it's an absolute BARGAIN !!!

[XeRay]

So, can we expect to get the Xerays in a "few months"? And if so, what will be the cost?

I'm looking forward to it!

I want a light with the durability of the Beast/Hellfire, but with real world pricing.

Bill

My lips are sealed until we unveil it on our website.

 

[BVH]

Dan, is this the 85 Watt BBB (Boosted Barn Burner) I've been waiting for? IF so, sign me up! I'll gladly accept the 750 hour lamp life in exchange for more lumens.

 

[LuxLuthor]

luxluthor,

You have numerous good points :thumbsup: . I would like to say there is a difference between my saying single unit light prices need to be high in order to have room for tiered pricing agreements and my saying these lights are necessarily worth their high single unit prices. I have a very unique need that causes me to look at the Polarion X1 and if another light comes by that is just as packable and tough at a significantly lower price before I have the funds for and X1 then I will get it.
Of course MBC is only six months away and I NEED to start saving for it too even more then I need and X1 .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:

Honestly, any of these companies can charge whatever they want, for whatever reasons...and starting out high so you can sell at the anticipated fair market price after quantity discounting is about the best justification I have read. It has the implication that their actual anticipated volume price is 50-60% of single retail pricing....which puts them (SF & Polarion) into a more reasonable competitive price range.

My arguments were directed towards those that would say the single unit retail prices (of SF & Polarion) were worth every penny...and especially when Government ("anonomous") buying was a part of their justification....like "it's ok to charge high prices, since the sugar daddy government is paying for it, and thinks they need it."

Often times, the military/government really does not need many of the high price items they buy. FEMA was sure it would need the 300,000 Katrina trailers that it spent $5 Billion on, despite the fact that so many sit unused in locations that can't use them Likewise, I am quite sure if you did not have the funds, that you would somehow manage to find a cheaper alternative for your personal outdoor activities, and you would make it work just fine. As far as I can tell, almost none of these high performance lights are really a necessity that justifies their high prices.

My lips are sealed until we unveil it on our website.

Loose lips sink....well you are now being very smart. I personally know of two Navy contracts that were cancelled by my C.O. because news of the pending deal was leaked...and it would have dramatically affected the stock/net worth of a particular small company, which another part of the Government (The SEC) frowns upon.

:goodjob:

 

[XeRay]

Dan, is this the 85 Watt BBB (Boosted Barn Burner) I've been waiting for? IF so, sign me up! I'll gladly accept the 750 hour lamp life in exchange for more lumens.

Sorry to disappoint but, that is not "currently" in the offing.

 

[Mr Ted Bear]

Three storys (easily), and 40 to 50 yards down range. The BEAST was tossed by KC (Sasha's hubby) frrom where we gathered by the side of the road, and landed on the asphalt. The were enought G forces, that the nipples on the ends of the batteries were flatten, and hence the light stopped working , but otherwise the light worked fine.

 

[LuxLuthor]

The were enought G forces, that the nipples on the ends of the batteries were flatten, and hence the light stopped working, but otherwise the light worked fine.

Good thing you weren't in combat....you would have been another dead soldier...ROFL !! (JK'ing).

Seriously, I would love to have seen a video of that abuse....I can feel myself recoiling just thinking of that level of abuse with any light. It seems a little bit like lighting a cigar with a $100 bill.

 

[bwaites]

Check out the Tigerlight video!

http://www.tigerlight.net/DynamicFiles/Video/TigerLightDurabilityLg.mov

Bill

 

[mtbkndad]

Honestly, any of these companies can charge whatever they want, for whatever reasons...and starting out high so you can sell at the anticipated fair market price after quantity discounting is about the best justification I have read. It has the implication that their actual anticipated volume price is 50-60% of single retail pricing....which puts them (SF & Polarion) into a more reasonable competitive price range.

My arguments were directed towards those that would say the single unit retail prices (of SF & Polarion) were worth every penny...and especially when Government ("anonomous") buying was a part of their justification....like "it's ok to charge high prices, since the sugar daddy government is paying for it, and thinks they need it."

Often times, the military/government really does not need many of the high price items they buy. FEMA was sure it would need the 300,000 Katrina trailers that it spent $5 Billion on, despite the fact that so many sit unused in locations that can't use them Likewise, I am quite sure if you did not have the funds, that you would somehow manage to find a cheaper alternative for your personal outdoor activities, and you would make it work just fine. As far as I can tell, almost none of these high performance lights are really a necessity that justifies their high prices.


