Knife Sharpening

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raggie33

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Re: Sharpening systems

bindi i dont know how to convert usa money to aus money but did you try frogle.com its like a search engine like google but for prices but im not sure if they have good dealers on it or not froogle im not sure if this will help i sume since you are so far way it may cost more
 

bindibadgi

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Re: Sharpening systems

Yeah, I Froogled it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The cheapest I could find the sharpmaker set for was ~$43. The cheapest I could find a pair of diamond stones was ~$62. The cheapest I could find a pair of ultra fine stones (they are sold individually, unlike the diamond stones which come as a set of two) was ~18. That adds to $123, so this guy is giving me global priority shipping to Australia for about 7 bucks. That aint too bad.

Besides that, the best prices I could find (above) were not all from the same store. No store has a total as low as $120. That means that this guy (who only gave me a quote on the whole lot, not individual bits) is giving me quite a good price.
 

Codeman

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Re: Sharpening systems

[ QUOTE ]
bindibadgi said:
Yeah, I Froogled it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The cheapest I could find the sharpmaker set for was ~$43. The cheapest I could find a pair of diamond stones was ~$62. The cheapest I could find a pair of ultra fine stones (they are sold individually, unlike the diamond stones which come as a set of two) was ~18. That adds to $123, so this guy is giving me global priority shipping to Australia for about 7 bucks. That aint too bad.

Besides that, the best prices I could find (above) were not all from the same store. No store has a total as low as $120. That means that this guy (who only gave me a quote on the whole lot, not individual bits) is giving me quite a good price.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a very good price. I paid about the same for the 204, but the diamond rods were $90 and I think I paid about $45 for the ultra fine rods.

The diamond rods were more expensive because, at the time, they only did a small run. They had already been discontinued once, due to the cost, and they weren't sure they would be able to produce them for a reasonable price while maintaining a reasonable level of durability. Obviously, they did overcome the cost/quality issue, if they're availabled for $62.

You'll really appreciate having the full set. Just remember to not use a lot of force on the diamond hones, so that you don't knock the diamond off.

Do you know if the insructional video is being included? Once you get the hang of the 204, the video isn't much use, but Sal is a super nice fella and he's entertaining to see in the video.
 

Anglepoise

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Re: Sharpening systems

[ QUOTE ]
bindibadgi said:
I found one place that will sell me a Sharpmaker system, the diamond inserts and the ultra fine stones for $130 shipped global priority to me in Australia.


[/ QUOTE ]

The Sharpmaker is an excellent product when thought of as a 'touch up' devise. For its under $50.00 US price, it is a bargain.

However it is NOT a sharpening system as it is has only two choices of angles to use.

And with the purchase of the diamond rods, you are now up to the cost of the EdgePro Apex, that IS a full sharpening system with infinite angle adjustment and your choice of sharpening hones with grits from 180 to 12,000.

Also the Sharpmaker is NOT as easy to use as some seem to think.
You have to be very alert to not wiping the blade tip off the end of the rods. I have seen the tips completely rounded over by mis use.

I have both units and if I had to have only one, it would be the EdgePro every time.
 

Grox

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Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

I can't get my vg-10 spyderco caly jnr to shaving sharpness with my lansky. Got the lansky a couple of days ago and I can't get it to cut hanging paper or to shave. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I've got the one with 1000, 600, 280, 120 and 70 grit stones. I've tried a few times... nothing seems to work.

Can anyone help?
 

dano

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

The Calypso Jr can get a really (REALLY) sharp edge due to the flat grind. Unfortunately, with a fixed angle sharpening system like a Lansky (fixed meaning that you can only sharpen on the mount's predetermined angles), you'll probably have to reprofile the factory edge so it coincides with the Lansky's sharpening angles.

-dan
 

chrisse242

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

I can't get any knife razor sharp with the lansky. (only standard 3-stone set)
I use a small part of an old leather belt, glued to a piece of wood. Apply any kind of metal polish, and finish the blade freehand. Any blade will be razor sharp.

Chrisse
 

Anglepoise

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

The reason you can not get it sharp is most probably because you are re profiling and not actually 'hitting' the edge.
Get a black 'Sharpie' felt tip and coat the edge.
Now you can see exactly where the hone is rubbing, or not.
 

MoonRise

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

Well, the Lansky doesn't really get shallow enough for a real shaving sharp edge. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That said, I've used my Lansky to put a really sharp edge on multiple blades. It works quite well.

