I need help helping an overweight friend, please

[Monocrom]

I am not angry or upset. I just have a lot of years of experience living with a lot of overweight people. I also have spoken at length with medical professionals about the issue. (I work at a hospital.) There is no such thing as a food addiction. It is a medical impossibility. There are NO withdrawal symptoms from cutting down your intake of calories, other than being hungry....

This reminds me of the old saying, "Don't p*$$ down my back, and tell me it's raining."

I'm talking from first-hand experience. Your's is second-hand. I'm genuinely sorry for the problems you are having with your wife. But food addiction is very much real. I'm living proof of that! Nice to know that the doctors you have spoken with all agree that food addictions are not real.

(Hell, at one point in time, the U.S. government said there was no such thing as the Mafia. Ooops)!

No offense, but I'm going to go with my own personal experience, instead of a collective decision by a bunch of doctors who clearly have no clue what they're talking about.

As for symptoms, ever notice how cranky, or sometimes downright mean a Smoker becomes while trying to quit? Guess what, same thing happens with food. I have been, and seen other overweight individuals get angry as Hell, while dieting. Fat people being jolly? Not when it comes to dieting! Put Santa on a diet, and you'll end up with two evil individuals known for wearing red.

There's your symptom, and it's a big one!

 

[CodeOfLight]

This reminds me of the old saying, "Don't p*$$ down my back, and tell me it's raining."

I'm talking from first-hand experience. Your's is second-hand. I'm genuinely sorry for the problems you are having with your wife. But food addiction is very much real. I'm living proof of that! Nice to know that the doctors you have spoken with all agree that food addictions are not real.

(Hell, at one point in time, the U.S. government said there was no such thing as the Mafia. Ooops)!

No offense, but I'm going to go with my own personal experience, instead of a collective decision by a bunch of doctors who clearly have no clue what they're talking about.

As for symptoms, ever notice how cranky, or sometimes downright mean a Smoker becomes while trying to quit? Guess what, same thing happens with food. I have been, and seen other overweight individuals get angry as Hell, while dieting. Fat people being jolly? Not when it comes to dieting! Put Santa on a diet, and you'll end up with two evil individuals known for wearing red.

There's your symptom, and it's a big one!

..and what you are saying is that the "crotchetyness" causes you to lose your self control, and eat the food. I still assert that this is a lack of self control. Nothing more. Saying that "It's not me, it's the food addiciton" is simply a means of avoiding having to control yourself. It is a rationalization of the unhealthy behaviour. You are the one responsible to limit your calorie intake. You will not go into convulsions, get the chills, or dt's from cutting back calorie intake. You cannot die from cutting back the calorie intak to 2/3 or less of what you were eating. It's just that you really, really don't want to and will use any excuse to not have to.

 

[Monocrom]

..and what you are saying is that the "crotchetyness" causes you to lose your self control, and eat the food. I still assert that this is a lack of self control. Nothing more. Saying that "It's not me, it's the food addiciton" is simply a means of avoiding having to control yourself. It is a rationalization of the unhealthy behaviour. You are the one responsible to limit your calorie intake. You will not go into convulsions, get the chills, or dt's from cutting back calorie intake. You cannot die from cutting back the calorie intak to 2/3 or less of what you were eating. It's just that you really, really don't want to and will use any excuse to not have to.

It's like saying, "Cats are mythical creatures. They don't exist!"

My response.....

Some folks only believe what they can see with their own two eyes. It isn't always so simple. Electricty is real, but how many folks have seen it flow from out of their walls?

 

[CodeOfLight]

It's like saying, "Cats are mythical creatures. They don't exist!"

My response.....

Some folks only believe what they can see with their own two eyes. It isn't always so simple. Electricty is real, but how many folks have seen it flow from out of their walls?

That is a complete non sequitur. It is not at all like saying anything of the sort. Electricity flow can be measured and quantified. Addictive substances are called as such because of a biochemical basis in measurable, testable characteristics. Food is not one of them. Niether is water, air, or vitamins.

 

[Monocrom]

That is a complete non sequitur. It is not at all like saying anything of the sort. Electricity flow can be measured and quantified. Addictive substances are called as such because of a biochemical basis in measurable, testable characteristics. Food is not one of them. Niether is water, air, or vitamins.

Can you see electricity? (And I don't mean lightening in the night sky).

You can measure and quantify weight-gain over a period of time as well. But my point is, not everything is clearly visible to the naked eye.

People who get to the point of being over 1,000 pounds, being bed-ridden, being not able to physically even walk out of their bedrooms because they can no longer fit through the door.... Do you honestly think that's a conscious choice? Something so simple as finding comfort in food? A simple case of a lack of will power?

