Is Energizer trying to kill rechargeable batteries? They're sure trying.

[Mr Happy]

If I'm still pissed tomorrow I might write a letter to Target corporate suggesting they start carrying Eneloop and Centura instead of Energizer, and maybe offer a decent charger as well.

Target has previously carried better quality chargers, but in common with other retail stores in the USA they have most likely found such items sit on the rack gathering dust. Consumers are only interested in the lowest price and expensive items don't sell. If you look in retail stores today you will find most chargers are of the inexpensive, slow, overnight variety. This is the only merchandise that moves.

 

[idleprocess]

Target has previously carried better quality chargers, but in common with other retail stores in the USA they have most likely found such items sit on the rack gathering dust. Consumers are only interested in the lowest price and expensive items don't sell. If you look in retail stores today you will find most chargers are of the inexpensive, slow, overnight variety. This is the only merchandise that moves.

Specialty retailers are where an exception to this rule is to be found. I've found that larger electronics stores as a general rule carry a far wider variety of merchandise simply because they have so much more space to fill and this is best done with variety of quality in addition to variety of brands. While one most likely won't find this year's über hobbyist charger at, say, Fry's, one stands an excellent chance of sourcing something far superior to a 2-channel series-parallel timed charger that will likely melt itself and/or the cells down after a few dozen cycles.

 

[StorminMatt]

Speaking of Fry's, I NEVER understood their battery aisle. They have TONS of Tenergy products. LOTS AND LOTS of alkaline batteries. And quite a bit of weird, oddball stuff by Tenergy. I'm talking AA Nicads, some low current 14500 LiFePO4 solar batteries, miscellaneous 18650 and 26650 Li-Ion batteries with and without tabs, and a set with two RCR123 batteries with a charger. In other words, stuff people are not likely to buy. But when it comes to NiMH batteries, FORGET IT! For all the Tenergy stuff you see, you won't find a single Premium or Centura battery. They are excused with AA and AAA batteries, since they already have Duraloops. But do you think they would stock, say C or D Centuras? NOOOOO! Instead, they have a bunch of AA Nicads and 14500 LiFePO4 batteries that few people will EVER think of buying.

 

[idleprocess]

Speaking of Fry's, I NEVER understood their battery aisle. They have TONS of Tenergy products. LOTS AND LOTS of alkaline batteries. And quite a bit of weird, oddball stuff by Tenergy. I'm talking AA Nicads, some low current 14500 LiFePO4 solar batteries, miscellaneous 18650 and 26650 Li-Ion batteries with and without tabs, and a set with two RCR123 batteries with a charger. In other words, stuff people are not likely to buy. But when it comes to NiMH batteries, FORGET IT! For all the Tenergy stuff you see, you won't find a single Premium or Centura battery. They are excused with AA and AAA batteries, since they already have Duraloops. But do you think they would stock, say C or D Centuras? NOOOOO! Instead, they have a bunch of AA Nicads and 14500 LiFePO4 batteries that few people will EVER think of buying.

Yeah, their selection is certainly an exercise in stir-fried random, but the lack of high-cap C/D cells is somewhat understandable since the general public is unwilling to pay the price premium they require. Also, with all things lithium being the sekzi thing in batteries right now, it's no surprise that's where a lot of the variety is with 18650's, R123A, even LiFePO4 in 12v SLA form-factors.

 

[mccririck]

Most people don't have fancy charger`s that can handle 10.000mah+ capacity's though most can handle 2500mah fine with their low charge rates, that is why the D cells have such a low capacity so they can get a reliable charge termination with capacity's any higher than 2500mah the charger might miss termination, it`s not a rip off unless they are extortionately priced.

John.

I dont agree. For one thing they are expensive, and secondly you could just use adaptors if you're happy with that capacity. And if people want rechargeable D cells they'll either have a suitable charger or will need to buy one.

In the UK Lidl sell NiMH D cells 4500mAh - £2.99 for two. Duracell and Energizer are being pathetic.

 

[mccririck]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Dt7coMExL.jpg


Image tags removed see Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images. Please host on an image site, Imageshack or similar and repost – Thanks Norm


:shakehead

 

[TinderBox (UK)]

Yeah, i live next to a Lidl store, i use to buy their low-discharge AA, red Tronic brand, but for some reason they stopped selling pre-charged battery`s i dont know why, all they sell now is Tronic standard nimh battery`s

John.