Loose lips sink....well you are now being very smart. I personally know of two Navy contracts that were cancelled by my C.O. because news of the pending deal was leaked...and it would have dramatically affected the stock/net worth of a particular small company, which another part of the Government (The SEC) frowns upon.

:goodjob:

I get what you are saying now and understand. Regarding myself, in reality my Mag85 with extra batteries does real well as a backup emergency light and it is much more compact. I also carry a Night Ops 9V Falcata with extra CR123A's in my pack and then there is my bike light and I usually carry an extra battery pack for it when riding solo at night. Wayne at Amondotech got me to try a RC 7.2V subC pack and it works as well as the C packs I have so I can actually carry two extras and have close to 12 hours of light on low total. I just want to have the power of a good 35 watt HID in my pack for emergency purposes. Overkill yes, absolutely needed no.
I like what Edna said in the Incredibles "Luck favors the prepared".
My posts have been focusing on the fact that if people like me want lights like X1's or Helioses or Beasts, or Hellfighter's there is a premium to be paid for buying just one since these companies have clearly set up their prices to sell to their primary customers at "below retail" or "special group or volume discounts". They cannot justify the claim that their government or corporate clients are getting a discount if some people are not being charged the full price.
I personally would rather by one X1 at full price then 10 at a substantial discount that I would likely not be able to disclose and end up with nine HID's I do not need.

Once again I appreciate your input in this matter.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:

 

[LuxLuthor]

Check out the Tigerlight video!

http://www.tigerlight.net/DynamicFiles/Video/TigerLightDurabilityLg.mov

Bill

Ha Ha Ha! OMG...that was amazing. I said each time: "NO! He's not about to drop/throw/bat/run over that light...what is he some kind of stupid idiot?"

Man, that is some entertaining abuse...and makes quite a good case for a light that even John Kerry's soldier cannot screw up!!! BRAVO!

:rock:

 

[tvodrd]

Three storys (easily), and 40 to 50 yards down range. The BEAST was tossed by KC (Sasha's hubby) frrom where we gathered by the side of the road, and landed on the asphalt. The were enought G forces, that the nipples on the ends of the batteries were flatten, and hence the light stopped working , but otherwise the light worked fine.

PK tossed it first, and it remained lit after impact. KC, an L.E.O., launched it towards L.E.O. (Low Earth Orbit,) and a battery replacement was required.
(Fondling mine. :naughty: )
The lamp 'sploded on my Maxabeam at my Thanksgiving campout and a discounted replacement on ebay cost me $234! I doubt it had 2 hours on it! I lack a clue as to Beastie's warranty with respect to the lamp. Premature incan failures seem to be liberally replaced.

Larry

 

[windstrings]

Sorry to disappoint but, that is not "currently" in the offing.

I don't know if it would be true in this case, but knowing the way friction curves work.... Heat would be even more a concern......

 

[windstrings]

I'm constantly amazed at human nature. We will squabble and fuss and fight over 20.00 bucks on a light that cost 70.00 bucks and we think it should only be worth 50.00, yet we will wet our pants over a light that cost 4800.00 even though there are other lights that do better jobs for less than half or even 1/3rd?

Another example that emotion overules reason.... so folks.. if you can sell your lights by evoking strong emotional feelings.. people will sell and mortgage thier homes to buy it.....as long as your light evokes a stronger emotion than having a place to live of course!

A prime example... remember "welfare cadillacs?" People were willing to not have a home just so they could own one "since they couldn't afford both" and have the image and wow factor with thier peers!

The US government is a foolish sucker.. because they are spending someone elses money.. "ours". They buy based on emotion too .... not necessarily need or practicle use. I suppose I would too if I had a blank checkbook to buy anything I wanted without expense to myself.

If a manufacturer can tap into that market... then good for them.. but it won't be me that makes the purchase!

Car purchases are made everyday on emotion without reason or common sense too... there's a reason the saleman wants you to focus only on the looks and the sound of the stereo and the way the car makes you "feel" while turning the corners.. yea baby yeaa!.....

I can understand a reckless government with an unlimited expense account, but what "person" would really spend 4800.00 of thier own money on a light when there are so many better options? if so, I either wish I had their money or hope I don't have thier brains!

Why not spend 6500.00 for the Hellfire that has less lumens than the X990 for 399.00 and the Xeray for 795.00 "CPF price" and the polarions, Helios lines which are around the 2K range? just how far does an extra 4000 - 5000.00 dollars go for quality?.....

Who cares whats the cost if your the federal government right?.... I know they don't pay those prices, but someone does....... is it reaaaallly a bargain?????