The fact that such sad examples of humanity even exist, that is proof right there that food addictions exist. The very fact that such individuals even exist at all, that's proof. Do you honestly think those people are happy or that they don't even care that they have to use their bedrooms as toilets; since they can't even go to the bathroom? How many rational people say to themselves, "I've decided to gain a few hundred pounds cause I'm sick of being able to walk. And I think I'll use my bedroom for everything from eating to taking a $#^t."

Someone like that is either addicted, or insane. So which is it?

 

[jtr1962]

The problem really isn't food addiction perse. Rather, it's lack of activity. Everyone has a certain amount of food they feel satisfied consuming. For an average individual it's probably on the order of 3000 to 4000 calories daily. Any less and they will have cravings for more food. Now this was not a problem when people had physical jobs and walked to work. They easily burned up this many calories and more. The real problem is the so-called poison lifestyle we have these days. Most jobs force you to be sedentary for 8 to 12 hours per day whether you want to or not. Few places in the country offer any alternative to get to work but the automobile. Hence no opportunity to burn calories there. Running errands in most places is done by, you guessed it, the automobile. And even much of our entertainment is sedentary. TV, computers, movies, concerts-all are largely passive. Many people even let gardeners take care of their lawns for them instead of doing the work themselves! It takes a strong person to pull themselves away from all that. And only a fortunate few live in places where they can get exercise in the course of running their errands.

Given all of the above, it's no wonder we have an obesity epidemic. We're focusing on the wrong side of the equation. Nobody is ever going to feel satisfied long term consuming the 2000 to 2500 daily calories needed to stay thin with today's sedentary lifestyles. We simply need to integrate more activity into our daily lives. Abandoning an auto-centric suburban lifetstyle would be a good start, but that's a sea change which will take years. Eliminating some conveniences such as dishwashers, washing machines, dryers, food blenders, etc. would definitely help if a person can't bring themselves to exercise just for its own sake. Doing more of the chores around home (i.e. gardening, painting, electrical, plumbing, roofing, etc.) instead of hiring people is another possibility. Aim to burn those 4000 calories daily, and you can eat until you're satisfied. Until the human body evolves to adjust to a more sedentary lifestyle fact is we're going to be fat unless we find ways to be more active.

Maybe the food cravings dieters speak of are really just a call for more activity to burn the calories their bodies tell them they need. It's not food addiction-it's really addiction to lack of activity. I even saw it in myself. I gained weight not because I ate more, but because my cycling gradually dropped for about 3500 miles annually to as low as 500. I'm working to get it back up to at least 3000. I did 900 miles just since the beginning of July which is a good start. I'm sure the weight will come off without changing a thing as I reach my mileage goals. Figuring roughly 65 calories per mile at the speeds I go, my cycling deficit represented close to 200,000 calories per year that I didn't burn. That should have represented an annual weight gain of 55 pounds. Fact is I probably reduced my food consumption slightly to compensate for the lower activity, and my heavier body required a bit more calories even resting, because I didn't gain 55 pounds a year. Rather, my new weight setpoint seemed to stabilize at about 30 pounds higher. However, the fact remains that decreased activity caused the weight gain. I have nobody to blame for that but myself. I chose an unhealthy lifestyle over a healthier one.

 

[jtr1962]

People who get to the point of being over 1,000 pounds, being bed-ridden, being not able to physically even walk out of their bedrooms because they can no longer fit through the door.... Do you honestly think that's a conscious choice? Something so simple as finding comfort in food? A simple case of a lack of will power?

Past the point of being bedridden, the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the person's caretaker. Why bring a 500 pound bedridden person so much food that they balloon to 1000 pounds? Let the person scream all they want, but if I were in such a situation all they would get from me is a subsistence diet. So I ask, why do others enable this type of behavoir? Yes, it is indeed a lack of willpower here, but not on the part of the overweight person. I can understand a food addiction. I just can't understand someone else helping to satisfy that addiction.

 

[mdocod]

short answer,
apples, celery, fish, chicken, broccoli, oats, grains.

long answer:
rapid weight gain COMBINED with falling asleep randomly and general fatigue is a BIG FLASHING SIGN that reads: "thyroid problem."
Your friend should see a doctor about the issue, blood tests are required, any physician reading this would see those 2 major factors linked and want blood tests to confirm or rule it out quickly.