Like David said, you might not have actually fully sharpened the edge yet. The "marker on the cutting edge" trick can help you see if you actually have gotten to the edge of the blade with the stones yet, or if you are still removing the metal that's behind the edge and still have a while to go before you even get to the edge.

Remember that you are trying to shape the blade so that two planes (or surfaces for those doing a Moran rolled edge) meet at a line. That line is the cutting edge itself, everything else on the blade is just there to enable the edge to be.
 

cy

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

got no problems getting a razor edge with my lansky /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

but I need to qualify that statement. lansky is used to set profile for edge. there is no way I can maintain exact strokes each and every time to make a perfect bevel.

I find once desired bevel is set, lansky has a dificult time feathering a fine edge. so light pressure is needed towards end.

further like moonrise pointed out, one cannot truely get a razor edge without going to a thin angle.

if lansky is used as a starting base then work on towards finishing up your edge like Chrisse is doing with compound and leather strop.

personally prefer a slight sawtooth, so don't usually do the leather strop step.

these days once lansky has set bevel, finding myself hand sharpening. a few quick stokes and it's back in business.
 

Lurker

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

One technique to get a good sharpening is to hone one side of the edge (call it side A) until you raise a burr on the other side (side B) along the complete length of the edge. Then hone side B until you have raised a burr the complete length of Side A. Then remove the burr and you are done.

Being able to detect the burr is a bit of a skill, but basically it should catch on your fingernail.
 

Grox

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

Thanks for all the advice guys!

I've raised the burr and after that I tried to move to a finer stone. I then tried to progressively move to finer stones.

Hmm... I'll try using the marker and stropping the blade. I guess it's just practice and experimentation /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

chmsam

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

Okey, Dokey, this will be a little long, but here we go...

I've been a user of the Lansky system for many years and have been able to get scary sharp edges on virtually any knife I've tried. Here's what I do:

Angelpoise has the first part correct -- mark the edge with a Sharpie marker. If the ink comes off at only the top or the bottom of the edge, you have not got the angle correct. If the ink comes off along the width of the edge completely (or close enough), write down the angle you are using for later reference. Not every knife has the same angle of grind. You need to establish the angle for each knife as it relates to the Lansky (or whatever system you're using). If the maker or manufacturer uses a 22.5 degree edge and the Lansky is set up for a 20 or 25 degree edge, you'll have to make the knife fit. The Lansky is not infinitely variable.

I use diamond hones. Yep, they are not as cheap as other hones, but they work faster. You can use any of their variety of hones. In fact, most of this will apply to any sharpening system, but since consistency is critical, use the Lansky. Remember, though, you really can take off too much metal, so pay attention to what you are doing.

Start with a coarse or extra coarse hone. Examine the edge of the hone under a bright light (Gee, where can we get one of those?). I use a jewelers loupe to get a close up view but some can "eyeball it" or use a magnifying glass. Check to be sure you are sharpening all the way down to the very edge. If not, keep going until you do. You need to establish the angle and that might mean taking off what seems like a bit more of the edge than you think. Be sure to hone the edge until you get the entire edge worked 'cause if you don't you won't ever get a sharp edge. This is where most people goof it up -- they aren't patient enough. You need to so this to get the edge established, but usually you only need to use as coarse a stone as this rarely after you do it the first time.

Once you have the edge coarse honed, just repeat with progressively finer hones. Examine the edge as you go along to be sure that you are still maintaining the same angle.

Check for a "wire edge" or a burr that forms when the knife edge seems to become very sharp. What often happens is that the edge rolls over, forming a wire edge/burr. This is very shrap but quite brittle. If the knife seems to go dull very quickly, this is probably what has happened. Get rid of the wire edge by backing off the angle slightly (move the hone up one slot) and very lightly run the hone along the edge on both sides to remove the burr. Remember, you need only very light pressure and only one or two strokes to do this. Continue to hone or finish by stroping with a strop or a flat piece of cardboard to polish the edge if desired.

YMMV, but I use a fine diamond hone and then an extra fine hone (1000 grit). I finish with a Sapphire stone (2000 grit). Then I strop the blade with a leather strop that I only occasionally charge with a yellow strop paste (you do not need much). This is for an extra sharp edge.