I dont agree. For one thing they are expensive, and secondly you could just use adaptors if you're happy with that capacity. And if people want rechargeable D cells they'll either have a suitable charger or will need to buy one.

In the UK Lidl sell NiMH D cells 4500mAh - £2.99 for two. Duracell and Energizer are being pathetic.

 

[mccririck]

Yeah, i live next to a Lidl store, i use to buy their low-discharge AA, red Tronic brand, but for some reason they stopped selling pre-charged battery`s i dont know why, all they sell now is Tronic standard nimh battery`s

John.

The last time they had the green LSD was last year about Christmas time. I'm hoping they get them back in soon. I'll be buying up their C and D cells.

 

[N8N]

My previous experience with rechargeable batteries was many years ago, and quite poor. After reading about batteries on this forum, and also losing some devices to leaking alkaline batteries, I am thinking more and more about moving back towards rechargeables. My biggest concern with switching to rechargeables is making sure that I don't ruin the devices by using higher voltage and/or current rechargeables in a device that was designed around the performance characteristics of alkalines. I would be looking at AA, AAA, and D sizes primarily.

I don't see that as being a concern when talking about replacing alkalines with NiMH. Alkaline is nominal 1.5V and NiMH is nominal 1.2V so the NiMH actually runs at a lower voltage. Yes, NiMH has lower internal resistance theoretically for higher max current capacity, but a device will only draw what it draws, current in use is based on the device, not the battery. The only time the internal resistance of the battery becomes relevant is when we're talking about super high powered flashlights or other ultra high current draw devices, but again, low internal battery resistance shouldn't have any ill effects on a device designed for alkalines.

What *is* a possiblity, and one that I've seen, is in a device with a low battery warning, e.g. a digital camera, the lower voltage of a NiMH may cause the device to report low battery and/or shut down when there is still plenty of charge left in the cells. So, there is a possibility that the NiMH may just not work well... but they still won't damage your device. That's the only time I've had an issue with NiMH and that particular camera was supposed to be able to use NiMH OK, I really think that the camera was defective but Nikon didn't want to deal with it (was a cheap point and shoot) another possibility was at the time I was using a cheap Energizer brand charger that I bought in a store somewhere, it might not have been charging up my cells properly, who knows.

 

[HKJ]

Alkaline is nominal 1.5V and NiMH is nominal 1.2V so the NiMH actually runs at a lower voltage.

With flashlight NiMH will usual run at a higher voltage most of the time (Check my AA battery comparison), but it is very seldom it will give any problems with a flashlight.

 

[mccririck]

Yeah I've never had any problems with NiMH in a flashlight. They tend to not be so bright as alkaline to start off with but the alkaline voltage sags very quickly in a flashlight whereas the NiMH can keep supplying decent output for much longer.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello N8N,

Keep in mind that the voltage rating for Alkaline and NiMh cells are under different conditions.

Alkaline cells are rated 1.5 volts for a new cell and under open circuit conditions.

NiMh cells are rated 1.2 volts under load.

In actual use a cell is under load so to get a comparison you need to review a test graph that shows the Alkaline cell under load to see if its voltage exceeds the NiMh cell.

Tom

 

[Wrend]

...but a device will only draw what it draws, current in use is based on the device, not the battery. The only time the internal resistance of the battery becomes relevant is when we're talking about super high powered flashlights or other ultra high current draw devices, but again, low internal battery resistance shouldn't have any ill effects on a device designed for alkalines.

...

I agree that NiMH cells should be more than fine in general as a replacement for alkaline cells, but I just wanted to point out that the performance and electrochemical characteristics of a battery can very much effect the current that it is pushing through a circuit. Current (in a basic circuit) is proportional to the resistance of the circuit (which includes the internal resistance of a battery) and the voltage of the cell(s).

It is very much incorrect and potentially dangerous to say and think that a device will only "draw" what it "draws" as this is pretty much actually completely backwards from how electricity works.

For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law

...

Anyway, yes. I've pretty much replaced all my alkaline cells with Eneloops. The only alkaline cells I've bought in the last several years have been ones that unfortunately came with different electronic devices, or for others that aren't interested in using anything else. My wife did mistakenly pick up a pack of alkaline AAs a few months ago though... Yeah, she should know better (since we have extra unused alkaline cells anyway), but what'll you do?:shrug:

 

[hopkins]

The D-cell sleeve conversion for Ni-mH AA cells is simple and works. I use them in a big mag-lite.

The D-cell type is curious. Probably just some marketing people trying for change and generate new sales.

decades ago I bought 2 rechargeable D-cells which died. cut one open and it had a tiny sub-aaa
cell soldered in the mostly empty volume of the D-cell. think they were from Radio Shack >circa 1980?

 

[mccririck]

The D-cell sleeve conversion for Ni-mH AA cells is simple and works. I use them in a big mag-lite.

The D-cell type is curious. Probably just some marketing people trying for change and generate new sales.

decades ago I bought 2 rechargeable D-cells which died. cut one open and it had a tiny sub-aaa
cell soldered in the mostly empty volume of the D-cell. think they were from Radio Shack >circa 1980?

lol

What do you mean by D-cell sleeve conversion?

 

[Mr Floppy]

decades ago I bought 2 rechargeable D-cells which died. cut one open and it had a tiny sub-aaa
cell soldered in the mostly empty volume of the D-cell. think they were from Radio Shack >circa 1980?

I thought this was old news?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?240426-Energizer-quot-D-quot-Battery-Exposed

 

[N8N]

lol

What do you mean by D-cell sleeve conversion?

I'm assuming he means the single cell adapters like Sanyo sells for Eneloops, same concept as the parallel adapters we were discussing earlier except only one AA or AAA cell is used to replace each larger cell. Very much like the energizer D cell that prompted this thread but it's clear what you're doing so there's no surprise from the reduced capacity.

 

[N8N]

The D-cell sleeve conversion for Ni-mH AA cells is simple and works. I use them in a big mag-lite. Reply With Quote

The D-cell type is curious. Probably just some marketing people trying for change and generate new sales.

decades ago I bought 2 rechargeable D-cells which died. cut one open and it had a tiny sub-aaa
cell soldered in the mostly empty volume of the D-cell. think they were from Radio Shack >circa 1980?

Historically, the D cell is on of the oldest still in wide use today. The smaller cells weren't much use until later, although wikipedia says 1909 for AAs and 1911 for AAAs which is earlier than I would have expected. I wonder what they were used for back then?

 

[N8N]

I agree that NiMH cells should be more than fine in general as a replacement for alkaline cells, but I just wanted to point out that the performance and electrochemical characteristics of a battery can very much effect the current that it is pushing through a circuit. Current (in a basic circuit) is proportional to the resistance of the circuit (which includes the internal resistance of a battery) and the voltage of the cell(s).

It is very much incorrect and potentially dangerous to say and think that a device will only "draw" what it "draws" as this is pretty much actually completely backwards from how electricity works.

How so? if a device is designed to work on one voltage, and a lower voltage is applied to it, then if it is a purely resistive load, it will follow Ohm's law and actually draw *less* current. In the instance of e.g. a regulated LED driver module, it will draw more current, but only what is needed to provide the desired current through the LED. Let's say you have an old 2-cell incan flashlight with a 3W bulb in it, so that's a current of 1A @ 3V or an effective resistance of 3 ohms. The internal resistance of the two cells makes a negligible contribution to the resistance of the circuit as a whole... production variations in bulb filaments probably have more to do with the life of the bulb than does internal resistance of the cells. (I picked that example because a flashlight with more cells would operate at a higher voltage and therefore have a proportionally higher resistance bulb filament for the same light output)

Additionally, any device that is able to be powered by a wall wart should be able to accept straight DC voltage of its nominal rating with no effective external resistance without issue.

I'm trying, but I can't think of a common example where the internal resistance of the cells would be in any way relevant.

Anyway, yes. I've pretty much replaced all my alkaline cells with Eneloops. The only alkaline cells I've bought in the last several years have been ones that unfortunately came with different electronic devices, or for others that aren't interested in using anything else. My wife did mistakenly pick up a pack of alkaline AAs a few months ago though... Yeah, she should know better (since we have extra unused alkaline cells anyway), but what'll you do?:shrug:

and that was my point, they are pretty much a drop in replacement for AA or AAA cells 90+ percent of the time.

 

[N8N]

I thought this was old news?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?240426-Energizer-quot-D-quot-Battery-Exposed

Maybe it is, I wasn't even aware that energizer made rechargeable Cs and Ds until I saw them in that one Target.

For the "#1 selling rechargeable brand in the world" the sure aren't trying to get their whole product line out there.

But as badly as they suck, perhaps it's no surprise they're not selling.