did order that HDS High CRI model last night.

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

How about this: When I get my current project finished (keep in mind this may not be til this fall) I'll send it your way for a week of non-destructive testing

The sundrop uses the little brother of the 183 emitters I managed to get a hold of. (test parts for a whole-house lighting job that fell through) The 083's it uses are not nearly as bright as the 183 emitters.

 

[Hellbore]

How about this: When I get my current project finished (keep in mind this may not be til this fall) I'll send it your way for a week of non-destructive testing

The sundrop uses the little brother of the 183 emitters I managed to get a hold of. (test parts for a whole-house lighting job that fell through) The 083's it uses are not nearly as bright as the 183 emitters.

Any chance you would sell me a 183 emitter or two for a modding project?

 

[Tekno_Cowboy]

Nope, no chance. The reason is simply because if I sell you one, everyone else will want one, and I'll have none left for my own projects. I wouldn't be so tight with them, but it pretty much took 3 months of talking to all the right people to get the ones I do have. I've wanted to start a group buy for a while now, but I doubt I'll find enough interest for 1400 emitters....

 

[Hellbore]

Nope, no chance. The reason is simply because if I sell you one, everyone else will want one, and I'll have none left for my own projects. I wouldn't be so tight with them, but it pretty much took 3 months of talking to all the right people to get the ones I do have. I've wanted to start a group buy for a while now, but I doubt I'll find enough interest for 1400 emitters....

LOL... they are really that hard to get? Wow. Well in that case, I probably wouldn't part with them either if I was you.

 

[LuxLuthor]

How about this: When I get my current project finished (keep in mind this may not be til this fall) I'll send it your way for a week of non-destructive testing

The sundrop uses the little brother of the 183 emitters I managed to get a hold of. (test parts for a whole-house lighting job that fell through) The 083's it uses are not nearly as bright as the 183 emitters.

OK, sounds good. Drop me a PM when you get it done and I'll see how much better it is than the HDS High CRI which Henry just said is delayed until next week.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

In the meantime, I did order that HDS High CRI model last night.

I predict you will be very happy with this light. I have one myself, and it's a thing of beauty.

 

[jblackwood]

Since I have at least a hundred top Incan setups, what is the best (quality) & highest CRI LED complete setup and I'll consider buying it and give you a completely objective comparison. I know about the high quality Ra model, but not sure it is necessarily the best (i.e. vs. Nichia H1 assembled into a quality 100+ "Lumen" light).

You certainly cannot use a K-Mart Everready 2D cell flashlight or stock Maglite as your comparison basis.

I totally agree with my fellow DEFT owner here. I skipped ahead of all the arguing :shakehead but did anyone ever answer LL? I'd really like one person's opinion with both kinds of lights in front of him/her. Isn't that the best way to compare two things? LuxLuthor has certainly proved that with his various side-by-side beamshots and comparisons (from which I've learned a lot, thanks btw) and his is among the first 5 names I'd consider for a test of this nature. Well? Can anyone suggest a high quality light using the Nichia H1 (or better) emitter in order to compare to one or more of LuxLuthor's incan setups (and if I know him, he'll throw in a couple of K-Mart specials too just to prove a point!). :devil:

 

[flashfiend]

Since we are comparing High CRI LED and a good incan, anyone willing and able to submit a CRI 83 3000k sst-90 (nailbender builds P60 modules with these) for the comparison? One of the things I love about my incans is that I get output and CRI. The LED I am mentioning is high output with relatively decent CRI.