If you don't use a lot of slicing cuts (paper, tomatoes, and the like), but use push cuts (rope, cardboard, and so forth), you do not need as sharp an edge as this. If that's the case, you don't need more than a medium fine or fine stone.

Now, as to checking how sharp the edge is, do not try to shave hair or see if it will catch your fingerprints unless you want to use up a few bandaids or get a stitch or two. Paper that you hold loosely in your free hand is much less painful. It's one of those "Don't do what I do, do what I say" things.

Remember, for safety's sake, you only need a knife that is sharp enough to cut what you need to cut. Most of us are not surgeons.

Here's some more advice, learn to use a steel and/or a strop, and you will sharpen a lot less often. Frequently knives need to have the edge realigned, and not resharpened. Why grind away your knife blade if you don't need to?

Hope this helps.
 

ZeissOEM2

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

Have been used Lansky since 1983 and no problem to get it razeor sharp. chmsam have given the info to do it .I have only used the standard Lansky sharpen system +one fine diamond.,and the last finish is done with ceramic sticks and leather .
 

cy

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

seems we are all saying the same thing. lansky is an excellent tool to sharpen with.

it's only a guide, proccess to achieve razor edge is no different from free-hand sharpening or any other proccess.

sharpen edge to generate a burr, then switch sides to gently remove that burr. past that it's your choice how fine you want to go. 2000 grit, leather strop etc.

some disadvantage of lansky:

1. cannot do custom angles with lansky, so first use usually requires removal of lots of material
2. spot clamped determinds how lansky will shape your curve, possibly damaging blade.
3. difficult to repeat exact angle set by lansky. so it's best to complete job, before removing clamp
4. clamp can scratch blade, so put several layers of masking tape on before clamping.

apex edge pro allows you to match up tool's angle with existing blade angle. but they sure are pricy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

RAF_Groundcrew

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Re: Can\'t get shaving sharp with a lansky

Sometimes you don't really want a 'thin' edge, as it will be weak when used for heavy tasks, adn may chip or fold.

I have used a lansky kit for years, and have recently bought a second set, with additonal hones (sapphire included), as soe of the original hones were wearing hollow.

I have no problem getting a super sharp edge on my spyderco knives, but it will take time the first time, as there is more metal to remove in order to shape the edge to match the Lansky angles. I sharpen all but one of my spyderco knives on the 3rd slot from the blade, and this seems to give a good result. Sharpening one sided blades such as benchmade/ emerson 970 is difficult, so I adapted a LAnsky clamp with a longer slotted piece on one side, to give the asymmetrical angles needed (the standard clamp doesn't go 'steep' enough).

When I'm using the finer final grades, I use very litle pressure, but take more care. The final stones just polish the edge, so It can take hours !!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/touche.gif
 

chmsam

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Re: Can't get shaving sharp with a lansky

As RAFgroundcrew said, thin edges will chip or break. However, that's usually a problem of trying to use the wrong tool for the job.

If you move the clamp up or down the blade, the Lansky will not damage a larger blade or change the curve. The vast majority of people don't do this, so for larger blades or curved edges there are perhaps better ways to sharpen.

The Lansky system is best used when yo want to maintain a consistant angle and, like myself, find that "muscle memory" doesn't work as well as you'd like to do that. YMMV, but I simply find that the time spent to set up the clamp and guide rods is less than the time I spend trying to get my grip on the knife just right for using bench stones.
 

Grox

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Re: Can't get shaving sharp with a lansky

Thanks for all the advice guys! I'm still learning and when I get time I'm going to go back and slowly sharpen the knife :)

When I look at the reflection of a light on the knife blade, I can see that my edge isn't perfectly smooth lengthwise and that there are still micro-serrations on the blade edge. I assume that the ideal edge would be perfectly reflective at one angle (to the light) only and that the edge would be perrrrrfectly smooth.

One thing I really would like to do would be to learn how to strop and to use steels.

I'm just getting into knives now and I'm really loving them! My family and friends aren't into knives so its pretty hard having learn all this off just written materials on the net. I find that it's difficult for me to appreciate how to do things until I see them done and do them myself.

Cheers
Grox
 
M

murdock47

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Re: Can't get shaving sharp with a lansky

I never could sharpen any knife worth beans until I picked-up a Spyderco Sharpmaker. Now I'm sharpening dull knives hair-popping sharp!

Murdock
 
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