Whats a bargain again anyway.. I think I must have lost the meaning somewhere?

 

[LuxLuthor]

Windy, what a troublemaker you are !!! LOL!!! You don't see me ruffling any feathers like that!! Ha Ha!

When I think back on my last car deal....I'm still mad at how I let myself get snookered by those sneaky salesman playing on my emotions!!!

 

[mtbkndad]

We live in a truly strange system. I know people who would rather by an item for $1500 that has a "Retail" price of $3000 then another product of similar quality for $1300 that has a "Retail" price of $1600. Why, because they "Save" more with the first item :thinking: . Often a particular brand name is attached to these "savings".
Sometimes that brand name is worth the difference and sometimes it is not. Either way, in my thinking the first option costs $200 more rather the being a $1200 larger savings.
When it comes to tools for my work, I try to research and buy the best I can and buy the right tool the first time.

If I had a need in my work that could only be fulfilled by the $4807 Surefire Beast I would find a way to get it. I don't so I won't. Now if the need was real and my work depended on the light and it would get regular use and the only way I could get one is spending $4807, then it would be worthwhile to me regardless of what it cost to make or how little others can get it for by purchasing in volume.

In reality, even my planned X1 purchase is because I REALLY like the light and it fits the requirements I have for the "high end" light I want to purchase. If I did not have a legitimate use for it I just could not justify buying it. That is why I do not have a XeRay or Polarion P1 or X990 when I already have 2 Costco HID's, 2 Amondotech Illuminators, 2 10 MCP Thors, 1 15 MCP Thor, and numerous other incan & HID lights (Not to mention all of my flashlights). All of these get regular use for different tasks and suit my needs fine.

At the same time since the X1 is not a work purchase, the real world in which I live often has unexpected expenses that cut into my discretionary spending funds. I really do NEED to show up with a Nintendo Wii for the family before I buy an X1 .


Had the X1 not been made I would still be saving for a Helios. I like the look and size of the X1 more and, unlike luxluthor am only "certified" to as far underwater as I can hold my breath :green: . The 100 ft depth rating of the X1 is serous overkill for this former lifeguard/water safety instructor that never goes near the water anymore

I also see two practical purposes for the high retail single unit prices of the Beasts, HellFighters, and on a lower scale the Helioses, X1's, and other similar lights. One was mentioned before, to give dealers substantial room to deal when making large contracts. The second is to KEEP average people FROM buying them. It seems to me, if Dan's numbers are correct and the military is getting Hellfighters for around $2,600 then, Surefire actually does not care to sell these to civilians unless the civilians are REALLY willing to make is worth their while.
This may be true of Polarion too, maybe they really do not want just any average person to be getting their lights. The price of the Helios and X1 really make it necesary for the purchasers to know what their needs are, what they want, and how the size and features of these lights will fulfill their needs in ways others will not BEFORE purchasing.
These are just my thoughts.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:

 

[windstrings]

Surefire actually does not care to sell these to civilians unless the civilians are REALLY willing to make is worth their while. :wave:

Yea. .Civilians can be a major pain in the butt! :lolsign:

 

[windstrings]

Windy, what a troublemaker you are !!! LOL!!! You don't see me ruffling any feathers like that!! Ha Ha!

When I think back on my last car deal....I'm still mad at how I let myself get snookered by those sneaky salesman playing on my emotions!!!

Ah, you caught me up to my dasterly deeds... theres a reason I keep that avatar!!!! :lolsign:

 

[NAW]

Now back to the original topic...

You want to know what a real bargain is?

Get yourself a Thor 15 Million candle power spotlight and that sucka will outhrow everything here for only $30. :laughing:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1594766&postcount=84

 

[windstrings]

Now back to the original topic...

You want to know what a real bargain is?

Get yourself a Thor 15 Million candle power spotlight and that sucka will outhrow everything here for only $30. :laughing:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1594766&postcount=84

The link you provided doesn't have a thor in it that I saw......

But I've heard different from those who have put them up against some of the HID's..... I know mine totally "killed" the 10M Thor....

 

[tanasit]

It's the Honda NSX at $85,000.00 which you can't even buy if you have the dough because they were all reserved and sold out before appearing!

This is only several times over the baseline when we talk flashlight but if you look at the wristwatch, it may be a case of ten thousands times over just to tell the time.

Why would someone buy that when they can get a maxabeam?

Im sorry... but this is like spending $80,000 for a top of the line honda accord EX while you can purchase a BMW 5 series for $50,000ish...

 

[seery]

Wasn't sure which place was better to post. Here is an update on the Beast II.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1809978#post1809978