 

[djblank87]

short answer,
apples, celery, fish, chicken, broccoli, oats, grains.

long answer:
rapid weight gain COMBINED with falling asleep randomly and general fatigue is a BIG FLASHING SIGN that reads: "thyroid problem."
Your friend should see a doctor about the issue, blood tests are required, any physician reading this would see those 2 major factors linked and want blood tests to confirm or rule it out quickly.

I just recently started taking medication for my Thyroid cause as my doctor advised me, "It is really Not working at all". Now, I used to weigh over 325 pounds and have dropped 90 plus pounds in the past few months due to eating right and working my butt off like a mad man.

Now, as far as a person who is over weight not going threw DT's when slowing there intake of food/calories I have to digress with that. I only work in a hospital and am not a medical professional at all but as people know that have seen DT's from drugs and drinking releated issue they are pretty nasty to watch a person go threw them.

The same goes for an over-weight person, when they stop eating as much there DT's could be depression which is a problem. So while not on the books as an offical symptom it still is a problem.

In my opinion and only my opinion, you have to get out and do things and I'm not just talking about walking, I mean use your body to do something that pushes you harder than walking would. Run, ride a bike, stair step, there are plenty of things that one could do.

I used to make up all kinds of reasons about how I was to busy, or worked to much to do anything. :thumbsdow total lie and it only made me fatter.

There are reasons that people can not lose weight due to medical conditons, no question there. But if you do not have a medical condition and are held back buy nothing more than you refuse to go out and change your life, then the only person you are being un-true to is yourself.

Get motivated, work really hard, eat right and the true you will show. :thumbsup:

 

[spinecho]

to codeoflight

There are many definitions of addiction.

And, in fact, according to one of the classic definitions, one can be "addicted" to food. (see below) Furthermore, whether or not "food addiction" should be included as a diagnosis in the DSM V is under debate.

So, you may have your opinion, but there are many people out there with a lot of experience in mental illness who are likely to disagree with you.

--------------------------------------------
Morse & Flavin (1992)

Morse & Flavin's (1992) definition of addiction represents the one traditionally utilized by treatment centers and substance abuse counselors. It is very good and touches all of the bases. Published in The Journal of the American Medical Association (Vol. 68, No. 8), Morse & Flavin defined addiction thusly (paraphrased for simplicity):

Addiction is a primary, progressive, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by impaired control over use of the substance, preoccupation with the substance, use of the substance despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

I do not care WHAT kind of a "hormone imbalance" you have, you CAN eat little enough to maintain ANY given weight................Yes, things really ARE that simple.

I'm afraid you're wrong. The human body is a very complex machine with many things that must happen properly, in the proper order, to maintain health. All of this can go wrong.

Take my own case for an example. A couple years back I got in a motorcycle crash and got messed up pretty badly, couldn't do much in the way of exercise. Then eat less, you say? I have blood sugar problems that require me to eat around 400 calories immediately after waking up, and every two hours that I'm awake afterward. To do otherwise could kill me. This is not crying wolf or trying to gain sympathy, but a real danger. I've woken up in the back of an ambulance several times to find out that my wife using a glucagen pack was the only reason I woke up at all. That is the amount that I must eat, regardless of activity level. While injured it was impossible to exercise, so I gained weight. As I recovered I spent long hours lifting weights, riding an exercise bike(Prefer a real bike, but until I'm sure my fubar'd hip won't give out on me when I'm miles from home that won't be happening.), and drinking lots of cold water. I'm now at a healthy weight, but eating less was definitely not an option.

This is just my own experience, surely there are other medical conditions which would cause weight gain.

:buddies:

 

[IcantC]

Take him with you for a drive to a secluded area, ask him to get out and check the tire. Once he steps out, drive off and let him walk 10 miles home.

Repeat as necessary

 

[Pydpiper]

Take him with you for a drive to a secluded area, ask him to get out and check the tire. Once he steps out, drive off and let him walk 10 miles home.

Repeat as necessary

That's funny! However, I don't think it would work the second time.

As a small update, I did confront him and he accepted the offer, he has been hunting for the past 4 days, hours of walking every day, more walking and talking than anything.. We have made terrific progress in our already solid friendship and things are looking up.
As far as him needing attention, I would probably have to vote no on that one, and for avoiding food or places where it is common is also unlikely, his business is geared around the food service industry, matter of fact every person on the face of the earth is familiar with his company.

Just thought I would jump in here for a moment and let those who offered support to me in the confrontation, although I doubt he has lost any weight the door has now been opened to me to give my opinion where I think it is appropriate. I had lunch with his wife yesterday and she is very pleased with his recent outdoor activity.
Thank you all who supported me supporting him :wave:

 

[Monocrom]

The business your friend is in.... It's McDonald's; isn't it. :lolsign: